Thoughts on loading for my new Contender

[Jim]

A member is going to send me some RCBS 225-55-FNs to play with. I'll try to work up subsonic loads with these for 'coon huntin'. If I can find the sweet spot around 800 FPS or so, they should work very well.

Another member sent me a link to Widener's. The have 34 grain hollow points. That should be fun for a variety of applications.

Widener's also has 55 FMJBTs for $39/500. Between the three types, that oughta' keep me busy for awhile.

Comments? Court is now in session.

[subsonic]

I'm guessing .223?

Try 4.5gr of trailboss for around 1050 behind a 55gr. Chrono and adjust if needed.

[Jim]

Yeah, I failed to mention the caliber. Sorry for the confusion. It is .223.

[uscra112]

Dunno about 'coons, but my one trial of a subsonic 45 grain j-wart (V-max) from my 14" 'tender Hornet on a chuck wasn't too successful. Had less effect than a .22 rimfire. That was at about 25 yards, too. A perfect head or spine shot would have done, but I didn't get that. I think I got it in the lungs. Chuck hardly flinched, and took off at top speed for its' hole. Didn't try that again. Why make a load that a .22 rimfire can do as well or better? I only load that j-wart at 2100 fps now; the neighbours will have to get used to the noise.

[marshall623]

I think Trail Boss is the best for what you want it do. Older IMR books have 4759 loads for 223 /W 55's . They were still running at 2200 with starting loads from a 14" tube

[stubshaft]

FWIW - I used to shoot 3.5grs PB behind the RCBS 55gr boolit with decent accuracy. I just (last week) tried to down load some 225107's and 225415 using 5.5 AA#5 (same burning rate as Unique) and got horrible results. The boolits were not stabilizing and some were hitting the target sideways at 50 yds, even the 107's which kinda suprised me since they work so well out of the K-hornet. Since this is alot further than you are shooting they may work for you at close range.

[firefly1957]

Those flat point cast bullets should be ideal for your purpose I have found that pointed bullets that do not expand let animals escape before they die.

If I get a chance I will load some low loads in my .221 XP-100 to see how they work even with smaller case these light loaded should do about the same . Does that barrel have a 1-10 twist?

[rexherring]

I wouldn't even bother with a jacketed bullet at those slower velocities you'd be better off with a little heavier cast that's fairly soft. Most .22 long rifles are in that velocity range and are soft lead. The flat point 55's should be decent with the flat nose if not to hard.

I tried slower rounds in my .223 Contender also and had crappy results with all but the 45 gr hornet bullets, they would get a little expansion but not much.

[Blacksmith]

Jim
Some thoughts on your reduced loads. Since you want minimum pelt damage with head shots you might want to consider FMJ J-word so you get no expansion.

When looking for load data don't forget the .223 was based on the .222, also look at .221 all are similar so with appropriate adjustments similar solutions to questions such as reduced loads should work so don't just look at .223 data.

Here are some links to reduced loads using Blue Dot that may be something to try.

Earlier article:
http://www.jamescalhoon.com/bee.php
Revised article:
http://www.jamescalhoon.com/tobee2.php

Rocky Raab article on Blue Dot:
You have to tab all the way over to the right to see the text, problem with their server.
http://www.reloadingroom.com/index_files/Blue%20Dot.htm

IMR Trail Boss Powder Might give you good load density for reduced loads but I could find no data like what you want to do.

[Jim]

My contender will not be 'designated' to strictly 'coon huntin', but it most certainly will be used for it. So, I will be working on developing a load toward that end.

A few notes on that:
1- A 'coon that's 70 feet up needs oxygen. That's a high climb for a 'coon and that's usually about as high/far as I have to shoot. Once I find a position I can comfortably shoot from, a brain pan shot is not difficult.
2- By the time we get to the tree, he's settled into a position, so I'm not shootin' at a movin' target or one that's likely to bolt at any second. I can take my time and get the cross hairs exactly where I want the bullet to land.
3- If the pelt has a bullet hole in it anywhere other than the head, it's useless except for training puppies. So, I shoot between the eyes or, if his head is turned, in the ear.

I know for a fact I don't know all there is to the different bullet designs. It sure seems to me, though, that ANY bullet design, traveling at just below MACH, would switch the lights off for Rocky if I put one through his mother board.

My objective is to work up a load, regardless of bullet design/weight, that I can consistently put through a dime at a hundred feet from the bench. If the load and gun will do that, it's on me at the tree.

The load needs to be as quiet as possible. 'as possible' is the key phrase. I am currently shooting CCI Blazer 40 grain solids in the Cricket. Those certainly don't shoot with a 'pffft', but they don't sound like a full house .223 either.

Someone asked 'why?' I have an answer other than the typical 'cause I wanna', 'I enjoy the challenge', 'Cause I can' or 'why not?' answers. The Contender will be easier to carry and manage than the Cricket. We've had to climb and crawl through Laurel thickets that were a bit tight. Several times, I've had to pass the rifle to one of the other guys because passing through required getting down on my knees to do so. We cross barbed wire fences on a regular basis, at least a half dozen times a night. That requires me to pass the rifle over the fence to one of the other guys or lean it on the other side until I get across. If one of the guys holds the strands apart for me to stoop down and step through, even a little 30 inch rifle gets in the way. I can sling the Contender across my back, 'mexican style', and manage all these obstacles with much less problems. There are some very real and tangible reasons for using the Contender.

Besides all that, I got a new gun. I wanna' kill a 'coon with it.

By all means, y'all please do continue to contribute to the thread. I really am enjoying this cyber 'back deck with a cold one' conversation.

Thanks, guys!

[firefly1957]

Jim did you check out those light 223 loads at the bottom of this page ?http://www.accuratereloading.com/223rem.html

I am not sure of your laws but here in Michigan using a pistol in your situation would have big advantages if it is combined with a concealed carry license . A rifle would have to be unloaded and cased in the vehicle and not loaded until the point of kill a pistol (even a contender) can be carried loaded at all times. I forget what current caliber restrictions are I know we had some, just one of the reasons I have never gotten into coon hunting at night. The coons I shoot are in the name of pest control and the pelts are often left with much damage! I have probably shot more coons with the 45 acp than anything else but the most damage to the pelt was done with the 223 and frangible bullets. Head shots with the lowly 22 short with the type of shots you describe have been very effective for me. With the high cost of primers have you considered a 22 long rifle adapter for your .223 it may be a interesting addition to your new gun. I just bought 525 Federal 36 gr H.P. long rifles for 14.99 locally primers are $3.99 0- $5.25 /100 that is Twenty dollars and 95 cents for just 525 primers! at a minimum then add 6% sales tax to both prices for the real cost! and that is not considering time and powder,lube ,bullet, I would consider sight in to be lower with the insert as you would use just a single 22 load most likely and not work on load development. By the way 100 22 shorts were $9.99! but they are quiet ! in fact my 24" Stevens over under with shorts is quieter than my Sheridan pellet rifle and will shoot dime size 50 yd groups.
http://www.mcace.com/adapters.htm I am not sure if this one will work it appears it is glued in place?
I know there are other companies out there but all I am getting is ink cartridge adapters!!!!

[canyon-ghost]

Vague statement the seems to be true: TC Contenders like light bullets. I don't know why but, like the guys using hornet bullets, my contenders prefer a lighter weight bullet to be accurate. I think it's the shorter barrels that do it but, that may not be all there is to that.

A quieter load requires a lot of work. Sometimes the short barrel just makes everything louder, period. Other times, you can quiet it down about half, by going subsonic. A 7mmTCU, being made from a 223 case, I know it's loud. It's also cheap brass that can be fireformed and neck sized (neck sizing does a lot toward accuracy).

The contender is also real handy to take to the reloading press and set the bullet seating depth as close as it will get to the rifling, and still close... the action has to close easily.

Hollowpoints are usually only so-so accurate from a Contender. I load mostly flat-point gas check designs. The flat point is the easiest to dial in, for the most part, even in a plain based bullet.

[Jim]

Jim did you check out those light 223 loads at the bottom of this page ?http://www.accuratereloading.com/223rem.html

Yeah, I did. There's some useful information there.

I am not sure of your laws but here in Michigan using a pistol in your situation would have big advantages if it is combined with a concealed carry license . A rifle would have to be unloaded and cased in the vehicle and not loaded until the point of kill a pistol (even a contender) can be carried loaded at all times.

The only restrictions in VA that pertain to carrying a firearm whil hunting 'coons applies to outside the gun season. Permit holders are allowed to carry a sidearm, but a kill will land you in the courtroom. Other than that, there are no restrictions. I can carry a loaded firearm while afoot in any caliber/gauge.

I forget what current caliber restrictions are I know we had some, just one of the reasons I have never gotten into coon hunting at night. The coons I shoot are in the name of pest control and the pelts are often left with much damage! I have probably shot more coons with the 45 acp than anything else but the most damage to the pelt was done with the 223 and frangible bullets. Head shots with the lowly 22 short with the type of shots you describe have been very effective for me. With the high cost of primers have you considered a 22 long rifle adapter for your .223 it may be a interesting addition to your new gun.

I'm sure that eventually, I'll get a 22LR barrel for my Contender.

I just bought 525 Federal 36 gr H.P. long rifles for 14.99 locally primers are $3.99 0- $5.25 /100 that is Twenty dollars and 95 cents for just 525 primers! at a minimum then add 6% sales tax to both prices for the real cost! and that is not considering time and powder,lube ,bullet.

I buy primers at Wally World for $3.09/100. My time does not factor in as I'm not loosing pay while casting/loading. A grain of Unique costs me .2 cents and the surplus rifle powder I have costs .05 cents per grain. I have no idea how much a thin layer of Alox on a boolit would cost. I doubt if it would even register.

I would consider sight in to be lower with the insert as you would use just a single 22 load most likely and not work on load development.

I'm not a college educated mathematician nor am I a professional ballistician. I don't think, though, that there's going to be a difference in POI at 60 feet, especially when the shot is taken at almost straight up.

By the way 100 22 shorts were $9.99! but they are quiet ! in fact my 24" Stevens over under with shorts is quieter than my Sheridan pellet rifle and will shoot dime size 50 yd groups.

My Cricket rifle absolutely refuses to cooperate with any choice of shorts. I can't prove this, but I think it has to do with bullet jump in a LR chamber. Maybe it's just the rifle, I dunno. I do know it's fruitless to try shorts in it. That just ain't happenin'.

http://www.mcace.com/adapters.htm I am not sure if this one will work it appears it is glued in place?
I know there are other companies out there but all I am getting is ink cartridge adapters!!!!

I can't wrap my head around fastening an adapter in a chamber. When I want to go back to the original caliber, I got a problem. Besides, if I wanna go from .223 to 22LR, I'll just pull the Cricket out of the case and go with that.

[canyon-ghost]

I'd think that using Unique in a 223 would end up like the Hornet. Most of the guys I know using fast burning handgun powders in Contenders don't seem to get good accuracy.

In the Hornet, I use IMR 4227. In the 7mmTCU, it's SR 4759. Just wondering if a rifle powder would work better. Mostly, they do for me. I've used some Bullseye but, it doesn't approach the potential the Contender has. It seems 2400 is about the fastest all-around powder that the TCs like. And, I have no trouble with that.

I managed a good load in the 22 Hornet, 8.0 grains of Vitahvouri Oy N110 and the 50 grain V-max. It got in the neighborhood of 3/4" at 100 yards. It isn't quiet, though.

[canyon-ghost]

Loadbooks puts it at 7.5 to 8.5 grains of Unique for that 55 grain bullet. It's worth a try.

Complete Reloading Manual for the TC Contender Vol. 1

[Jim]

Just made a note of that, Ron. And thank you!

[Blacksmith]

Jim
I have done some ammo testing with my Contender with a carbine barrel in .22 rimfire and of the 6 or 8 loads I tested the stand alone winner was CCI SGB (small game bullet) from the bench at 25 yards it will put 5 shot groups onto one hole if I do my job. But like any .22 RF each different ammo would change the group size and/or impact.

A lot of people call quiet loads Cat Sneeze loads so be certain to include that in your search terms.

Here are some reduced loads from a bunch of people:
http://www.223reloads.com/home/223-5-56-info/223-5-56-reloading/subsonic-223-loads

[firefly1957]

JIM
I agree with gluing a adapter in is BAD I would want to go center fire at the sound of a coyote!
I doubt it is the jump as 22 shorts shoot great for me in long rifle chambered guns I have shot them in including S&W model 17 and that is a looooong jump!

I did a little experimenting today with a 10" XP-100 and some 53 gr bullets swaged with a copper foil jacket (40 ga.) the jacket came off so accuracy did not work however couple things were noted . These loads were about as loud a a 22 magnum (rifle) and 3.5 grs of red dot and a CCI-500 primer stuck no bullets in barrel in fact they were stepping right out and should work with cast bullet quite well. PICTURE ATTACHED

[brotherdarrell]

Jim - if your still looking for a light load I would go with 1.5 gr Bullseye and the 55 gr cast. This is my go to load in both .222 and .223 rifles. Accurate out to 50 yds. and sub-sonic. And fwiw I had to get below .5 gr before sticking a bullet in the rifle barrels. I've shot many rock squirrels and several jackrabbits and had very good results with this settup.

brotherdarrell

[Jim]

Thanks. I made a note of that.

[Norbrat]

The chamber adaptors are not glued in unless they are to shoot the 7.62 x 39 in 308 or 30/06.

I have one of these for my 222 rifle and it works well. You extract the adaptor with the fired .22 case as normal, then push out the fired case and rimfire plug from the adaptor using a short rod or dowel.