fluxing with sawdust-I'm impressed

[1bluehorse]

Okay, so I'm a bit cynical and maybe a little hard-headed. Been reading about the use of "sawdust" for fluxing for quite a while. Even read the fluxing thing on LASC? site. Tried it for the first time this morning, had to use wood pellets as thats what I have handy. I'll be honest with you, I was very skeptical as to it's working as well as what was indicated on some of the webs I've read. You know, the internet BS. To say I'm impressed is a bit of an understatement. Not only did a really good job of fluxing, it also CLEANED THE POT! Well not completly, but after a couple more times it will. Was bringing up a really fine reddish tinted "dust" around the edges while cleaning the melt. Assuming rust. Also, and believe this or not, the Lee pot I was using stopped dripping...not kidding...stopped...We'll see how long this lasts. I bought a new RCBS Pro melt just a week or so ago, still in the box, may just wait awhile before breaking it in. No mistake, the RCBS is a much nicer pot and I don't mind the money spent for a quality tool, but I think I'll keep using the Lee a while longer and see how clean it gets and whether or not it really stops leaking. Call it an experiment....also want to get a little more experience with the fluxing so as not to "mess up" my new pot. Thanks to whoever came up with this idea, and thanks to you all for continuing to beat it into some of us doubters head...

[skeet1]

1bluehorse,
That's how it was with me also, I thought it was BS too till I tried It about a year ago. I just went to the lumber yard and got a large coffee can of saw dust, they were happy to see it go and told me to come back anytime I needed more.

Well, it worked so well that is all I use now.

Ken

[Hardcast416taylor]

Dump out your pencil sharpener into a container and use that for flux - works great!Robert

[cajun shooter]

If you find wood shavings they work better than sawdust. Pat Marlin sells the wood shavings that are from cedar or like trees. It works great and he puts enough in the box to last a year or more. After fluxing you add a few pinches to the alloy to keep it from oxidation and the wife even enjoys the smell .

[lbaize3]

I was the same way, having cast years ago using wax to flux. I tried other things with about the same amount of success. When I started using saw dust and wood shavings, I was amazed. Shavings work well for fluxing. Saw dust is great to place on top of the melt to keep oxidation down...

[StratsMan]

+1 on lbaize3...

Though I use a variant (stir with a new wood paint stick), I'm getting the same results others are talking about... cleaner melt, cleaner pot, less Lee-leak (don't think that will ever be cured), and a generally more pleasant casting experince!!!

[filric48]

I have wood shavings I use to light my pellet stove I think they have wax on them, I wonder how that would work?

[Hardcast416taylor]

For all you hairy chested woodsmen with chainsaws and cut up dry dead trees. Save the chips from the saw add a good handful into a garage sale food blender and make your own sawdust.Robert[smilie=w:

[dragonrider]

Forget the waxed shavings and use the pellets.

[DavZee]

I cut up a lot of pallets for the shop wood stove so I've got lots of sawdust. I'm wondering how much smoke does it make when your fluxing with sawdust? How much are you putting in the pot? I've got a 20lb pot. Do you keep adding it or just one time per pot full?

[shovel80]

I tried the paint stick last time I cast, and it worked Great!..Just gotta put it in slow, because of possible moisture in the wood!..It wants to spit and sputter at first!

Terry

[oneokie]

I cut up a lot of pallets for the shop wood stove so I've got lots of sawdust. I'm wondering how much smoke does it make when your fluxing with sawdust? How much are you putting in the pot? I've got a 20lb pot. Do you keep adding it or just one time per pot full?

Amount of smoke depends on what type of wood and the moisture content. I use from 2 heaping teaspoons full to a handfull, depending on circumstances.

[Longwood]

Forget the waxed shavings and use the pellets.

I smelted around 450 pounds of wheel weights, pure lead, tin and Linotype last year.
I cast about 6000 357, 45 Colt, 30-30, and huge 45-70 bullets that I also smelted the lead for and can't count.
I tried several Mahogany shavings, then remembered I had pellets. Iwet about 2 inches in a can then let them dry. I did that twice for all the chips I needed for all of that lead.

We smelted about 100 lbs of wheel weights, at least 50 lbs of scrap and tin plus cast about 600, 357 bullets two days ago.
We used Alder pet bedding from walmart. I took with me all I could stuff into a one pound coffee can. Probably about one twentieth of the small bag.
We used almost all of it. way less than a dollars worth.
The pellets are an even better bargain. I figure I could smelt over five tons with a five dollar bag.

[Lefty SRH]

All this fluxing talk.....When do you flux, in the smelting pot or in the production pot when you start a casting session?
I don't have access to any wood chips/shavings or saw dust either.
How is it done? Toss the shavings in and stir thoroughly and then skim off the floating junk? Then pour your melt into the ingot trays?
I'm ready to test my new smelting pot and would like to know the fluxing procedure.

[oneokie]

All this fluxing talk.....When do you flux, in the smelting pot or in the production pot when you start a casting session?
I don't have access to any wood chips/shavings or saw dust either.
How is it done? Toss the shavings in and stir thoroughly and then skim off the floating ****? Then pour your melt into the ingot trays?
I'm ready to test my new smelting pot and would like to know the fluxing procedure.

Both. When smelting, it helps to add some used motor oil or used ATF to the sawdust. Fluxing when casting can help clean up the alloy even more and reduce/prevent oxidation while casting by the fact that a layer of sawdust charcoal on the surface acts as an oxygen barrier. If one is ladle casting, one has to flux and skim regularly.

[Hang Fire]

I buy the crushed walnut shells at Petsmart for tumbling media, they also work great as a flux.

[bfuller14]

I had what I thought was a bad batch of lead. Then I remembered the saw dust article I read. So I tried it and it cleaned everything up. Worked better than anything else I have used.

[geargnasher]

Light the smoke, it stinks less and makes more carbon monoxide on the melt's surface which is GOOD for reducing oxides to elemental metals.

Gear

[gandydancer]

OK! one more dumn butt thing. why do you wet the pellets and then let them dry? and do you cover all the lead in the pot with the pellets?? GD

[Splatter]

Wetting the pellets lets them "fall apart" making it more like sawdust than pellets.
And 5 bux buys you a 40 lb bag of the stuff!

[a.squibload]

Doesn't take a lot of pellets to make lots of sawdust, they swell up when wet.
Works great for flux (after drying), and smokes less than wax or boolit lube.



I buy the crushed walnut shells at Petsmart for tumbling media, they also work great as a flux.

How big are the pieces? Gotta go to Petsmart anyway.
I was gonna switch to corncob media 'cause my walnut shell stuff
keeps getting stuck in the primer holes.
Maybe I got the wrong size.

Anybody know the best place to get corncob media?


1bluehorse: you could make a 2-stage setup, some guys stack their pots
so when the bottom one runs low the top one is already melted.

[44 WCF]

Question on Sawdust. I've used powdered charcoal, BBQ briquettes though my thrift store blender to cover melt in my Maste Caster for Years, no smoke at all, If it put in the charcoal when the melt is low it helps scrub or pickup the residue on the sides of the lead pot as I add more ingots. but to clean the smelt, does the sawdust help in cleaning the smelt itself, I've always thought you had to use wax or Marvelux to relieve the surface tension of the melt so the crud will float and then be skimmed. After I have all the WW clips etc skimmed, I turn off the heat, add 1/2 cup Crisco and stir, scraping sides with a spatula and the bottom of the melter with a long handled gasket scraper and sttir some more, then add big handful of 1/4" corn cob, (gerbil litter). It soaks up the crisco and all the crud leaving a mirror bright surface, but if sawdust will bring crud to the surface I can see big labor and time reduction. Anyone with how sawdust helps clean the crud would sure be appreciated.
Thanks
44 WCF

[Lefty SRH]

What wood pellets are you guys talking about? Where do you buy them? I plan on giving my new smelting pot a test run today and would like to flux the melt IF everything goes ok.

[Lefty SRH]

Otherwise I'll be using cedar shavings (pet bedding) for rodent pets from the pet store.

[Longwood]

OK! one more dumn butt thing. why do you wet the pellets and then let them dry? and do you cover all the lead in the pot with the pellets?? GD

Be prepared to have about 5 times as much small chips as you had pellets.
A bag of 40 pounds will probably fill a couple of large trash cans.
Store unused pellets where they will not get wet.
Another nice thing about the pellets is there is very little dust in them, mostly itty bitty chips.

[Longwood]

What wood pellets are you guys talking about? Where do you buy them? I plan on giving my new smelting pot a test run today and would like to flux the melt IF everything goes ok.

Walmart, Home Depot, Lowe's.
Many lumber yards and wood lots also.

[Lefty SRH]

LOL, what is the "normal" or intended use of these pellets?

[oneokie]

LOL, what is the "normal" or intended use of these pellets?

Pellet stoves. Those new fangled wood stoves.

[dsmjon]

I've been using paint stir sticks (free with each trip into Agent Orange...), as well as carpenter's pencils (although I scrape the paint off the pencils).

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[mdi]

Along with sawdust, I use some sticks to stir the melt. At the hardware srore I found a bundle of "wedges", prolly 24 in the bundle; mystery wood slats 1"x12"x 1/4" and tapering down to sharp point, I believe they're used for shimming/leveling. Just a hair larger than a paint stick and unfinished/rough. The bundle cost less than $5.oo as best as I can remember and they make perfect stir sticks.

[gandydancer]

thanks very much for the info splatter. I will get some. GD

[Lefty SRH]

Just my luck, I go to my local Lowes to pick up a burner and wood pellets for my 1st attempt with my newly built smelting pot. NO wood pellets (they don't sell them), and the only burner they had was the dispaly and the employee said it was missing parts....no smelting today.

[Longwood]

Along with sawdust, I use some sticks to stir the melt. At the hardware srore I found a bundle of "wedges", prolly 24 in the bundle; mystery wood slats 1"x12"x 1/4" and tapering down to sharp point, I believe they're used for shimming/leveling. Just a hair larger than a paint stick and unfinished/rough. The bundle cost less than $5.oo as best as I can remember and they make perfect stir sticks.

A long wood handled spoon with a flat side and end will work much better.
I asked for free paint sticks everytime I went in a home center after reading about using them here.
I cast some bullets and used them until I got tired of the junk they leave in the least desirable area of the pot. Under the melt.
I even got some of the ones for the five gallon buckets for smelting but don't use them either.
No more spitin and spewin so my welders glove just lays around like a retired coon hound.
I don't paint much so I now have some flat wood stips that I can use, but what for I don't know.

[Longwood]

I guess it is maybe time for me to start making up some wooden handled casting pot scrapers.
I can make and sell them pretty inexpensively and mail them in a priority or lower rate envelope.
Any of you guys interested.
I don't want to bother making one or two but if I can do a few at a time I will.

[Sonnypie]

Doesn't take a lot of pellets to make lots of sawdust, they swell up when wet.
Works great for flux (after drying), and smokes less than wax or boolit lube.




How big are the pieces? Gotta go to Petsmart anyway.
I was gonna switch to corncob media 'cause my walnut shell stuff
keeps getting stuck in the primer holes.
Maybe I got the wrong size.

Anybody know the best place to get corncob media?


1bluehorse: you could make a 2-stage setup, some guys stack their pots
so when the bottom one runs low the top one is already melted.

Here Squibload:
PETCO ZILLA BRAND
(http://www.petco.com/product/102881/Zilla-Ground-English-Walnut-Shells-Reptile-Bedding.aspx?CoreCat=OnSiteSearch)

I got a 10 quart bag when I bought mine. Works fine for 30-06 and 45 ACP casings.
But my Lyman 3200 tumbler was dieing. I finally went with STM for case cleaning.
One day I decided to try the Zilla ground English shells for flux. Works great!
Even the wife likes the smell of the hardwood fluxing the melt.

And it is a very clean hardwood flux. No pitch or glues in it.

So it can be a two-fer for anybody who wants to use it for a tumbler AND as a flux.

I still use it in my smaller Midway tumbler as well. [smilie=p:

[Budmen]

Wow guess Ill have to try the wood shavings thing. Should be no problem just out the the horses stall better watch for apples though

[tomf52]

a.squibload - Grainger Industrial has 20/40 screen size corn cob media in a forty pound bag for less than $20. Was this price when I bought it about two years ago anyway.

[Ed in North Texas]

Just my luck, I go to my local Lowes to pick up a burner and wood pellets for my 1st attempt with my newly built smelting pot. NO wood pellets (they don't sell them), and the only burner they had was the dispaly and the employee said it was missing parts....no smelting today.

I think we're too far South to find wood pellets. Up North in the late summer they advertise them priced by the ton!

[oneokie]

I think we're too far South to find wood pellets. Up North in the late summer they advertise them priced by the ton!

Check local locations of Farm Supply stores.

[Ed in North Texas]

Question on Sawdust. I've used powdered charcoal, BBQ briquettes though my thrift store blender to cover melt in my Maste Caster for Years, no smoke at all, If it put in the charcoal when the melt is low it helps scrub or pickup the residue on the sides of the lead pot as I add more ingots. but to clean the smelt, does the sawdust help in cleaning the smelt itself, I've always thought you had to use wax or Marvelux to relieve the surface tension of the melt so the crud will float and then be skimmed. After I have all the WW clips etc skimmed, I turn off the heat, add 1/2 cup Crisco and stir, scraping sides with a spatula and the bottom of the melter with a long handled gasket scraper and sttir some more, then add big handful of 1/4" corn cob, (gerbil litter). It soaks up the crisco and all the crud leaving a mirror bright surface, but if sawdust will bring crud to the surface I can see big labor and time reduction. Anyone with how sawdust helps clean the crud would sure be appreciated.
Thanks
44 WCF

While I have Brownell's Marvelux, and it does work well for a bottom pour pot, I've used sawdust for about the past 20 years or more. The crud will float if you stir well enough. Obviously the clips will float no matter what.

Ed

[Ed in North Texas]

Check local locations of Farm Supply stores.

I don't think* my TSC carries them, but then we usually don't have as much cold weather as even my relatives in the Lawton area get and they are further south in OK than you would be (Green Country?).

Ed

* Have to admit that I own a table saw and haven't looked for them for this reason - and my wood stove gets the house too hot to be used much (and isn't a pellet stove either).

[Lefty SRH]

I think we're too far South to find wood pellets. Up North in the late summer they advertise them priced by the ton!

Whats the next best alternative? I plan on ordering some of Pat Marlins CFF but I'd like to give my new smelting pot a test run this weekend if the weather is right.

[oneokie]

If you have any charcoal briquettes, crush one up, or use the fines in the bottom of the bag.

[Longwood]

I make spoons like this for scraping the sides and bottom of the pot.
This one is not quite finished but you can see how I cut the spoon so it has a very sharp edge and end.
They work much better than a rounded spoon or stick which also adds little pieces of crud to your melt.
A piece of junk in a bullet is rare when I use one.

[Arnie]

I was watching a show called How Its Made on a cable channel and they were showing them recycling batteries and melting down the lead to clean it .They put Caustic Soda in the molten lead and said it removes all the impurities .Any one know any thing about whats this stuff does to lead ?? I wouldnt mess with batteries but maybe it could clean lead better than some of the fluxes we usually use .Arnie

[dsmjon]

I was watching a show called How Its Made on a cable channel and they were showing them recycling batteries and melting down the lead to clean it .They put Caustic Soda in the molten lead and said it removes all the impurities .Any one know any thing about whats this stuff does to lead ?? I wouldnt mess with batteries but maybe it could clean lead better than some of the fluxes we usually use .Arnie

Ever gotten a snoot full of Purple Power after spraying it on a hot manifold? NOT something you want to do, save for maybe in an industrial setting.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[uscra112]

I'm saving out some of the hickory from my winter's firewood. Gonna saw it up to make flux. Ought to smell real good. Now to find some sassafras for dessert. . .

[oneokie]

I was watching a show called How Its Made on a cable channel and they were showing them recycling batteries and melting down the lead to clean it .They put Caustic Soda in the molten lead and said it removes all the impurities .Any one know any thing about whats this stuff does to lead ?? I wouldnt mess with batteries but maybe it could clean lead better than some of the fluxes we usually use .Arnie

Caustic soda is very, very, alkaline. Also very dangerous. Probably as dangerous as the nasties in car batteries.

[LatheRunner]

I started out smelting and casting using old candles. Worked ok. Then I read here to use saw dust. Wow, what a difference. The smelting pot and my Lee bottom pour are cleaner then ever. I get hardwod shavings from a woodworking shop. They look like they came from the planer. I let it smolder for a bit then light it. After I finish fluxing I cover the top of the lead with a little. Works like a charm.

LatheRunner

[Ed in North Texas]

Whats the next best alternative? I plan on ordering some of Pat Marlins CFF but I'd like to give my new smelting pot a test run this weekend if the weather is right.

Besides Charcoal, you could ask at a cabinetmaker/woodworking shop (usually they'd be glad to give you some). Any friends do woodworking? Does your school district still have wood shop? Anyone running a sawmill operation in your neck of the woods?

Ed

[Longwood]

For those of you who are having trouble getting sawdust etc.
I will sell the medium $10.80 USPS boxes full of pellets for $1.
You pay the $10.80 so the total will be $11.80.
A box full will probably fill a large trash can with snall chips after it is wet so the pellets will break apart.
It must be dried before using as a flux and reduxing agent.

[45fan]

Wetting the pellets lets them "fall apart" making it more like sawdust than pellets.
And 5 bux buys you a 40 lb bag of the stuff!


What exactly are these pellets? What are they used for other than the use we are talking about fluxing and where do i get them? sorry if this has already been asnwered before and i just missed it.

[1bluehorse]

What exactly are these pellets? What are they used for other than the use we are talking about fluxing and where do i get them? sorry if this has already been asnwered before and i just missed it.

wood pellets for pellet stoves. Normally sold by the 50lb bag out here.

[Dumasron]

The auto store will sell you a small tin of solder flux for about $2,
if you are not able to get a 'natural' product.

[winchester85]

i have a few dozen yards of sawdust, fine and course. come take all you want.

lol

[Moonman]

Don't use sawdust from plywood. (GLUE fumes are bad for you)

[Ziptar]

Check your local feed store, they should sell bales of pine shavings for bedding.

I use that when smelting, pine has got a bit of resin in it so it works well.

I've never thought to try it but, would work well in a casting pot too. Has a nice smell to it also.

[Jon]

I have sawdust from my chainsaw. Does it need to be more powder than chips?

[plainsman456]

The cuttings from your chainsaw will work well as is.
I have used pine,popular and other wood shavings but oak smells like lunch.
I really get hungry when using oak,it smells like barbeque to me.

[letsmeltlead2693]

How do you properly flux with sawdust anyways?

[JohnFM]

All I ever use is chainsaw chips. I burn different pines and firs and it makes a good flux.
When you go through 8-10 cords a year, there are a lot of chips piling up.

[Elkins45]

Farm stores also sell wood pellets that are used for bedding in horse stalls.

[Longwood]

Wood pellets work extremely well, are cheap, store better than sawdust or pet bedding, and is reported to be a much better cat litter that breaks down rather than turning into concrete like the baked clay does.

[songdog53]

I get my sawdust by the garabage bag from friend that builds cabinets and other wood working things. Course big black bag will last you long time.

[geargnasher]

I get my sawdust by the garabage bag from friend that builds cabinets and other wood working things. Course big black bag will last you long time.

Me too. I prefer chips off the shaper, particularly Alder and Cherry. The sawdust is mostly from the tablesaws and has a lot of plywood stuff in it, and they're still using formaldehyde plywood here.

Gear

[zxcvbob]

I do most of my fluxing with dirty walnut/corncob tumbling media, or sawdust from the floor under the table saw. But I like to end with a little lard or Crisco to gather the ash so I can spoon it out. Fat also does a better job of reducing the last of the oxides floating on top.

When I'm casting with a bottom-pour furnace, I put a big handful of corncob media on top and just let it float there.

[dpaultx]

I prefer chips off the shaper, particularly Alder and Cherry.

I've never actually tried the sawdust fluxing thing but have read a lot about it.

From my understanding of the process, it seems that the larger wood chips, or flakes, that come off of a tool with an actual cutting blade, such as a shaper, or a lathe, or a router should work better than the finer forms of sawdust like what comes from a table saw or band saw with a sawing type blade. There are even finer forms of sawdust, such as what comes off of a belt or disk sander, but I don't think I'd want to use dust from a sanding tool for fear of picking up actual grains of sand, and am not sure that the smaller particles would work as well as the larger chips.

Does the hardness of the wood play much of a role in the fluxing process? What about the oil content of some of the more exotic woods such as rosewood or cocobolo? Would sawdust, wood chips, from those woods help or hinder the process?

Just curious . . . Doug

[mold maker]

Almost any DRY thin shavings or sawdust will work. The toxins in treated lumber and plywood being the exception. The idea is to turn it to carbon, and eliminate the oxygen on the surface of the melt. Sawdust will first scorch and then burn. Both produce carbon and the later uses up all the Oxygen producing a reducing atmosphere. That robs the oxygen from the oxides, returning them to base metal.
Many folks rather enjoy the smells of different wood smoke. (Don't intentionally breathe it) A lit match will light the smoke from most flux, and eliminate it.
Fluxing with sawdust, will clean your pot and tools at the same time, and it leaves no residue.
It's way simpler to do, than to explain. It just works.

[oneokie]

What about the oil content of some of the more exotic woods such as rosewood or cocobolo? Would sawdust, wood chips, from those woods help or hinder the process?
Just curious . . . Doug
Do some internet research on the hazards of the oils and airborne particles of the exotic woods.

[TNFrank]

Dump out your pencil sharpener into a container and use that for flux - works great!Robert

And you have graphite impregnated bullets so you won't have to lube them.











Just kidding about the not having to lube them part.:bigsmyl2:

[leadbutt]

Ive read about the sawdust but havent came across any yet. When i was melting ww's in the late fall i picked up a small handful of leaves and tossed them in the pot. I noticed that the lead was alot cleaner then when i just used wax to flux. Can anyone come up with negatives against using leaves? They are readily available.

L. Bottoms

[SlippShodd]

What about the oil content of some of the more exotic woods such as rosewood or cocobolo? Would sawdust, wood chips, from those woods help or hinder the process? Just curious . . . Doug

As Oneokie indicated, I suspect those would be a bad idea. One of my other hobbies is building and repairing custom pool cues. Two of my favorite exotic woods to use in cues are cocobolo and bloodwood, both members of the rosewood family and the oiliest of the bunch I use; bloodwood will actually weep oil in a puddle under a saw when cut (prompting my wife to nearly call the EMTs). I was warned early on to always wear a cartridge filter mask when working with them and have taken the advice to heart. Occasionally I have neglected the mask when I needed to do a bit of quick sanding on a piece. We all know what happens when you hurry. The results of breathing even a miniscule amount of dust from those woods results in a *massive* 2-day headache and visit from the diarrhea fairy (she's a first-string blood relative to that tinsel-hanging b!+ch). Consequently, I have no desire to find out what would happen if I released the smoke from any rosewood chips in the lead pot.
Since my current trade is that of a handyman, my fluxing stash comes from under my tablesaw after a lengthy session of cutting Doug Fir 2x4s. The pile under the saw right now contains a bunch of acrylic chips... I need to clean that out before I accidentally throw any of that into the pot.


mike

[gwpercle]

I have wood shavings I use to light my pellet stove I think they have wax on them, I wonder how that would work?

I used white pine shavings, from wood plane or done with pocket knife, while stirring with metal spoon I had beeswax on bench so melted a small amount into hot spoon and drizzled over shavings / charcoal and continued stirring. Worked great and smelled good too. The shavings absorbed the beeswax and took it into the melt. the wax didn't float on the surface and smoke or flame up like it sometimes does... I'm going to keep using this method. gary

[JohnFM]

Ive read about the sawdust but havent came across any yet. When i was melting ww's in the late fall i picked up a small handful of leaves and tossed them in the pot. I noticed that the lead was alot cleaner then when i just used wax to flux. Can anyone come up with negatives against using leaves? They are readily available.

L. Bottoms

I bet you could toss in a handful of dry grass and get it fluxed. :)
Lot of dead grass around here yet and I was going to try it out yesterday, but I forgot.

[popper]

Burned wood already has the caustic in it, gramma used it and fat to make lye soap. Another reason to use sawdust. I'm completely swaging it here, but maybe the sawdust and fat will make some soap to remove more impurities.

[Just Duke]

Caustic soda is very, very, alkaline. Also very dangerous. Probably as dangerous as the nasties in car batteries.

Agreed. It's also packaged and called Drano.

[floydboy]

Does the sawdust need to burn up completely or just turn black.....

[geargnasher]

Does the sawdust need to burn up completely or just turn black.....

It doesn't matter. The ash won't corrode your pot or tools, if that's what you're wondering.

Gear