.410 pistol patterns

[subsonic]

So we have a whole slew of .410 pistols now.

T/C Encore and Contender
Taurus Judges
MR BFRs
Llama Super Commanche
Rossi Wizard
And I'm sure there are others I'm missing, plus derringers from more than one company.

I am kind-of wanting one that will actually pattern to hunt small game with and to annoy people at the trap range. For both of these uses, some semblance of a pattern would be nice. Some of these guns have removeable chokes and others don't.

I suspect that the ones with chokes pattern better, but have no proof.

Does anyone care to share how their .410 pistols pattern with #8s?

[tek4260]

I don't think a choke will overcome the spin from the rifling and salvage much of a pattern.

I'm a decent wing shot, but I would probably starve to death if I had to depend on a .410 shotgun in real world hunting. :) I couldn't imagine trying it with a handgun.

[subsonic]

I am thinking nearly tame squirrels and rabbits that could probably be taken with a rock and I don't really have to hit that many clays to annoy the guys with Perrazzis. But it would be nice to break a few when I do hit them. I realize the rifling mucks it up, but don't want to pay for the tax stamp or spend for a paradox.

[tek4260]

And don't be guilty of thought crime.... Like a liner bit or something similar to reduce the spin :)

[stubshaft]

I had a custom Encore 45/410 barrel with an internal choke. It was a ball to shoot with shotloads and a nightmare to get any accuracy with boolits. The patterns I got with the choke installed were about 80% in a 30" circle at 20 yds.. More than enough for a bunny or other critter. The internal choke worked great as targets shot without it gave big doughnut shaped patters with massive holes in them.

It was a fun barrel but lack of accuracy when shooting boolits caused me to sell it.

[subsonic]

And don't be guilty of thought crime.... Like a liner bit or something similar to reduce the spin :)

:redneck:

Just exactly what constitutes rifling? Guess I need to get out the CFR....

[stubshaft]

:redneck:

Just exactly what constitutes rifling? Guess I need to get out the CFR....

Rifling in a barrel are the groves that impart a rotational spin to the ball or bullet. An internal choke has straight grooves to arrest the rotation of the shot charge.:holysheep

[subsonic]

I know what rifling is. What I wondered was what the BATFEFGHIJK... definition of rifling is. Hence CFR = code of federal regulations. So I can make sure I don't have too much rifling:bigsmyl2:

[jh45gun]

I have a Encore with the 45 Colt/410 barrel. First thing I did was get some Williams Slugger sights which fit on the rib and are fiber optic. They work great. As was said 20 yards is A good pattern I have shot about ten grouse with mine so far and have not lost a bird yet. Squirrels are an other issue they are tough to kill. Rabbits should not be an issue either. As far as the 45 goes at 25 yards it shoots good. I have not tried it at 50 guess I will have to give that a try some day.

[captain awesome]

I have the 7.5" bfr w/ choke for 410. I can say they choke DOES make a big difference. no problem breaking clays and does give me a fairly tight pattern.

[subsonic]

I have a Encore with the 45 Colt/410 barrel. First thing I did was get some Williams Slugger sights which fit on the rib and are fiber optic. They work great. As was said 20 yards is A good pattern I have shot about ten grouse with mine so far and have not lost a bird yet. Squirrels are an other issue they are tough to kill. Rabbits should not be an issue either. As far as the 45 goes at 25 yards it shoots good. I have not tried it at 50 guess I will have to give that a try some day.

Is yours the 15"?

[subsonic]

I have the 7.5" bfr w/ choke for 410. I can say they choke DOES make a big difference. no problem breaking clays and does give me a fairly tight pattern.
Do you have any pattern pictures? I assume the clays are pretty close.

[Westwindmike]

Here are two patterns shot with my Contender 45/410 barrel. The load was using .444 brass, 2400 powder and just under 1/2 oz of #8 shot. The barrel has the internal, straight rifled choke.


The first is from 10 feet.
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j203/westwindmike/DSCN4585.jpg

The second is from 21 feet.
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j203/westwindmike/DSCN4586.jpg

[canyon-ghost]

#4 pheasant shot will increase your chances, let me look back and see if I took pictures.

[captain awesome]

Do you have any pattern pictures? I assume the clays are pretty close.

I don't, but I am hopefully taking it out this weekend, I will take some pics then. The clays I have busted I was throwing by hand, So I was probably hitting them somewhere in the realm of 15-25 yards.

[mellonhead]

I also have been down this road. I tried the Contenders and a Judge. Then I decided to build myself up a paradox like Bowen outlines in his book. The results where way better than I got with either of the other two.

Toby

[subsonic]

Toby, you've got to share more of that project! Got pics?

What caliber did you use?

[mellonhead]

I started with a brand spankin new 4 5/8 blued SBH in 44 Mag. I sent the barrel to Bowen to perform the back boring. I then tighted the cylinder by installing a oversized base pin and cylinder stop. I built a fixture to linebore it and reamed the chambers to .480 straight through so I could use shortened 460 S&W brass. So far I couldn't be happier with it. I'll try and post some pics of the build later tonight.

Toby

[jh45gun]

Is yours the 15"?

No I went with the 12 inch barrel.

[mellonhead]

http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv243/mellonhead1973/000_0010-1.jpg

http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv243/mellonhead1973/000_0011.jpg

http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv243/mellonhead1973/000_0014.jpg

http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv243/mellonhead1973/000_0074.jpg

http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv243/mellonhead1973/000_0065.jpg

http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv243/mellonhead1973/000_0072.jpg

Here are some pics from along the way!!

Toby

[subsonic]

Neat! What boolits do you shoot and how do you concoct the shotshells?

[mellonhead]

It shoots the RCBS 45-255-SWC and the RCBS 45-270-SAA very well. I load the shot shells with Hodgdon Clays with a felt wad on top of that with 5/8 oz. of #9 and an aluminum gas check topping it all off. It will do about 3"@50 from my knee if I do my part. The shot loads will put a full dose of #9's in a 18-20" circle at 20 yards.

Toby

[subsonic]

Impressive!

Still 4 5/8"?

Do you have any pics of the completed gun?

Do you still have that reamer setup?

This started life as a .44 mag, right?

How fast do you push the boolits?

[mellonhead]

Yeah its still 4 5/8. I can't seem to find the completed gun pics. Yup, I still have that fixture and the reamers. The fixture was a old ruger barrel that I trued up in a lathe and bored out to .4375. I then put the cylinder in a vise on a mill and reamed each chamber to .480. I load the bullet with 12 grains of HS6. Now I get more velocity from this gun than all the rest of my 45 Colts with the same loads. I'm thinking that load does about 1150 fps. Yeah it was a 44 mag.

Toby

[subsonic]

I have read the old Seyfried article about the paradox guns and will have to open my Bowen book.

Good work.

One thing for everyone that's not paying attention.... The bore is .429ish in this gun and a .452ish boolit is jumping down a larger smoothbore and hitting, what is basically a rifled choke near the muzzle. And stabilizing.

How long is the rifled section?

[mellonhead]

It has about an inch of rifling and about an inch of taper from the .452 smooth bore section. I always chuckle when someone says they are worried about sending a .002 over groove diameter bullet down the barrel. This thing shoots .452-.454 diameter bullets, but the last 1" of barrel is .429.

Toby