25/20

[Four Fingers of Death]

My friend rang me with some questions last night.

He has been offered a pair of 92s, one in 32WCF and one in 25WCF. He said that both rifles had good wood, clean actions and half round/half oct bbs with excellent bores. I went on to tell him that they were an excellent buy at $AU250 each, which is about as much as you would get with a private sale here. He was really interested in the 32/20 and I said if he wanted to 'get rid' of the 25 cal one, I would take it (I'm right neighbourly :D)! Looks like I'm going to get it. I have never set out to buy one of these, but am really getting interested now that one is on the horizon. There was a 44WCF as well apparently, but he just missed that one.

Nowwwwwwww, I think there was a 25Cal group buy on, need dies and cases, moreeeeeeeeeeeeeee money to spend :(

[lar45]

Sounds like an excellent deal. Post pics when you get it. I'd love to find one. Need a bigger safe sometime though.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I just bought a big second hand safe, I have to get it home yet. Mick.

[Bret4207]

You may not know it yet, but you're about to become a very happy man. Fun, fun, fun! And should be enough for whatever god forsaken weird creatures you shoot down under that weigh less than say, 100-125 lbs.

[9.3X62AL]

I sure enjoy my 25-20's. The Marlin 94 started well with J-words from day one, but took a little time to start behaving with the castings. It seems to wnat to do the right things now.

The 25-20 might be the PERFECT jackrabbit and coyote caliber--boolits or bullets.

[Dale53]

I sure do like my modern Marlin 25/20 as many of you here already know. It may well be the perfect edible small game rifle. It ought to work well on 'roos, also, I would think (at reasonable ranges).

Dale53

[jwhite]

I am also another big 25-20 fan, quite possibly my favorite round. Good luck with your new toy and PM me if want any load/chronograph data.
Jerry

[Phil]

One of my all time favorite cartridges. I'll dig out my loading and chrono data later this weekend for you. you made a MOST EXCELLENT FIND.

Cheers,

Phil

[Bent Ramrod]

Mick,

Let me add my congratulations. A special-order 92 with half octagon barrel in the condition you describe would sell pretty readily at three times your cost in US dollars over here. A "serious collector" (a-hem!) with a bad case of gun jones might even go for four times in a moment of weakness. And the .25-20 is not only fun and accurate to shoot, it is big enough for a fair amount of experimentation with powders, bullets, boolits, lubes, etc, while being small enough for a huge amount of shooting for not much expense. You will definitely be able to amortize your mould and die costs on this one.

I favor the Ideal 257420 (solid or HP) myself, although I mess around with any design between 60 and 90 grains I can get my hands on.

Bent

[beemer]

My 25-20 is a Savage 23 with a old K4 Weaver scope. It is a pure delight to shoot.
Everyone that shoots it wants to take it home. I shoot AA#9 and the Lyman 257312 with excellent accuracy. My rifle is very sensitive to powder charge. When working up loads I make powder charge adjustments in 2 tenths of a grain. If I don't I'll run past the sweet spot.

Hope you get the rifle, you will enjoy it.
beemer

[Jack Stanley]

I had a Remington pump once that used 25-20 , it hadn't been well taken care of and was not a good candidate to see how well the round can do . I never did find another 25-20 that talked to me , but I do indeed like the little 32-20 that Browning made a few years back .
I might be tempted to buy all that goes with a new rifle purchase if I found a nice one at the show one of these days .

Jack

[ace1001]

Please tell me your 25-20 loads. Especially the AA#9. It could be used with WC820. Ace

[Four Fingers of Death]

I did end up getting it (I haven't actually got it home yet, but I will soon), it's a considerable distance away. Freight on a rifle here for that distance is about $75 and TNT are pretty much the only company that will handle guns now, so I will combine it with a hunt up that way and spend the money on gas, good excuse for another hunt :D. Naturally I'll take a couple of packets of factory loads with me to settle the rifle in. It was used extensively here on roos, etc and you can still buy ammo for it at every decent gunshop.

PS, If you are an aussie shooter ship TNT, the rest don't look after us and are bowing to left wing trade union pressure, give them the flick.

[Mohillbilly]

Mick I sure do like my 32-20 Marlin. I'd like to "find" a 25-20 and a 218 to match it.I'd like to wring them out and see what strikes my fancy.Once I had one of each I would'nt part with them.The problem would be which one to use for what......

[beemer]

Mick, glad you got the rifle. My shooting buddy has a 92 in 25-20, it is a great little rifle but a little sensitive to the ammo it uses. I had a RCBS plain base 85 gr. mould and he had and old Lyman 87 gr. GC mould. My 23 shot his better and his 94 shot mine the best,so we did the obvious thing.

ace1001, I don't know about WC820 is it similar to AA#9 ? I use a Lyman 257312 in my Savage 23,it a GC that pours about 87-90 grs.The powder ia AA#9 at 6.5 grs. The bullet is seated to touch the rifling and lubed with alox-beeswax. I think the vel. is about 1440.This load shoots 2 moa at 100 yds. Charges for these rifles are small so I make adjustments in 2 tenths grs. at a time.

Most of the guys that shoot mine love it but they don't want spend the time to find one and make it shoot. They buy a shoot a mile magnum with a scope as long as your arm that screws you in the ground when you shoot it. Thats fine because that leaves more for me.

beemer

[ace1001]

WC820 is 30cal. carbine powder and uses AA#9 data. A Win. 92 here brings at least 600 dollars. I sure wish could get deals like 4 FingerMick. I would have a cabinet full of them. Ace

[Bigjohn]

A Win. 92 here brings at least 600 dollars. I sure wish could get deals like 4 FingerMick. I would have a cabinet full of them. Ace

So would I! Unfortunately, one has to be near the deals and hear about them when they surface.

Good luck with it, Mick!

:drinks:
John

[Phil]

Heck, I've not seen a 92 sell for $600 in years around here. That would be a very good price. The average is over $900 in this neck of the woods.

Cheers,

Phil

[Four Fingers of Death]

We do alright on 92s and Martini Cadets out here :D, but dip out on everything else :(, don't get too jealous. Mick.

[uscra112]

Yup, the little .25-20 is a peach of a round. 85 grains is the best weight, although my .25-20 SS has done exceptionally well with 60 grainers, too. The problem for most shooters nowadays is that all the light .25 cal j-bulls are designed for the .25-06 or the Roberts cartridge, so they're too tough for the little guy. Which leads back to casting, of course.

[ace1001]

Is there any kind of arangement we can make where you sell us "Antique" 92s ??? Ace

[MT Gianni]

Is there any kind of arangement we can make where you sell us "Antique" 92s ??? Ace

Just call it American goods returning home when you hit Customs. It worked for Skeeter Skelton in the 60's. Gianni.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I bought some brass and dies yesterday and picked up a box of Core Lokts which were designed for the 25/20. They will keep me going until I get a mould organised. Mick.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Is there any kind of arangement we can make where you sell us "Antique" 92s ??? Ace

It might be possible, not through me, but through a dealer in Sydney. I have been thinking of getting my dealer's license. That might give me an excuse to do a business trip to the states every now and then :D

[ace1001]

Can you give us a name of a reputable person? Ace

[Four Fingers of Death]

Can you give us a name of a reputable person? Ace

I know a few good guys, I will check if they export and what they charge.
Mick.

[ace1001]

I would appreciate it greatly. Maybe we could get together a Crateful or two. Tell us about the gun law situation in your country. Feel free to vent a little, we are too complacent here and will soon lose our rights DESPITE our constitutional rights. Ace

[ace1001]

Hey, I just wondered if there were some lonely Win. 86s down there as well. Ace

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Its likely no lack of reloading info here when you are ready for it. Just anneal that brass after you fire it checking things out while you gather up your supplies. BvT

[ace1001]

Do you have to anneal? I don't anneal unless I have problems with necks cracking. Ace

[9.3X62AL]

Dunno about annealing, but some of the late-series Marlin 1894CL's in 25-20 WCF were "chambered long". Mine sure was. If I set the shoulders back by full-length sizing, in 3-4 firings incipient case head seperations appear. I have resolved this by neck sizing......I use a 25 ACP sizer die adjusted for the task. Redding makes a neck-sizer die also.

I should add that the 94CL got a little action last Thursday. Jackrabbits were not real numerous on a desert hunt that day, and one coyote sauntered away about 40 yards off the muzzle, about 1/4 speed as if unconcerned about his well-being. Quite disdainful, that--in light of the slow jackrabbit production rate. I sent along a Lyman #257420 about 1500 FPS over his ears, which prompted flank speed to his departure.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Are jack rabbits hares?

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Right after I got my Marlin classic 25-20 when they first came out, I shot a box of factory through it. A year later when I came back to those cases quite a few had split necks they didn't have at firing. Since then I always anneal cases after first firing, drive them pretty hard, partial neck size, anneal after three or four more firings if they are still alive then chuck after 2 more. 7 sometimes 8 firings. Almost always 14 grains+ of 1680 or 2200 under lead. Stout loads all. BvT

[woody1]

Are jack rabbits hares?

Yes. Regards, Woody

[9.3X62AL]

I see another vote for AA-1680 powder for this caliber. Gotta try that.

[felix]

Al, if you don't have 680 on the shelf, use RL7 for about the same performance. If RL7 works fine, use the same volume of 680 (more weight, but actually slower, giving about the same boolit speed) if and when you find that. Prolly close to a case full. ... felix

[9.3X62AL]

The RL-7 did good work in the 25-20, and it was almost 100% density. I've never had or tried 680, and didn't want to have 8# of it sitting around if it didn't pan out. I already have 7# of the Bartlett #7 taking up space a real powder could use. I don't think the powder measure has been engineered that is able to meter those little hockey pucks reliably--let alone accurately. It's a Lee Spoon proposition all the way.

It sounds like 680/AA-1680 is a close neighbor to the 4198's. Izzat correct?

[Scrounger]

The RL-7 did good work in the 25-20, and it was almost 100% density. I've never had or tried 680, and didn't want to have 8# of it sitting around if it didn't pan out. I already have 7# of the Bartlett #7 taking up space a real powder could use. I don't think the powder measure has been engineered that is able to meter those little hockey pucks reliably--let alone accurately. It's a Lee Spoon proposition all the way.

It sounds like 680/AA-1680 is a close neighbor to the 4198's. Izzat correct?

Remember with the 680/1680, as with all ball powders, they won't work worth a darn in reduced loads.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Using 4198 starting loads to work up from, I figure AA 1680 is near equal to 4198 up to 7.62 X 39 size of case at full power. Standard primers too. BvT

[9.3X62AL]

B von T--Got it, sir. In looking through the AA Manual, it looked pretty close to the 4198's.

Art--Yeah, figured on that. Winchester used to sell a "680" some years back, so I assumed it was spherical and in need of high density loading. Can't have EVERYTHING.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I have a tin of 680 downstairs somewhere (amongst thousands of other things:( )

[ace1001]

On the Great Plains we have 2 kinds of rabbit/hares. The cotton tail is short eared, fat and relatively slow, lives in grain country. Good eating. The other is long eared like a donkey or mule, thus "Jack" rabbit, as we call male donkeys. They are long, lean and fast, tough and not worth eating unless you are starving. They like dryer conditions. I would like to put them up against your roos to see which is the better survivor. Ace

[Four Fingers of Death]

On the Great Plains we have 2 kinds of rabbit/hares. The cotton tail is short eared, fat and relatively slow, lives in grain country. Good eating. The other is long eared like a donkey or mule, thus "Jack" rabbit, as we call male donkeys. They are long, lean and fast, tough and not worth eating unless you are starving. They like dryer conditions. I would like to put them up against your roos to see which is the better survivor. Ace

I thnk the jacks are like or the same as our hares (imported from england) they are big lean and quick and don't burroe, just have a bit of a scrape in the paddock.

They will make a worthy target for the 25/20 when I get it going.

The english cook them by hanging them for days s that the meat softens, then the 'jug' them, i.e slow cook in a stew style in a big crock pot or jug, hence the term 'Jugged Hard.' That's my impression of it, correct me if I'm wrong. I've always shot them over a spotlight and never picked them up, the farmer who is usually driving just drives on to the next one.

[ace1001]

Jackrabbit ears are maybe 5 inches long and black tipped, and give the impression of eyes when they hunker down and lay them against their back. I think they are native to the plains. 100 years ago there were almost no trees on the plains, due to grassfires, but now we have many trees and this favors the cottontail. I wonder if the lack of a den is the Jackrabbit's downfall. They stay in the open upland pastures and are disappearing. Ace

[MT Gianni]

We also have a large varieing hare or snowshoe rabbit that is about 3-4 lbs larger that a jack. They are mainly in the mountains in my exper. but your hares may be closer in size to them. Gianni

[9.3X62AL]

The black-tailed jackrabbits in the Mojave Desert don't burrow, either. They either hunker down in thorny thickets or flee from predators using their speed. They can easily outrun a solo coyote, and the song dogs prefer to let folks like us whack the jacks for them--rather than trying the fast food procedure. Many times while "walking up" jacks or quail, a quick "about-face" will show a coyote following about 150-200 yards behind, awaiting cripples or unretrieved kills like jacks.

The 25-20 is a SUPERB caliber for jackrabbit hunting.

[ace1001]

All rabbits seem to have the fatal flaw of wanting one last look back before reaching cover. Less than a second, but if you wait for it, it never fails.
Ace

[Baron von Trollwhack]

One of my old Lyman books lists the 257420 as "an Australian design for rabbits". BvT