Talk me in or out of a Lubrisizer!!!

[rbertalotto]

I'm shooting Cowboy Action and I'm going through about 500 boolits a week.

Pan lubing is really getting old at this rate.

Do I want a lubrisizer?

I know everyone on here recommends STAR, but will a Lyman or RCBS serve me well?

I have a bunch of $$ in PayPal......anyone know of a dealer in these things that takes PayPal?

Titan Reloading does, but they only sell LEE products.

[leftiye]

I'd get a star for speedy sizing. They show up on eVil bAy fairly often. RCBS and lyman sizers are a little slower, but it might not quite cripple you to do 500. I suspect the lyman and RCBS are easier to set up. Maybe buy those painted boolits and have them pre sized. That's Hawksbury River's Blackhawk bullets. See thread on paint on epoxy polyester lubes.

[finishman2000]

buy a star or better yet a ballisti-cast and you'll be set for life. buy once cry once. if you shoot alot the lyman or rcbs won't cut it. i still have one of each but i haven't touched them in years and will only use them when i start casting for my 30-30 sometime in the near future.

[Reload3006]

hands down the star especially if you haven't got dies yet. The star is by far the best on the market. and if your doing that kind of quantity you will really appreciate it. as far as pan lubing nobody needs to tell you what a messy proposition that is LOL. I have 2 lymans I also have a lot of H&I size dies so I'm kind of stuck. But if I had known then what I know now ...STAR all the way baby lOL

[imashooter2]

Cowboy boolits go slow... shoot them as cast and film lube them (LLA/JPW or Rooster Jacket). Tumble them 500 or so at a time and total touch time is under 10 minutes. That's what I do for USPSA and ICORE.

[Rayc384]

If shooting smokeless use Rooster, works for me.

[rbertalotto]

But I'm shooting Big Lube boolits with Black Powder. A Tumble Lube will not work. I DO use Lee Alox with Boron Nitrate on my smokeless 45LC loads with great success. That's easy.............But the Big Lubes and my 45-70 boolits are a huge mess and take way too much time for the number of boolits I need.

[imashooter2]

Then the Star beats the tar out of a Lyman or RCBS. Buy once, cry once.

[rbertalotto]

The Star is a thing of beauty, but the price will really make you tear up.

Nearly $500 with a heater and a punch and die..........Yikes!

[C.F.Plinker]

It takes me just under an hour and a half to lube 500 38s or 45s on my Lyman 450. YMMV. Only you can decide if the increased throughput with the Star is worth the additional money.

[runfiverun]

you try doing 500 a week on a rcbs or lyman and the crying will start.
i lubed less than 20 with a lyman and went and ordered the star,the boolit feeder,heater,and air cylinder.
i had been pan lubing and push through sizing before that.

[rbertalotto]

You all got me convinced............Just need to save a few more pennies!

[MBTcustom]

My dad used to shoot 1000 rounds of 45acp a week, and he used a Lyman 450 lube sizer. I was shooting about the same as you and I used it till I broke the screw. I made another one and kept on trucking. However, I have recently discovered 45/45/10 lube and it has changed my whole philosophy of lubing boolits. It works so well, is so fast, and so cheap, I doubt I will ever push another boolit through the old sizer. My vote would be to read up on 45/45/10 and save your money for something that actually contributes to your hobby like a new rifle or a progressive press. How about a new mold?
I have lubed all styles of boolits, both rifle and pistol, tumble lube grooves and grease grooves, 45/45/10 works for them all. I just lubed 1000 45 boolits last night, took me 10 minutes and about 20 drops of lube. I will have no leading with these boolits as they are sized over the groove diameter of my barrels.
Lube sizers are 1950's technology, smart people have come up with better, cheaper solutions since then. I would recommend you ordering a bottle of LLA from midway for $5.89, and getting some johnsons past wax from the hardware store for $6.00 as well as a small container of mineral spirits. mix them up and try them with properly sized boolits. If you get any leading, in your barrels such that it takes more than one swipe with a patch to clean the barrel of your favorite gun, then by all means, go and buy the lube-sizer.
You can thank me later.

[rbertalotto]

Are you saying that 45/45/10 will be effective with Black Powder? I've not heard of a tumble type lube that has a chance of keeping the fouling from BP in check for an entire CAS match. In fact I know of no tumble lube that will keep a BP revolver operating after one cylinder is fired.

Please advise.............Thanks!

[MBTcustom]

No, BP is a no go. I didn't read closely enough! I assumed you were using trail boss or something.
So to change my answer, I would go with the cheaper 450 or 4500 sizers unless you are able to poney up the money for the Star. I always lubed my rifle boolits pan-style because there are usually less of them and I get real picky when accuracy is on the line. For pistol, I'm after the most cost/time effective solution I can find. I would still vote for getting a used 4500 if you can find one. Pistol boolits are not picky.

[Dan Cash]

If you know how to pan lube, you would not be fussing with all the angst of lubricator/sizer machines. If you want to know how to do it, complete with pictures, PM me and I will hook you up..

[Horace]

If all i was shooting would be pistol, a star sizer is the tool.But i like to shoot rifle and like to collect molds of different types and ages which don`t always fit the bore.A Lyman/RCBS type sizer is the tool in this case.And i do like to "tinker".

Horace

[largom]

I now have 4 Lymans and 1 RCBS. I keep different caliber sizing dies in each one. I have never had the need or desire to own a Star and I have read that they can be a problem to get set up and adjusted. Most of my lubesizers were bought used and I have a lot of dies in many calibers. My total dollars invested so far would not buy a Star. Get what YOU want, thats why some drive Fords and some drive Chevy's.

Larry

[runfiverun]

if by problem adjusting you mean turning a screw [the punch depth], then i guess they are a problem...
i have been using stars for a long time now i don't keep records or measure nothin.
i have perfectly filled out lube grooves within three boolits.
i don't have a gas check seater thingy the sizer does it for me.
rifle boolits no problems.
change lubes in about 2 minutes.
and it is very fast on the revolver boolits.
no problems with lube on the bases,or doing bevel base either.
they work with pan lubing,dip lubing ,and swirl lubing too.
they will also lube/size lee tl type boolits from the sizer.

i guess it's all in what you take the time to figure out how to make work for you.

[giz189]

Yep. Speed. That is what it is all about in this fast paced world anymore. Just my .02.

[Reload3006]

the answer has to come from the individual. Lube sizers were not around in the early days so as far as smoke poles go how authentic do you want to be. how valuable is your time. For all those who bow down and worship the God of money save yours and spend it how ever you like. It is after all your money. If you want the best you will pay for it. but hey all roads lead to Rome and a hole in a target. Hopefully where you want it.

[Dan Cash]

Yep. Speed. That is what it is all about in this fast paced world anymore. Just my .02.

Sometimes one needs great bunches of bullets and ammo. There is not time to pollish primers, admire your face in the the brass reflection and reject bullets that are .00002 out of spec. You got to get er done and done now.

[Baja_Traveler]

Pan lubing used to be a messy hassle until I got my WaxMeister tool from this board. It makes pan lubing super easy now. I can easily pan lube 500 faster than running them through my RCBS sizer. All my BP rounds are as-cast, so no sizing necessary. I use the same big lube molds that you have for my Black Powder loads.

[geargnasher]

If you know how to pan lube, you would not be fussing with all the angst of lubricator/sizer machines. If you want to know how to do it, complete with pictures, PM me and I will hook you up..

I disagree, and I DO know how to pan lube and cookie-cut with ejector, etc.

The OP is pan lubing.

Rbertalotto, just get a Star. Lathesmith makes dies cheaper and to your exact or custom size if need be.

Gear

[cbrick]

I agree with runfive and Gear.

I also know how to pan lube and if I never do it again I'll be a happy camper. I can run 500 boolits through my Stars just as fast or faster than dealing with the mess of pan lubing and get zero lube on the bases or noses. If pan lubing is your thing that's fine of course but it's sure not for everyone, me included.

As for the Star being a hassle to set up is only true for those that are scared silly of the thought of spending a half hour learning something, for all others there is no problem at all.

Another reason for the Star is the nose first push through method, it is simply a more concentric method of sizing than in & out machines.

As for the cost, I have less in both of my Star's (bought used) combined than the cost of a single new Lyman or RCBS, dies and air pressure system excluded.

For some there is only one consideration and nothing else matters, is it the very cheapest I can do this? If that's your only consideration more power to ya but for the rest of us there are many more important things to consider.

Rick

[Reload3006]

LOL Pan lubing showed me how badly I needed a lubsizer. if playing in messy **** is your idea of fun by all means knock your self out. it works I have done it. I did it for years. I sure am glad I dont have to anymore. I just wish I had some one direct me to a star instead of the Lyman **** I have. But what I got works and makes me appreciate NOT Pan lubing anymore.

Heck if you dont mind playing with slimy **** get ya a jug and tumble lube do the happy boolit dance. I have to do that with my lead swaged boolits.

what is being blanked as profanity starts with a cr not sh FYI

[geargnasher]

As for the Star being a hassle to set up is only true for those that are scared silly of the thought of spending a half hour learning something, for all others there is no problem at all.

Rick

Not insinuating this is the case with anyone on this thread, but that statement about being "scared silly of the thought of spending half an hour learning something" really hit the nail squarely on the head with so many of the threads lately. It's called a "learning curve". None of this machinery is self-explanatory except maybe to the most mechanically-inclined individual. You have to RTFM, tinker with it, make some goobered-up boolits with lube all over both ends, and then learn how to correct it with adjustments the machine, it doesn't jump out of the box and onto your bench ready to make perfect boolits. It's like learning to drive, nobody's born knowing how.

Gear

[captaint]

Roy - If you're like me, you only want to do this once. So, get the Star and be happy. Should you have any problems getting set up, the kind folks here will be glad to straighten you out. My two cents... enjoy Mike

[bobthenailer]

If your shooting that much you need a STAR! PERIOD!
What do you load your ammo with a single stage press or a semi progressive press
That will answer your question ! with a star you can easyly do 1000 bullets a hour depending on how much you have to size down the bullet from cast to desired dia. , only 0 to .002 dia, if more and its harder to push through the sizer .
2 friends who were casters and were using lyman or rcbs sizers heard me talking about the star both came to my house and did a test drive with the star ! both had ther owen star in short order

[fredj338]

I like having all my bullets the same size & if I can get them lubed @ the same time, even better. Forget getting anything other than the Star/Magma IMO. Way faster & easier & that is the entire point afterall.
BTW bob, if you put an occasional lubed bullet thru the sizer, it keeps things running smoother w/ oversized bullets. 1000/hr is easily done, why I love mine. Some decry the cost, but consider a Lyman & all the nose punches ($11 each), it isn't much more for the Star & one punch.

[Rockchucker]

I haven't even received my Star yet, it shipped yesterday but I already see a pita with having to buy several dies of the same caliber due to i,2, and three lube grooves. Lathesmith and I are gonna have a long relationship it seems.

[cbrick]

I already see a pita with having to buy several dies of the same caliber due to i,2, and three lube grooves.

That's not the way it's done. Whenever you buy a die get it with three rows of holes, follow the directions on blocking the un-needed holes. When you change bullet designs simply change the holes you use.

Rick

[Rockchucker]

Rick, Magma shows a drill bit tool for removing the shot, Is that the best way or would a small punch work also?

[cbrick]

Drill bit in a very slow turning drill motor.

Rick

[Pete P]

I have a SAECO lubri-sizer. I like it better than the Lyman that I had. The reservoir is spring-loaded so you do not have to turn it as often. It will also take either a solid or hollow stick of lubricant. The price is midway between the Lyman and the Star. I would like to get the Star, perhaps later. Even better I would love to be able to apply a polymer coating to my bullets.

[heavyd]

I like having all my bullets the same size & if I can get them lubed @ the same time, even better. Forget getting anything other than the Star/Magma IMO. Way faster & easier & that is the entire point afterall.
BTW bob, if you put an occasional lubed bullet thru the sizer, it keeps things running smoother w/ oversized bullets. 1000/hr is easily done, why I love mine. Some decry the cost, but consider a Lyman & all the nose punches ($11 each), it isn't much more for the Star & one punch.

Agreed. I can do well over 1,000 an hour if I want to sit for that long sizing.

[cbrick]

Some decry the cost, but consider a Lyman & all the nose punches ($11 each), it isn't much more for the Star & one punch.

No kiddin.

I have over 70 molds, if I had to have a nose punch for each one at $11.00 each I could buy 3 brand new Star's at full retail even discounting the cost of the Lyman or RCBS. Even if some of the nose punch designs would interchange and I only needed say 50 different nose punches that's still 2 brand new Star's and a couple of dies.

Just sayin. [smilie=1:

Rick

[1bluehorse]

You don't like (or can't use) liquid alox,(Lee sizers are out) tired of pan lubing (don't blame you there) so about the only thing left is a Lubrasizer for sure. I have a Star and yes it is pretty fast, and a really good sizer if you're sizing a lot of the same bullet. Yes, you can drill out the little lead shot in the die if you're changing to a different bullet, then fill the holes needed with more little lead shot, course you have to clean all the lube off first, and then set it back up in the sizer again. Should only take about 30 minutes. Course then if you go back to the other bullet, well, you see where this is going. You could buy another die for each bullet you use in that caliber, I have done this for 44 cal. have three. Forty bucks a pop. Unless you're going to do lots and lots of the same bullet, I mean a couple thou a month, the Lyman, RCBS or Saeco should be all you need.

P.S. I have never sized and lubed 1000 bullets in an hour, I tend to look at each one as it comes out of the sizer just to check it. Not saying I couldn't, just don't see the need for speed...[smilie=l:

[mfraser264]

If you have to stay with the RCBS or Lyman, take the RCBS. My 5 year old Lyman 4500 is down as the collet die with the hex head we screw in the body to set the die, well the hex head came off. It was not cross threaded either

So, here I am with the threaded ring off the collet and in the press. After measuring the OD and ID of the replacement, the wall thickness of the area that failed is .015" - rather thin (my skills in the layout of parts in industry are handy). This is tool maker repair time as the threads are extra fine and the area very thin in regards to metal, very touchy to unthread that ring out of the press. Lyman said to send it in but the design will fail again, just a matter of time.

The RCBS is chunky, at least 6 times thicker in this area. I am preparing to list the Lyman online and maybe pickup another RCBS. As an engineer, these things become rather frustrating because it goes on and on, it needs to be redesigned and corrected.

[rbertalotto]

I'll be in Phoenix all next week. Attending Winter range CAS shoot for a day or two and lots of business related meeting. I plan on dropping in on Magma/Star for a visit. If allowed I'll take lots of pictures and post them here.

[Dan Cash]

I disagree, and I DO know how to pan lube and cookie-cut with ejector, etc.

The OP is pan lubing.

Rbertalotto, just get a Star. Lathesmith makes dies cheaper and to your exact or custom size if need be.

Gear

If you are fumbing around with some cookie cutter contraption, you have not mastered pan lubing.

[L Ross]

Dan Cash is right. I cringe every time I read about a cutter for pan lubing. I put my as cast boolits in the trays from ammo boxes upside down. I put my plastic, tapered sided scrap deli pan on top of the boolits in the ammo tray and carefully turn them over. I then pour the double boiler heated Bullshop NASA lube into the deli pan to the top of the lube grooves. Cool until the lube pulls away from the side of the pan. Tip the hardened lube cake full of boolits out and line them up over the ammo tray and use you finger to push on the noses and put them back into the tray. Slip the box back over the bullets for dust free storage. Fast, simple, and neat. NASA is the best BP lube I have tried and works great for my Schuetzen ammo also with smokeless.

Duke

[slinger35]

Get the Star.
Enjoy lube sizing for the next 20 years and be able to sell it for more than you paid for it.
Non of the others have the reputation of the Star and do not appreciate in value.
IMHO.

[theperfessor]

mfraser264 -

That's one reason I designed a wrench for the die retention nut for Lyman and RCBS sizers. (http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=136890) Too many people use a wrench big enough to break off a bolt in a diesel engine and overtighten/fatigue the nut in the process of changing dies.

I agree the nut is a weak spot on the Lyman, but a muscleman can do the same thing to an RCBS.

[cbrick]

If you are fumbing around with some cookie cutter contraption, you have not mastered pan lubing.


Dan Cash is right. I cringe every time I read about a cutter for pan lubing. Duke

I'll say it again, pan lubing is not for everyone, if it's your thing that's fine but it's not the only way and it's not even the best way for a lot of people. It's messy and slow, I wonder how many clean bullets I can have finished in the Star & with lube ONLY where I want it while your waiting for your lube to melt? How many more clean bullets can I finish while your waiting for your lube to harden? After your lube hardens you still have all of your bullets in a cake of lube, how many more clean bullets can I finish while your dealing with that?

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with pan lubing, if it's your thing more power to ya. Not for me thanks, I would much rather have the job finished in one easy step with no lube on the bases or noses. One swing of the handle and there is a clean, lubed bullet ready to load.

Rick

[happy7]

I believe that for those that have used both the RCBS/Lyman and the Star enough to get comfortable with both and I definitely qualify, that it would be very hard to have to give up the star. It just really is that much faster. Not only is it faster to size, but it is faster to change to a different bullet/caliber. It is also faster to add lube.

It is TRUE that the Star takes more time to get to understand how to make it work right, especially if you have experience with a Lyman because it works different. Some believe that the star is more difficult when changing to a different bullet or die. I think once you figure it out, it is easier/quicker.

While it is true that the star's nose first sizing ability just naturally sizes the bullet straighter, there are some exceptions. Some bullets, especially long ones or ones that have very wide metplats don't necessarily go through the star straight. In this case, an RCBS sizer that is properly aligned (and finding one that is can be daunting) and has a good top punch will give a better/straighter result. Also, the star cannot size bullets that are very pointy without flatening the point a bit, at least not without getting tedious. And the RCBS/Lyman will more positively seat gas checks. The star does work well with gas check providing the gas checks don't go on with too much resistence and the bullet fits tight enough in the die when you are sizing it.

The star definately can do things the RCBS/LYman sizers can't, such as get lube only in specific grooves, lube bevel base bullets without lubing the bevel, keep lube off the base of the bullet, and size more coencentrically.

I personally like to have a separate STAR die for each caliber and number of rows of holes. Yes, I have removed the shot and added it as necessary, and usually after I do, I put in an order with Lathesmith, so I don't have to do it again. However, this can really get expensive. The key is to space out the purchases. One downside of the Star is that you will get an aversion for non standard spacing on lube grooves, and it would help if all bullet designers on this site would take that into consideration when they design a bullet.

To conclude, I have and still use Lyman, RCBS and Star sizers. There are bullets that work better in one or the other for me. But I do feel a little sorry for myself when I have to use the RCBS or the Lyman. The bulk of my bullets go through the star.

[happy7]

I also want to point out that when I first got a Star, I was already experienced with a Lyman. I did struggle to get the star running well and I am pretty mechanically inclined. I spent time studying the archives here, I put in a call or two to Magma, and I experimented. It is worth the investment in time to learn how to do it.

In the beginning, I would want to use the star, because when I got it dialed in, it was fantastic. But sometimes getting it dialed in was frustrating and time consuming so for small runs of bullets I found it easier to just use the Lyman. Now it is quite the opposite. Small runs, even if it is only ten, or big runs, if I can use the star, I will because for me, it is actually faster to set up.

[cbrick]

Happy, next time your sizing a bullet that you think won't size concentrically in the Star try this. Hold the flat bullet base (checked or not) up against the flat punch and lower the handle until the bullet starts in the die & then push in normally. It will start the bullet straight and size it straight. As a side note I also leave off the punch tightening nut and let the punch free float and self center. Try this and you'll soon be sizing all of your bullets with the Star.

Yes, a pointy bullet does slow down the sizing but in reality not all that much. I use a scrap bullet set in the die bullet base to bullet base and push out the good bullet with the scrap one, the noses of the good bullets are never touched & still faster than a Lyman, SAECO or RCBS.

I've been using the Star for many years but long before I got the first one I got really sick of trying to install gas checks on varying shank dimensions from different molds. I made up punches in every caliber that I cast for and size the checks before installing them. Yep, that's a PITA but about 25 years ago when I got my first Star I just carried over the practice of doing that. Checks slip on easily and crimp tight & there is no checked bullet that the Star doesn't do easily & perfectly because the checks fit any shank correctly.

Rick