A fouling question

[Beekeeper]

Sounds ominous but I need some help.
I shoot a couple of old Nepal Martini Henry's.
One has the original 577/450 barrel and the other has a 43 Mauser barrel that I put on it.

Now neither of these barrels are pristine to say the least.
Both have their share of scratches and pitting. Even so they are pretty good for something 100+ years old.
The problem is no matter what lube I use I am getting the black charcoal , black tar fouling.
I shoot mainly FFG Goex
70 grains
a boolit lubed with Emmerts or 50/50 beeswax/olive oil
When P/P I use a grease cookie under the boolit same as above.
After 5 rounds and a blowtube between rounds you would think I had a tar mine.
It will cut clean with a water wet brush and patches.
This happens with both lubes.

Would like to be able to shoot about 40 or 50 rounds using a blow tube between rounds and a couple of wet patches after 10 or so.

Need input and ideas


beekeeper

[montana_charlie]

After 5 rounds and a blowtube between rounds you would think I had a tar mine.
It will cut clean with a water wet brush and patches.
This happens with both lubes.
Tar can be created when using petroluem products in your lube. It is often called 'asphalt'.
If you had that in your bore it wouldn't cut with water.

Goex generally burns more efficiently (and cleaner) when compressed.
Most who shoot Goex powder also use fairly heavy compression. That may not be an option with the .577.

Your fouling sounds 'normal' to me, but compressed loads may reduce the volume somewhat.

CM

[Don McDowell]

You probably need to jump the charge up. If the charge is to light then you'll get excessive fouling.
Might also want to try some 1f.

[littlejack]

Fellas:
I realize that I am an infant when compared to some of the other black powders shooters here on the forum, but I thought that the fouling was SUPPOSED to be soft and moist.
I blowtube between shots for that very reason (to moisten and soften the fouling) because that is what I was taught on this forum. The moist fouling makes for a lot better accuracy, and easy removal. The fouling does not continue to build up with each shot for 40 to 50 shots.
It is moved out the muzzle with the next shot.
I also use the Emmerts recipe on my 457125 boolits in my 45-70, with great results in "softening" the fouling because that is what it was designed to do. I shoot as many rounds as I have loaded for a session with no ill results. When finished, I use two wet patches with 10/90, soluble oil and water. I dry the bore with two dry patches, then one oily patch to finish.

Jack

[JeffinNZ]

I have had HUGE success with duplex loading in my .310 Cadet. Can I suggest you load 10gr of H4198 or IMR3031 under 60gr of GOEX and see how it goes? My Cadet with duplex burns so clean the bore is shiney after shooting. Unbelieveably clean and accurate without wiping between shots.

[excess650]

In the larger capacity bottlenecks fg may give better results. Too, bottlenecks don't need much, if any, compression with BP. IIRC, My 43 Mauser loads were ~85gr Swiss fg. I used paper patched boolits with a lube cookie and didn't experience what you are seeing.

I also shot 40-70 2.1" Bn and the 40-50SBN. Neither exhibited the fouling tendancies with Goex ffg. The 40-50BN didn't even foul with fffg.

You might need to switch lubes. What works in one geographical area may not work in another due to differences in humidity.

[oldracer]

I had a new Sharps from Italy that had a bit of the gooping issue you mention. I was using the same load in another Sharps and an old Rolling Block with no build up issues? I looked here and talked to many BP shooters at our range which can get very dry one day and wet the next in the hills of the San Diego area. I noted that the barrel had a lot of radial machine marks so as you noted "not pristine" and they suggested a bit of lapping.

I slugged several cast bullets down the barrel and then drilled and tapped the base to attach a threaded rod. I gooped a bunch of oil based valve lapping compound down the barrel and slowly worked the lead slugs back and forth making sure not to get them into the chamber area. After about 15 strokes, the machine marks were gone and the next time I shot there was NO hardened fouling at all! Accuracy went up with group sizes cut in half. The only issue was really cleaning the compound out well.

If all else fails you might try smoothing out the barrel and removing the pits and other bad areas since the guns are old and you are shooting them for fun and if the barrel gets a bit looser it shouldn't hurt?

I just looked and saw you are in "Southern CA" and if you come out to the South Bay range I plan to be there Thursday unless we get some rain and I can help some?

[NickSS]

I have several old rifles mostly trapdoor springfields and some of them have the same issues you experience. First the charge you are using is too low for the cases you are using. YOu may not even be getting any compression with the 577-450. But it is mostly due to your not pristine barrels. The pits and scratches tend to trap BP fouling and it does not get moist enough with a blow tube and ends up building up until you end up with hard fouling. I had a 50-70 RB carbine that was particularly bad in this respect. It shot well with smokeless loads but quickly fouled out when using black no mater what I did. :Lapping the bore may help the situation as I have done that on a couple of rifles with good results.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

In my 577/450 I use a load of 80gn Wano FFG and a 520gn lead projectile. I used to have a similar problem untill one day I tried Lanotek grease. I use Polenta cornmeal filler and a card over powder wad.

This stuff is very messy to use but it does keep all fouling soft to a point where I can fire 40 rounds without cleaning

This target fired at 200yds with a bore that had already fired 25 rounds for the day.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/Picture044.jpg

[JeffinNZ]

BAW: How do you use the Lanotek? I have their aerosol can and it is fantastic.

[RMulhern]

BAW

That shot at the bottom?? Your first one of that string??