commercial jackets are easy

[BT Sniper]

Customer had me tune up his .357 dies. He had a few comercial jackets so I made a couple bullets for him in the new tuned dies.

CH .357 dies with a .250 bored meplat and my improved internals.

Goes to show these dies can make bullets that look just like commercial offerings.

Got a 158 grain JHP here. I was able to use a 130 grain 7mm Lee mold for the core.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1070003.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1070001.jpg

Good shooting and Swage On!

BT

[Brasso]

Beautiful work Brian!!

Sam

[ReloaderFred]

How about you take on building jacket making dies, Brian? Since no one is producing jackets that are affordable in pistol calibers, it would seem like they would sell.

Fred

[BT Sniper]

I think that is a heck of an idea. What shall we use for jacket material that is affordable? I'm sure guilding metal sheet rolls are fairly expensive. How about some sort of brass or copper flashing/thin sheet? I think brass would be cool!

Jon B siad he had a lot. Maybe he will check in.

I'm sure it can be done.

Larger jackets seem to be hard to find. Anything under 30 cal isn't a problem.

[Lizard333]

What are you using for your cannalure? Looks good!!

[GRUMPA]

When you start getting into metals especially something like copper all of it is sold by the pound. So the more you buy the cheaper it is type of thing, then there's the issue of knowing what "TYPE" of copper, there's an awful lot of alloys out there and the price per pound reflects that.

Personally if it were me and especially my very empty wallet I would try and use spent brass for as long as possible. I just tried running an annealed 9 through my 9mm seater and got that dang thing stuck in there so good I think webster would have been red-faced hearing all those colorful words that were just flying out of my mouth. Doing that trying to sized it down for .355 stuff I came to the conclusion I need a beefier press.

[KTN]

I think that is a heck of an idea. What shall we use for jacket material that is affordable? I'm sure guilding metal sheet rolls are fairly expensive. How about some sort of brass or copper flashing/thin sheet? I think brass would be cool!

Jon B siad he had a lot. Maybe he will check in.

I'm sure it can be done.

Larger jackets seem to be hard to find. Anything under 30 cal isn't a problem.

It sure can be done.
First draw takes lots of force, and then it gets easier.
I get my jacket material by raiding scrap barrel at work :wink:. There isn't much, but enough 0.031" copper and brass to keep me busy drawing jackets. [smilie=w:


Kaj

[BT Sniper]

YEP! brass cases are hard to beet! There really isn't a caliber jacket we can't make from reducing or expanding a simple brass case.

9mm, 40 S&W, 45 ACP and 223 rem are all plentyful and cheap and can cover probalby 90% of our bullet jacket needs.

I am obtaining more supplies for better reducing dies.

That .357 jacket from 9mm, cut .223 would be even easier..... Anneal it real good. Push it threw a 9mm taper crimp die backwords = .360 and I will have a .351 final reduction die availble real soon.

I picked up 1K worth of Sierra 30 cal jackets. With a simple reducing die that should cover our needs all the way down to 25 cal. I plan to shoot a few of these 30 cal jackets reduced down to .264 in my 6.5x55 soon.

So jackets from copper or brass stripping or even roof flashing........ ? well I guess it depends on just how much access you have to the supplies?

[BT Sniper]

What are you using for your cannalure? Looks good!!

I picked up a used Corbin power cannalure machine.

His hand powered tool will also produce a cannalure grove like this. Doing it by hand is painfull if you have to do a lot of bullets. Like 1K or more.

BT

[GRUMPA]

His hand powered tool will also produce a cannalure grove like this. Doing it by hand is painfull if you have to do a lot of bullets. Like 1K or more.

BT

Your not kidding I did 600 pcs and my poor hands were screaming in pain, I just wish they had longer handles for the thing the leverage itself would help that a lot. My wife saw me as I was coming out of my room and asked me why the palm of my hand was so red :oops:.

[ReloaderFred]

I was thinking about using something like this for pistol caliber bullet jackets: http://store.electrical-insulators-and-copper-ground-bars.com/0thsococosh.html

I've purchased their .010" copper foil for making gaschecks, and it works like a dream. They also carry .020", if the .032" is too thick for bullet jackets.

This is all soft temper, and their prices include shipping. I've checked around, and their price per square inch is cheaper than anyone else I've found, due to the shipping being included in the price. There is no one within 100 miles of me who sells copper foil, so ordering through Storm Copper has been the cheapest route I've found.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[BT Sniper]

Your not kidding I did 600 pcs and my poor hands were screaming in pain, I just wish they had longer handles for the thing the leverage itself would help that a lot. My wife saw me as I was coming out of my room and asked me why the palm of my hand was so red :oops:.

LOL Always enjoy your humor. Should have a new 40 cal die in your hands soon.

I'm sure attaching a larger handle of some sorts would not be that difficult. Heck, before I go the powered machine I started a thread reguarding "rednecking a power cannalure tool". Maybe some sort of power drill attached to the tool??

BT

[ReloaderFred]

On the CH4D cannelure tool, you can unscrew the black knob on the leverage arm and drill and thread on a wooden file handle to the rod. This gives you about 2" more leverage, and makes it easier on your hands.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[GerryM]

Why not just motor it up.?
I;m sure theres some way to make it work with a drill motor.

[Lizard333]

I picked up a used Corbin power cannalure machine.

His hand powered tool will also produce a cannalure grove like this. Doing it by hand is painfull if you have to do a lot of bullets. Like 1K or more.

BT

Yikes! 699 is a little pricey!! I'm looking at the CH4d cannalure tool. Might suit my needs nicely.

[BT Sniper]

New is pricy..... used for $265 was a heck of a deal!

It pays for it's self with the first bullet. Just ask Grumpa :)


BT

[GRUMPA]

Why not just motor it up.?
I;m sure theres some way to make it work with a drill motor.

I'm sure it could be done, but I live off the grid and power must be monitored. If you don't regulate your power you have to replace that 3k-6k battery bank sooner.

[BT Sniper]

Yep I thought of that as I mentioned power. Pretty cool off the grid there Grumpa. Bigger handel I guess, maybe even geared... Anything is possible!

Good shooting

[GRUMPA]

On the CH4D cannelure tool, you can unscrew the black knob on the leverage arm and drill and thread on a wooden file handle to the rod. This gives you about 2" more leverage, and makes it easier on your hands.

Hope this helps.

Fred

Well I went into the shop and found a 2" long nut and found a long bolt and put a piece of fuel line on it. I tried to take off that knob awhile back and couldn't take it off, it looked like it was a press fit and I didn't want to break it. Finally I put it in my vise and took it off, and it looked as if they had some sort of compound on it that was a bugger to take off but I managed. Haven't tried it yet I have to many projects going on and my press broke (part on order) so I have stuff all over my really small table.

But that was a good tip and thanks. Now I need to look for a piece of metal so I can make the crank a little longer. It's like the cannalure tool was designed by LILIPUTIANS. Maybe look for one of those big knobs too like the ones on some steering wheels, they used to be called suicide knobs back in the day I don't know what they call them now.

[ReloaderFred]

The knob on mine was hard to get off, too. I think they use LocTite on it. I just drilled a hole slightly smaller than the lever in the wooden file handle and then threaded the handle onto the lever. That gave me about 2" more length on the lever, plus the rounded file handle for a smooth surface. It's worked out pretty good.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Ronbo256]

"Necker Knobs" is what I always knew them as! got one on my lawnmower so I can drink and mow!

[Houndog]

This is a little OT, but you guys dealing with a part you think has been set with Loctite, just heat the threaded hole part of the connection with a SMALL propane torch or a large solder gun. It will come loose easily. Loctite doesn't tolerate heat well, no matter what grade it ts.

[DukeInFlorida]

Great idea.
Will mess with mine, and will heat that threaded component. That was the one issue with mine.

[Sasquatch-1]

I have seen a lot of people use aluminum for gas checks. Would it work for jackets or won't it draw properly? I know in the short time and small amount of bullets I have swaged I have used a few blazer cases and they seem to work.

[Reload3006]

if annealed it will draw properly. There has been a lot of talk about people trying it. James at ammosmith has used stinger aluminum cases for jackets. Obviously its softer than steel so its not going to blow up your barrel or ring it. However Aluminum is known to oxidize easily. For some this is a concern as Aluminum Oxide is a common abrasive in sand paper. I dont know that I wold be that worried about it personally What would concern me more than anything is fouling what would get it out of your bore? Copper and Brass Ammonia bore cleaners remover that fouling fairly easily. What would get aluminum fouling out I haven't a clue. Being a machinist I know that when aluminum builds up on a cutting tool its all over and requires a trip to a grinder to remove it. I really dont want to grind on my bore LOL ... Maybe someone much smarter than I can answer that one.

[dfreeman]

Ammonia dissolves most metals so the ammonia based cleaners would most likely work.........but then again, I have never tried it.

[GRUMPA]

I grew up around the same field as Reload3006 but mine was more or less in the Precision Grinding aspect of the Machining Industry. Aluminum of ANY type is not something I would consider "IDEAL" jacket material. That stuff has a much lower threshold to heat than most know about. Aluminum basically can and will want to stick to whatever it comes in contact with. While working with Aluminum it will basically melt itself to tooling/grinding wheels so fast it isn't funny.

I'm sure left with no other options and in dire need of something I would consider it, but not until I've exhausted all other means. It's just odd to me that after will say 100 rounds being accelerated down a barrel it isn't noticeable while looking down the barrel that a person doesn't see aluminum stuck to it. I've never done it and I more than likely never will, Working with metals as long as I have in my mind it's a no-no. But if works for you by all means go ahead and have fun with it.

[DukeInFlorida]

I commonly use aluminum as gas check material. The lube that is just ahead of the gas check provides enough lubrication to avoid issues with the aluminum in the barrel.

However, an aluminum jacketed bullet would not have any lubrication, and galling (I think that's a good term) would be evident.

[GerryM]

You probably could coat the finished jacket with one of the coating materials like Moly or danzack. Both should work pretty well. But deep drawing aluminum is something else.

[GerryM]

What a great post guys' Gulding metal jacket are the cadillac of jacket makeing.
The others like copper are quite good also. Just that when useing just copper
you have to also use a different bullet shape. For pistol bullets it's just fine, getting into rifle full length jackets you need a bullet with a long bearing surface to compensate for the material. copper alone slides around quite a bit. Thats why they use the 95 5 C210.
That 5% zinc does alot for a rifle jacket.
The used rifle and pistol cases are really good Brass comes in many alloys.
With the right equipment and technique {like the ones you fellows are useing , } can give some great results.
My compliments to all of you for developing these dies. You have managed to help a lot of shooters'''

[Bwana]

if annealed it will draw properly. There has been a lot of talk about people trying it. James at ammosmith has used stinger aluminum cases for jackets. Obviously its softer than steel so its not going to blow up your barrel or ring it. However Aluminum is known to oxidize easily. For some this is a concern as Aluminum Oxide is a common abrasive in sand paper. I dont know that I wold be that worried about it personally What would concern me more than anything is fouling what would get it out of your bore? Copper and Brass Ammonia bore cleaners remover that fouling fairly easily. What would get aluminum fouling out I haven't a clue. Being a machinist I know that when aluminum builds up on a cutting tool its all over and requires a trip to a grinder to remove it. I really dont want to grind on my bore LOL ... Maybe someone much smarter than I can answer that one.

And all this time I thought that CCI Stingers were nickel plated brass cases. Well, I guess you can learn something new here thanks to Reload3006.

[Reload3006]

And all this time I thought that CCI Stingers were nickel plated brass cases. Well, I guess you can learn something new here thanks to Reload3006.

You are correct I was thinking of Blazer and wrote stinger ... Give me a thousand lashes with a wet noodle :rolleyes:

[Bwana]

A small point perhaps; but, as some here say, "We have to keep in mind the noobies."

I have 5000 rnds of Stinger sitting to the right of me. Again, the 3rd FIL. I have also done a bit of work using live Stinger cases, minus bullet and powder, as a basis for "separated round" ammo in a 22lr bolt gun. Using 22 Hornet bullets I managed to safely get to 1800 fps with 40gr bullets. Basically the same as 22 Mag performance. The Bullets had dual diameters, front and rear, and were loaded ahead of the charged case. And to satisfy some here, they were very accurate. Practical? Probably not, but very fun and interesting. The stinger case is the strongest 22lr case out there.

[GerryM]

Fwiw I have friend {Bob} that use to have 22win mag ammo handloaded.
He asked for some 35 and some 40 gr pills to send to the person handloading
the ammo for him. They shot really well makeing the mag shoot small groups at 100yds in light winds. Sad to say the handloader passed away. That was big loss for Bob and other shooters having that done. Maybe someone else will try that and get similar results

[Greg5278]

I would stay away from Brass for Jackets in Pistol Calibers. if I remember correctly, Brass is prohibited if it is beyond a cetain thickness by BATF regulations. The rule doesn't apply to Riflees or Shotguns. It is under the section about Armor piercing ammo. The regs specify jacket composition, and in some cases the Thickness.
Just trying to keep any Problems away.
Greg

[BT Sniper]

I would stay away from Brass for Jackets in Pistol Calibers. if I remember correctly, Brass is prohibited if it is beyond a cetain thickness by BATF regulations. The rule doesn't apply to Riflees or Shotguns. It is under the section about Armor piercing ammo. The regs specify jacket composition, and in some cases the Thickness.
Just trying to keep any Problems away.
Greg

This doesn't apply since we have an open tip to the jacket. If it was FMJ it might be a problem.

Come join us. Shooting brass jackets is the way to go!

BT

[475AR]

BT
PM sent
Thanks
Scott

[Bwana]

I would stay away from Brass for Jackets in Pistol Calibers. if I remember correctly, Brass is prohibited if it is beyond a cetain thickness by BATF regulations. The rule doesn't apply to Riflees or Shotguns. It is under the section about Armor piercing ammo. The regs specify jacket composition, and in some cases the Thickness.
Just trying to keep any Problems away.
Greg


Guess you need to get hold of Remington right away then, their Golden Sabers are brass jacketed.

[alfloyd]

And the Montana Gold bullets are thick brass jacketed and some are FMJ.
How do they get away from the "armor piercing" problem?

Lafaun