Tell me about AA#9

[336A]

I have used H110 and 2400 for my full tilt .41 magnum loads. I've since dumped H110/296 for 2400 as I hate having to stock two different types of primers. I also don't like the fact that H110/296 has to be kept to about 90% load density in order for it to perform correctly. Lately I've seen more than a few folks mention AA#9. I never really looked into it before but it seems to be a pretty decent powder and it's right next 2400 on the burn rate chart.

So for those of you that use this powder can you tell me more about it. For instance what qualities does it have that makes you pick it over 2400; or any other powder as far as that goes?

[btroj]

I have used a bit of WC 820 which is very similar to AA9.
It doesn't really have a "property" that leads me to use it, it is more a case of what I can get and looking at the data in the manuals to see what powder might give the best ballistics.
I view AA9 as a good top end powder in many pistol cases, similar to 2400. It generally doesn't give the velocity that can be gotten with H110 but it is better with lower than max lads.

I bet many here use a certain powder more from tendency or tradition than due to actually testing or scientific research. Many of the older guys have almost always used 2400 so it is what they use.

I will say this- nothing tied up my RCBS measure like the little balls that are AA9. They got between the rotor and the housing and bound it up tight. That isone fine grained powder.

[subsonic]

AA9 is good stuff. You already pegged that it can be loaded down more than is recommended for H110 and 296 and that it does not need magnum primers and all loads I have tried performed better without them. It is cleaner than 2400 and I have read but not confirmed that it is flash suppressed. I have 3 RCBS uniflows and I have never had one tied up due to AA9, but that doesn't mean it can't happen. It meters very well I might add, but static on your scale pan or anything else will hold tiny granules of AA9 when it might not hang onto other powders.
AA9 is very close to 2400 and I have often used load data for 2400 when loading AA9 by working up and found it to produce a little more speed without any pressure signs.

I really like AA9 in my .357s. It made 1500fps from my 2.5" 686 with a 125 xtp using a book load and was very accurate in my 6" 686.

I have an 8lb jug of it.

[Guesser]

I've been using it since 1987. All the magnum handgun rounds and 30 Carbine, 256 Winchester magnum, 22 Hornet, 221FB with cast boolits, and probably some others. Need to check my record, I don't own a lot of the guns that I started with.

[lbaize3]

AA#9 is my favorite powder. I use it in .454, .480. .327, 32-20. 30 carbine, .357mag, .357max, 44 mag and special, and probably several others I have forgotten. It is a bit slower burning than 2400, but still close in performance. It does not need a mag primer and is very clean burning. Give it a try.

[felix]

Sundog and I have several versions of it, and each one shows a very smooth top end, actually too smooth. Too smooth means adding more powder, the velocity goes down as well as the pressure. That means the granules for this powder are small enough to clog up the primer action. So, after several hours of research at the "range" it has been determined the economical load is where the balls actually are obviously smaller when looking down the barrel in noon-day sun as compared to those unfired. Another half grain for good measure is the ideal load for all the AA9/820 versions out there. This rule for pistol cases. ... felix

[btroj]

Interesting comment Felix. That ,ay explain why I got the results I did in my Marlin 1894 in 357. With a 359640 bullet I used WC820'from 13 to 14.5 grains. From 13.5 to 14.5 I got little extra velocity. Velocity didn't go down but it barely went up. Pressure didn't seem a problems. I did find it interesting that accuracy was better the harder I pushed that bullet.

Never tough of it being due to the small little balls of powder almost snuffing out the primer flash. Interesting concept. It makes sense though as those little balls could pack in so tight that they compress into a solid mass. Not much air space in that compressed charge.

Interesting.

[subsonic]

Felix and btroj, were you both experiencing this with magnum primers, or with standard?

[btroj]

I used std primers. I can't tell you the last time I used a mag primer in a handgun. I don't see a need, especially in a small case like a 357 mag.

[Whiterabbit]

I use lots of #9. I liked it for the same reason you said. you can download it and it's good. LEE 2nd edition says you can go to 50% case fill and be OK. So here's what I did:

I have a load that NEEDS just over 50% case fill to shoot accurate. Fine. I use mag primers as insurance. Wanting to try the alternative, I tried regular primers. Got scary results, pull the trigger, nothing happens, gun goes off 1 second later. I put a stop to that. No problems with mag primers.

"normal" loads, no problem. Actually, "normal" h110 loads, no problem with std primers.

Anyways, I still like #9, and I still download it and like it. but I definitely use mag primers for extreme downloading.

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ties up my drop too, but not bad. Just gets stiff for a few drops, then it works its way out and is smooth again. Just goes with the territory. Even when it binds up from a grain getting in there, it meters like a DREAM.

[uscra112]

I use it in my .25-21 Stevens, loaded to a very modest pressure (12K psi according to Quickload). I use the mildest small pistol primers. Result is better S.D. over the Chrony than anything else I've tried. A good powder for reduced loads in my book.

Not using it in pistol cartridges, the better to conserve my supply.

[felix]

There has been a reported SEE with a AA9 lot using a 30/32 caliber case, the volume of which I don't remember for certain. Something like a 32 Miller case, or something of that order, which is a modified 357 pistol case. The application was one of breach seating in a BR gun. Be careful with reduced loads. If one load is working horizontally, be leery of changing angles of the gun while targeting, et.al. Consider at least a wad of Kleenex in those apps, with a SOFT shooting primer. ... felix

[Lloyd Smale]

My chronograph and accuracy testing shows a bit differnt then most here. Ive allways got more consistant velocitys and better accuracy with mag primers. As a matter of fact the hottest pistol primer the cci 350 has allways been the star for accuracy using 820 or aa9 for me. this is doubly so if you use it for downloading which i dont do much. Its a much better power for higher end to top end loading. If i want less velocity ill stick with 2400. Now thats a powder ive had better luck using standard primers the mags.

[rexherring]

I've used the H110 and W296 in my .45 LC Ruger. I like the #9 better due to cleaner burn and less muzzle flash. Had very good results and shot my last three mule deer with it. I always use mag primers and work my loads with them.

[freedom475]

A4100 has always seemed to preform better for me...it is real close to #9 (A4100 is the same excact powder as Ramshot Enforcer)

[ubetcha]

A4100 has always seemed to preform better for me...it is real close to #9 (A4100 is the same excact powder as Ramshot Enforcer)

I happen to notice in the latest Lee 2 edition that Alliant and Ramshot have the same company address

[freedom475]

I happen to notice in the latest Lee 2 edition that Alliant and Ramshot have the same company address
Yes they are both sold through Western Powder of Miles City MT.

[subsonic]

How clean is Enforcer? Where does it fall compared to 2400, AA9 and H110/296 for speed?

I can't find a burn rate chart that lists it.

[336A]

Subsonic here is a link to a powder burn rate chart for you http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html

[subsonic]

Thanks! Hadn't seen that one.

Interesting that 4100 and enforcer stradle #9.

I often wonder if St. Marks doesn't just brew up something and whatever it's closest to, they label it as that. If it's a little slow, instead of throwing it away, they just call it "X", whereas if it's a little faster they call it "Y".

[felix]

https://sites.google.com/site/hobbyhintstricksideas/Home/s-w-329pd-info

Good analysis here. ... felix

[felix]

Subsonic, I agree 10,000 percent! All these appear to be different lots of WC820 powders. Those that do not meet CURRENT specs are sold off no doubt as different names by the buyers. I suspect ENFORCER is one of the many. ... felix

[subsonic]

After looking at that link and comparing the data, it looks like Enforcer is taking a grain or two more to get the same velocity.

Of course, that is assuming all other variables were equal at the time of testing.....

I'm happy with my potion #9.

[felix]

Moral of the story: Buy the cheapest in the speed range desired. ... felix

[freedom475]

Thanks! Hadn't seen that one.

Interesting that 4100 and enforcer stradle #9.



It is funny to see that chart..But I think 4100/enforcer is a little slower than No9.

Not sure about No.9 being the same , but I do Know For Sure..that A4100 and Enforcer come from the same powder hopper..Just depends on what label is on the jug that is being filled.

[williamwaco]

I have used 2400 for max handgun loads since before 1960.

I orignally bought a can of Accurate No. 9 during the scare caused by the election of the obomination that is destroying our freedom.

I bought it because it was cheaper than 2400 and because I couldn't get 2400 anywhere.
I really like it. When 2400 became available, I bought a can for "inventory" but I haven't opened it. Havent used it since I started using No.9.

I do not consider it to be better than 2400. I just fell into the habit out of necessity and now see no reason to go back.

[subsonic]

It is funny to see that chart..But I think 4100/enforcer is a little slower than No9.

Not sure about No.9 being the same , but I do Know For Sure..that A4100 and Enforcer come from the same powder hopper..Just depends on what label is on the jug that is being filled.

I guess considering your location, I will take your word for that. [smilie=1:

[felix]

Different lots have different speeds, different barrel vibes, different heat generated, different ignition, etc. And, don't forget different storage conditions. ... felix

[Lloyd Smale]

companys like ramshot, scott and accurate arms made there money repackaging surplus powders into pretty jugs and selling them to the same guys that bad mouth surplus powders ;)

[336A]

Felix thanks for the link above, it's very informative.

[454PB]

i had consistent hangfires using AA#9 and light bullets in my first .454 Casull.

I later bought some WC820 and found it to be nearly identical to AA#9 in burn rate (determined by chronographing), however, AA#9 and wc820 laid side by side are distinctly different in appearance.

Later yet, I had a squib load using WC820 and a light boolit in my .454.

Bottom line is that these two powders share a lot of the same characteristics......both good and bad.

I don't shoot any reduced charge or light boolits when using either one. I treat them both the same as I treat H-110 or WW296.....including magnum primers.

[shotstring]

AA#9 is supposedly the cat's meow for 357 sig loadings because it fills up the case entirely. That eliminates possibility of a double charge but more importantly allows the slug to rest on the powder so it doesn't retract into the brass case under recoil. Downside is bright muzzle flash.

I have never loaded for a 41 mag but would guess it would fill a big part of the case making a double charge at least more apparent. Don't know what other advantages it may have.

[evan price]

I prefer #9 over w296/h110 because even though w296/h110 will get slightly higher velocities I find them to not offer anything better in terms of accuracy than #9 does, and I can use #9 safely in a lot more applications than I can the w296/h110 powder. Heck, I think I even saw some #9 loads for little mousegun calibers somewhere.

I got a bottle of #9 in a lot of stuff I traded for once, and tried it, and it was pretty good. Never went back.

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive had squib loads with it alot before i went to mag primers. Personaly i think its harder to light off then 110 in any pressure range. No big deal to me. I cant see why guys are bullhead against using mag primers with it. they cost no more or very little more.
i had consistent hangfires using AA#9 and light bullets in my first .454 Casull.

I later bought some WC820 and found it to be nearly identical to AA#9 in burn rate (determined by chronographing), however, AA#9 and wc820 laid side by side are distinctly different in appearance.

Later yet, I had a squib load using WC820 and a light boolit in my .454.

Bottom line is that these two powders share a lot of the same characteristics......both good and bad.

I don't shoot any reduced charge or light boolits when using either one. I treat them both the same as I treat H-110 or WW296.....including magnum primers.

[subsonic]

In my 6" .357 while testing loads, accuracy was consistently better with standard primers.
My loads were always Pretty hot, and I never had any hangfires or squibs.

In my 2.5" gun I never got around to accuracy testing, but all the loads I shot in it were with mag primers and were also top end loads. That gun was set up for social work.

[btroj]

I had some squibs in 44 mag with WC820. It was my fault as I had insufficient neck tension and a wimpy crimp. We back and added a firmer crimp to the remaining rounds and no ore squibs.

I really like the AA9 type powders. They work well, measure like water, and are useful for a number of cartridges.

[Iron Mike Golf]

I am really in the beginning of exploring #9. So far with my Redhawk Hunter 44, a Mihec 255 SWC over 20.0 gr #9 looks real promising.

I also want to try it in my 45 Colt BH using a cast 270 gr HP.

[williamwaco]

companys like ramshot, scott and accurate arms made there money repackaging surplus powders into pretty jugs and selling them to the same guys that bad mouth surplus powders ;)

You can add Hodgdon to that list.

The second "cannister" of Hodgdon powder I bought was a steel keg holding 50 pounds of 4198.

It took me and four buddies several years to use it all up.



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[rexherring]

I am really in the beginning of exploring #9. So far with my Redhawk Hunter 44, a Mihec 255 SWC over 20.0 gr #9 looks real promising.

I also want to try it in my 45 Colt BH using a cast 270 gr HP.
Works great in my 7 1/2 inch BH with a 255 gr RCBS SWC and 18.5 grs of A#9. I've shot several deer and it works great.

[Lloyd Smale]

you bet william. thats just how hodgdon started there bussiness. your showing your age though ;)
You can add Hodgdon to that list.

The second "cannister" of Hodgdon powder I bought was a steel keg holding 50 pounds of 4198.

It took me and four buddies several years to use it all up.



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