"What is rifling?"

[Lonegun1894]

I jas just reading the post a few below this regarding .410 handgun patterns and another poster asked "what is the definition of rifling?" and got me thinking. I hope making an extra post doesnt confuse the issue, but I didnt want to hijack that previous thread. Now we all know rifling is grooves inside the barrel that rotate thereby adding spin to the bullet to keep it stable and increase accuracy. Now please bear with me cause I may be going off in left field and may need you all to pull me back to sanity. Regarding that post about using birdshot in .410 handguns, the rifling is required per fed regs on any barrel less than 18 inches long, but seeing the question posed got me thinking :shock: . I have always seen the laws state that shotgun barrels 18" + can be smooth, but anything under 18" has to be rifled. I have yet to see a law that says the rifling has to provide rotation or spin. And I know there have been experiments in the past with shotguns designed to shoot shot having "straight rifling" which is just straight grooves cut into the barrel. I believe the idea was to prevent the shotcup from rotating in order to provide more consistent patterns. Now, I know every handgun I have seen chambered to also accept .410 shells was chambered in .45 Colt to allow the manufacturer to claim that it is a handgun chambered in a handgun caliber, but can also chamber .410, and I think the straight rifling would be a serious handicap as far as stabilizing .45 Colt boolits goes--but it seems like it would be an answer to the patterning problems when the gun is used with shot. Sorry for the lenght of this, but the thought just struck me and I haven't got my thoughts organized enough just yet to express them more scientifically. Besides, unless there is a law somewhere that I just havent seen that specifies that rifling has to rotate, maybe this is an option. I mean, if it just defines it as grooves cut into the barrel, then it may not matter if its straight or spirals--at least as far as legalities are concerned. And if legal, it may provide patterns that would outperform anything possible with a rifled bore that has a straight rifled choke tube in the end.

Now before anyone goes and does this, lets make sure I'm not barking up the wrong tree and giving anyone ideas that will end up getting them locked up. I personally dont have a .410 handgun, and the only one I ever had gave patterns so horrible that I sold it first chance I had. Thankfully met a man who wanted a gun with a horrible pattern for snakes at his fishing spot when they got up close and personal. So what do y'all think? Is this legal, and if so, would it provide enough improvement to make it worth the time and effort to do it?

[subsonic]

I think you got my hint.

I think that even very shallow, wide, lands with a very slight twist would work well.

[Lonegun1894]

I think you just may have a point with VERY slight twist, even though i'd be tempted to go completely straight "twist" if legal. I still think this needs to be checked very thoroughly as to legality before anyone proceeds with turning this idea into a project. But do think it would work. Then again, the very slight twist you mention would still be A twist, so should eliminate any legal concerns. Great idea.

[R.M.]

OK, would tooling/reamer marks qualify as rifling? Do they specify how deep the rifling needs to be?

[44man]

Law makers have no clue, it is all "sound good" stuff to mollify a voter base--read anti gun groups. MONEY!
As if a short, smooth bore is dangerous or something.
A bayonet lug was a big No-No as if it was more dangerous then a bullet.
Make me POTUS and all gun laws will be scrapped, BATF would go on food stamps and only law breakers would be banned from owning a gun.

[subsonic]

Let the law breakers have them too. Will keep the theives from wanting to steal them. If everyone else has one too..... we'll all be on an even playing field. They won't have an advantage by having one if everyone has one tucked into their belt.

[44man]

Let the law breakers have them too. Will keep the theives from wanting to steal them. If everyone else has one too..... we'll all be on an even playing field. They won't have an advantage by having one if everyone has one tucked into their belt.
Well we all can shoot better then the jerk holding his gun sideways--COOOOOL! I BE TOUGH! :holysheep[smilie=l: I bees from Bmore!

[Iron Mike Golf]

The problem here is such things as "what is rifling" is not a matter of law, unless and until there is legislation that defines rifling. Until then, it is a matter of a BATFE ruling. And what happens is that becomes a precedent respected by courts, and becomes defacto law until legislation that counters the ruling.

Like it or not, that's how it works now.

[Ed K]

Hastings made the "straight rifled" (oxymoron likely) shotgun barrels for a while. Probably the issue of any legality due to lack of twist was irrelevant because all were field barrels of 24" and up.

[Blacksmith]

Also how many grooves are required? I could see a single shallow wide groove with a 1 in 100 twist or 1 in 500 and have a smooth sloped transition between the groove and land. Good for stabilizing very short boolits.

[runfiverun]

a 1-20 in a 4" bbl is gonna look pretty straight any ways.
you have to have some twist in there to stabilize a regular bullet.
ome of the best solutions i ever seen was a 410-45 single shot that took "chokes"
you basically left the choke out for 410 and put it in for the 45.

[Ola]

grooves = "rifling"?

Is there grooves in polygonal rifling?

[Lonegun1894]

Hastings made the "straight rifled" (oxymoron likely) shotgun barrels for a while. Probably the issue of any legality due to lack of twist was irrelevant because all were field barrels of 24" and up.


I knew someone would remember who did the straight rifling thing--and that I wasn't losing my marbles.

[Texantothecore]

If I remember correctly, American Derringer had a go around with the BATF about no rifling in their derringers and I think straight rifling as well. The BATF said no.

[Wayne Smith]

I think you got my hint.

I think that even very shallow, wide, lands with a very slight twist would work well.

Do a Google search on "Paradox rifling". You may be surprised at what has been done historically.