Muffin ingots, Teflon, High temps & Poison fumes

[shadowcaster]

Hi all..

I have been a member for a while now, and this is my first post. I must say that I have really enjoyed all the reading and information this site has to offer.

While explaining some of the smelting and casting that I have been doing to my brother, the subject of muffin pans and teflon came up. He told me that at high heat (500 degrees+) teflon emits various poisonous gases as the temps go up.

I decided to do some research and came across an interesting web site. Here is the web address: http://www.ecomall.com/greenshopping/teflon4.htm

I see a lot of guys are making ingots using muffin pans. All the ones I've seen at Walmart, Kmart and the like are all teflon coated. I personally use only cast iron or steel ingot molds.

I just thought I would pass this information along to the rest of you.

Shad

[letsmeltlead2693]

Go buy a Cracker Barrel brand cast iron pan. It makes pie shaped ingots that cool in less than 2 minutes. Higher cost than a muffin tin, but is durable and has no worry of toxic teflon fumes. It also makes easy to stack ingots.

[Budmen]

Yeah I have always wondered about that myself but Im not dead yet I always cast on a breezy day. You can find all kinds of things on how smelting pure lead can kill you too but ask around millions do it with no ill side effects

[letsmeltlead2693]

I'm 19 and melted lead since I was 17 or for about 2 years. I melted WW that made lots of smoke and fumes and pure lead. I have no side effects. Pure lead, in my opinion, is safer than WW because you don't have the fumes and burning paint to deal with. I have a teflon mini muffin tin and tried burning the coating off. Some burned off, but I use it for mini ingots or paper weights. You shouldn't get sick if you burned teflon off a muffin tin just once, but it is good for the environment if you don't. Cast iron works better as an ingot mold than the thin steel tins because ingots cool faster.

[popper]

Virgin teflon does make nerve gas when burned, I don't know about the various commercial teflon brands, but i would guess that as it is used for cooking, it is not dangerous.

[squirrelnuttz]

I wear a respirator while smelting anyway.So the worst I've had so far is some muffin ingots with a weird finish, only when pans are new, you can see the effect of the teflon cooking off on the first few dozen.In other words, really not a problem.

[Defcon-One]

Teflon = Bubbles in your muffin ingots, possible fumes and, if you take off your repirator, you can smell it, too. Not a good sign. It probably won't kill you unless you bend down and huff it, but why not just go outside in a light breeze? Then it's probably not a major issue.

Personally, I alway use cast iron or welded steel ingot molds. Problem solved!

[letsmeltlead2693]

I melt lead outside, without a respirator, even though I have a p100 hepa filter cartridge respirator sitting on the wall in the garage. I only wear it when melting down raw WW or painted lead. Cast iron works like a dream and make good ingots in a short time.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

There is a popular preoccupation with using muffin pans as they are often found in dollar or thrift stores. The tin coated ones won't let go of the ingots and have to be beaten out. Some advocates rust them to get them to work. Other users try the teflon coated ones and as has been found, teflon can give off noxious fumes. Cast iron works well if you can locate those little ash trays or a cheap muffin pan. The little ash trays are still produced by Lodge and sell in various outlet stores in the camping sections for about $4.95 each. The quickest and cheapest solution is found in the kitchen section of any Walmart....a little set of "Condiment Cups"(4) goes for around 90 cents. They're made of stainless steel. Four or five sets will still keep you around $4.00 and the stack is smaller than a small stack of poker chips. With 16 or 20 of them and a pair or ordinary pliers to turn them over you can make mountains of ingots all day long. Nothing sticks, smokes, stinks or wears out. You can fill the cups to different depths to get different sizes if you wish. The ingots are really small muffin shapes and stack ok if you invert them to fit together. Its not a big investment, doesn't take up hardly any room and seems to be a really practical solution. LLS

[Longwood]

Another happy condiment cup user here.
I like how I can make little silver dollar like ingots of metals I will only need small amounts of.
Some guys have used the sheet metal screws with a built in washer to mount them to a plank or piece of plywood.
Putting a hole in them can be a challenge.

[Echo]

There is such a trifling amount of teflon on a muffin pan that any noxious gas that comes off will be of such a small amount that it will be of no consequence. The teflon fear came about decades ago when a story (apocryphal) went around about a machinist who machined a piece of teflon on his lathe, chips flew out into the open pack of cigarettes in his shirt pocket, he smoked one, and died. Absolutely no confirmed record of this ever happening...

[AndyC]

The one I head years ago was about a doctor spray-painting his boat with a teflon-based paint while smoking. A spatter hit the lit tip of his cigarette and he dropped dead right there. Agan, no confirmation.

[Defcon-One]

There is such a trifling amount of teflon on a muffin pan that any noxious gas that comes off will be of such a small amount that it will be of no consequence....


I've got to agree with that statement. It just isn't that toxic! Not at our temps and in the small amounts we see.

I had a mini loaf pan the was steel with a teflon coating. In 10 minutes I sand blasted all of the teflon off of the insides. Now it is a bit rusty, but makes good small ingots and nothing sticks to the light rust. I did it to prevent the bubbles in the ingot surface, not out of fear of gases, but it worked great!

I hope nobody says, "Sandblasting will lead to Silicosis. That should be a new thread! LOL Cough, Cough!

I think they said it best in Platoon, "We all gotta die some time!" Be smart, be careful, but have fun, too!

[Longwood]

Where are the teenagers that post all of the "Stupid idiot tricks" on Youtube when we need one?

[shadowcaster]

I must say.. The opinions have been interesting! We all have to live with our own choices.

I agree with this statement.

I think they said it best in Platoon, "We all gotta die some time!" Be smart, be careful, but have fun, too!

[ga41]

my wife has been involved with exotic birds all her life, either in raising, selling or rescues. Numerous times she has been called in to determine causes of bird deaths that were directly related to teflon cookware. Bird in kitchen, teflon being used...dead bird... . It may or may not be toxic to humans, but there is an old thing about canary in the mine deal, better safe than sorry, and even if i wanted teflon, she would throw it out. LOL

[calaloo]

My daughter killed her parrot by leaving a teflon coated pan on a hot stove. Teflon emits toxic fumes when heated beyond a certain point.

[Defcon-One]

Over 550 degrees F, is what I heard. I also heard that Teflon is being phased out as a non-stick coating and must not be used after 2014.

I guess that we won't have polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE) to kick around anymore. The newer coatings are ceramic based and much more durable.

I also heard that if they tested your blood, there is a good chance that they would find Teflon in it. If you cook with it, you got it! I heard that most Americans do! (This is unconfirmed, but interesting!)


ga41: The worst job on earth? A canary in a coal mine! (It's a DEAD End Job!)

[letsmeltlead2693]

Also, teflon is derived from CFCs. CFCs deplete ozone so it helps to phase out teflon. They use HCFC-22 or Chlorodifluoromethane as a precursor to the manufacture of teflon. This is another subject, but just find a cheap steel tin or buy a cast iron cornbread pan and save the hassle of worrying about nonstick or fumes from nonstick. Cast iron is MUCH more durable than the muffin tins anyway.