New Microgroove barrel

[flyingstick]

Well I got my old Revelation 30-30 back from Marlin 3 weeks ago with a brand new microgroove barrel. They did a good job and did it all for only $130. I've been shooting it almost everyday since but can't get it right. So i need advice. Im using a Lee 309-170F mould with gas checks. Iv'e tried 2400, Reloder 7 and Imr 3031 with every imaginable variation I can in .5 grn increments. The gun will shoot great with all 3 powder types out to 60 yards.
After 60 yards they all start opening up. I mean up to 14'', off a bench. The boolits go completly erratic. My mould is throwing out boolits .299 from the crimp line to the noseand .310 on the driving bands. Does the nose of the boolit need to fill the grooves? cause it ain't even touching now. I slugged the end of the barrel to .304.

Tried 2400 from 12 gr. up to 18, 12 shot great at 60 but no farther.
R7 from 14 gr to 25gr . 20 gr good again out to 60 but no farther.
IMR 3031 24 gr to 31 gr. no good at all past 60.

Any suggestions? I've read every post there is on 30-30's I can find.
Thanks

[BABore]

I don't have that mold, but if it is the one I'm thinking about, it does have a bore ride nose. If you got a 0.399 bullet nose flopping around in a 0.304 bore diameter, you gots big problems. No support. It should be 0.300-0.302". What does the barrel's groove diameter mic at? If that checks out within reason, you may have to go with a different bullet style that is more conductive to your barrel, throat, and chamber geometery. If the groove diameter is equally big, you might want to get back ahold of Marlin and see what they'll do about it. Microgroove rifling is usually pretty shallow.

[Scrounger]

Well I got my old Revelation 30-30 back from Marlin 3 weeks ago with a brand new microgroove barrel. They did a good job and did it all for only $130. I've been shooting it almost everyday since but can't get it right. So i need advice. Im using a Lee 309-170F mould with gas checks. Iv'e tried 2400, Reloder 7 and Imr 3031 with every imaginable variation I can in .5 grn increments. The gun will shoot great with all 3 powder types out to 60 yards.
After 60 yards they all start opening up. I mean up to 14'', off a bench. The boolits go completly erratic. My mould is throwing out boolits .299 from the crimp line to the noseand .310 on the driving bands. Does the nose of the boolit need to fill the grooves? cause it ain't even touching now. I slugged the end of the barrel to .304.

Tried 2400 from 12 gr. up to 18, 12 shot great at 60 but no farther.
R7 from 14 gr to 25gr . 20 gr good again out to 60 but no farther.
IMR 3031 24 gr to 31 gr. no good at all past 60.

Any suggestions? I've read every post there is on 30-30's I can find.
Thanks

More powder. Your velocity is falling off to much beyond 60 yards to maintain stability. If you want to shoot .32-20 speeds, get a .32-20. get your .30-30 bullets up above 1600 fps to get stability out to 150 yards.

[Maven]

flyingstick: I have the bullet mold you mentioned and a Marlin MG in .30-30Win. As Scrounger indicated, it's not the powder, but the undersized CB: My mold casts ~.2995" on the nose and .309" on the body and it doesn't perform well in my Marlin either. For that matter, neither does Ly. #311291 or #31141 because of the undersized noses (I know this is heresy, but they're terrible.) You may want to look for a used Lyman #311466 (not a -466"U"/undersized) or Saeco #315 and size either to .310" or .311" depending on your bore.

[woody1]

stick, If you can get proper boolit fit, your 30-30 should shoot just fine. BUT you are shooting a pretty heavy boolit and stabilization could be a problem at some (but not nearly all) of the loads you've listed. You do need that boolit to fit and as important as anything is the nose fit. Can you get any engraving on the boolit nose if you just stick it in the muzzle end of the barrel? NO? That's a problem. Yes, then something else is the problem. Was it me, I'd try Beagling your mould. I've been successful in getting the nose diameter up on 311291's and 311041's. For now, I'd Beagle the whole thing because even at .310 in the body, I'll bet you could use more. Now that I've said all that, I doubt you will get up to .304 on the nose but the price is right. Just give that mould two layers of tape, cast some boolits and see how the nose fits in the muzzle. It you're really at .304, I think you're out of spec. Sure seems large to me. Regards, WOody

[flyingstick]

Thanks folks, I suspected the boolit was too small. And yes, when I drop it in from the muzzle it drops in to the bands and then has some slop. I'm going to size down some of my .303 185 grn boolits to .311 and give them a try. I'll also see how much beagling will open up the nose on the 309-170f.

[grouch]

Why don't you check your twist rate? If it's no slower than 1 in 12 you can shoot bullets up to 1 1/4" long or so and hold accuracy to al least 100 yds, and I expect further, although I haven't done much at 200 yet. You could try 311299 - mine has a .305 nose cast in 20:1, and has grouped well under 1" at 100 yds for me, although not with a micogroove barrel. You could also try Lee's .303 Brit. mold.

Like I said, stabilization shouldn't be a problem. I've seen the mold you have give pretty decent results in a microgroove barrel, but that barrel was very tight - less than .300 bore diameter.

Best of luck. Grouch

[Bret4207]

31. gr 3031 should give all the speed you need, so I'd suspect the boolit is undersize. The .311 idea you had should help, maybe even try it unsized.

[Char-Gar]

My thoughts on the issue at hand.

1) If your rifle won't shoot well with 14 to 16 grains of 2400, then your problem isn't the powder or charge.

2) What does, "I sluged the end of the bore to .304" mean? Does that mean the diameter across the lands at the muzzle is .304 or what?

3) You don't mention what alloy your are using.

4) Like others I tend to think your bullets are too small. You need the body to be .310 to .311 and the nose the same size or .001 larger than diameter across the lands. It that is indeed .304 then you need a bullet .304 to .305 on the nose and those are not plentiful.

5) The goodnews is "not plentiful" does not mean unavailable. SAECO 305 is THE 30-30 bullet for the MG barrel. Don't let it bother you that SAECO calls it a 31 cal or for the .303 British. It will give you the diameter you want on both the nose and body.

6) If you rifle won't shoot SAECO 305, cast from Lyman no 2 or alloy of like hardness, sized .311, over 14 to 16 grains of 2400, then it isn't going to shoot anything, and your problem is not the ammo.

[flyingstick]

Well you guys are right, the nose diameter is way too small. I've beagled just the bottom of the mould and got the nose of the boolit to increase from
.299 to .303. And I gave the wrong diameter earlier. It's not a .304 groove it's a .308. The boolits are engraving the rifling when I chamber them now since opening up the nose to .303. Is it desirable to have the bullet up against the rifling when it's chambered?

[pumpguy]

flyingstick
chargar has it right. I shoot 16-18gr of 2400 behind 311041 bullets. These are water quenched WW. I size them to .311 and shoot 1 to 1.5" at 100 yards. Microgrooves WILL shoot cast just fine. You have to shoot them pretty fat to get them to stabilize, though. It may not hurt to shoot a few J word factory loads through the gun to smooth out the "new". Afterward, clean the copper out and never ever shoot those again!:-)