Tube dentation

[DCP]

Does anyone have 1st hand knowledge of tube detonation using round nose boolets in a 38 or 357 Lever action.

[felix]

Not first hand, but from secondary sources, yes. ... felix

[Reload3006]

LMAO not again.

[LUBEDUDE]

It's always I knew a guy who heard from a guy........

[LUBEDUDE]

I even did an experiment one time: did it safely - gloves, eye/ear protection - got a few empty cases with live Federal and Winchester primers in a vise, a round nose bullet in vise grips and hammer in the other hand and gave some good wacks.

Primers had dents and marks, but never went off.

Not zackly scientific, only did 5-6, but close nuff for gubmit work.

[DCP]

Well I did a search and got nothing.

But I did increase my post count.

One[smilie=w: must keep up with the youngsters that have only been here, say 3 months




LMAO not again.

[Reload3006]

actually this is the same kind of post as the one started about SEE not going to believe it until I see it. Ok Russian Roulette will kill you. Do you need to play it to prove that theory? Use your noggin. IT may or IT may not happen but put a sharp point resting on the primer of the round atop of it. shake it hard Probably nothing will happen. But It could so you are cautioned to use FN ammo or Large Radius ammo so that the bullet cant set off the primer its resting on.

[DCP]

Actually

I just asked a simple Question. YOU are assuming the rest.
But if you keep up your drivel you will get your boolit soon.

By the way I have seen someone who played Russian Roulette so that's a bit insulting.




actually this is the same kind of post as the one started about SEE not going to believe it until I see it. Ok Russian Roulette will kill you. Do you need to play it to prove that theory? Use your noggin. IT may or IT may not happen but put a sharp point resting on the primer of the round atop of it. shake it hard Probably nothing will happen. But It could so you are cautioned to use FN ammo or Large Radius ammo so that the bullet cant set off the primer its resting on.

[DCP]

Thanks so much



I even did an experiment one time: did it safely - gloves, eye/ear protection - got a few empty cases with live Federal and Winchester primers in a vise, a round nose bullet in vise grips and hammer in the other hand and gave some good wacks.

Primers had dents and marks, but never went off.

Not zackly scientific, only did 5-6, but close nuff for gubmit work.

[Larry Gibson]

Does anyone have 1st hand knowledge of tube dentation using round nose boolets in a 38 or 357 Lever action.

Personally, I have seen a dented (tube dentation) tube on a 357 lever action. Had nothing to do with the type of bullet used; had to do with dropping the rifle (alcohol was involved)..........

[smilie=l:just trying to add a little humor here.......:bigsmyl2:

Actually while we here of such RN lead alloy bullets are considered entirely safe ub tube magazines. I shot lots of RNFMJ factory loadss in 30-30 M94s. It there ever was a detotnation from using RN bullets in a tube magazine then on careful investigation we would find another cause for the detonation. If you want to use them just make sure the primes are seated correctly....that goes for all ammuntion, not just that used in tube mags BTW.:cbpour:

Larry Gibson

[Reload3006]

supposedly the primer cups are thicker and a lot safer than they used to be as well. but still not a good idea to smack one out of a chamber. I have seen tubular magazine detonations (or better wording the aftermath) in the gun shop I used to work in. I Dont think I have ever heard of one since the early 1900s associated with projectile to primer detonation. all we saw was caused by OOB ignition or at least that was the opinion of of the head gunsmith there.
Still maybe an old wives tale that all the ammo manufacturers are keeping true by not offering spitzer ammo in 30-30 or any other lever action action .. until Hornady offered LeverRevolution ammo and that is a soft plastic tip.

Oh yea and honestly I Could care less about a BOOLIT the mods can delete all my points I DONT CARE.

[Greg B.]

Rifle or Handloader magazine did an article on this several years ago complete with pictures. I always play it safe because I don't want to loose any of my lever guns.

Greg B.

[stubshaft]

Nope. I would think that the recoil level is too small for it to occur. BUT...

[crazy mark]

I don't think Remington would make their RN 30-30 ammo if it was unsafe. I've shot thousands of 311291's with-out any problems in Winchesters and Marlins. Part of it's design was based on 30-30's. Mark

[MT Gianni]

Yes, I saw the rifle in the gunsmiths shop. Rossi 92 with 357 rn & swc mixed. The problem was suspected to be a protruding primer by a very intelligent gunsmith I trusted. Two ignited and the cartridges did not set off the rest of the magazine. The 4 above them were mangled but still held powder and unfired primers.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I have fed 1000 Screaming Eagle Federal LRN ammo through my 92 Rossi and used several thousand 158GnLRN boolits in it as well. I look at the round and also at the primer as it comes off the progressive press before I toss it in the ammo tin.

I would think it mightttttttttttttttttttttttttt be possible with a primer seated so high and possibly crooked that it could be set off by recoil or by pointy hard nosed jacketed spitzer bullets in a 30/30 or similar ,but for cast boolit loads, I'd think not.

[Bambeno]

A reproduction Henry, 45 colt. Fellow shooter dropped the follower too hard on a partial reload. (10 rounds IIRC) had about half a mag full go off. Pieces of brass in his left hand, blew out part of mag tube. Can happen but takes more than normal recoil jaring to make it happen.

[beagle]

I have shot thousands and thousands of rounds through levers and some round nose and have never encountered a problem or seen one.

If you're apprehensive, there are untold numbers of flat nosed designs around for this problem and you can always bump a flat on a roundnose during sizing. The beauty of loading is that you can tailor your load to the gun.

On the other hand, I would not go to the extreme of loading spitzer Ball M2 bullets in a .30/30 lever.

At some point in this game, common sense has to prevail./beagle

[montana_charlie]

Well I did a search and got nothing.

But I did increase my post count.
Did you do your search on 'dentation'?
Do you know what dentation means?

den·ta·tion (dn-tshn) n.
1. The condition of being dentate.
2. A toothlike part or projection.

Does the tube on your rifle have a tooth-like projection on it?

Is it possible that you meant to say 'detonation' ... like having rounds in the magazine tube firing accidently?

CM

[Dirty30]

I've only shot a few RN's through my .357 Winchester so far, but havn't seen any problems. The tension of the mag spring should keep the bullets from slamming together, not to mention that this rifle isn't exactly a recoil monster. If you are concerned I'd suggest casting with soft alloy.

[DCP]

Sorry Charlie

You are absolutely correct

Yes I meant detonation

Sometimes spell check gives the wrong word



Did you do your search on 'dentation'?
Do you know what dentation means?

den·ta·tion (dn-tshn) n.
1. The condition of being dentate.
2. A toothlike part or projection.

Does the tube on your rifle have a tooth-like projection on it?

Is it possible that you meant to say 'detonation' ... like having rounds in the magazine tube firing accidently?

CM

[btroj]

Man, not having spell check really bites..........

This is one of those things that is possible, but not likely. I have never seen it, hope it stays that way.
I hve no problem at all loading RN bullets in my lever guns.

[Ragnarok]

It is a possibility with heavy recoiling lever-guns...and works like this....you have a column of ammo in the tube and fire a shot..the gun recoils..but the ammo is in a spring-loaded column and bounces back and forth with recoil against the spring pressure and the shell-stop/lifter at the receiver.

Enough recoil...pointy enough bullets..and soft primers..can go BOOM!...It's not so much the recoil that sets off an occasional primer..it's the ammo bouncing back and forth in the tube because of the recoil.

There was a topic here not too long back where a fellow was ejecting the ammo from his lever-gun..one of the cartridges detonated on landing..the primer hitting just right. Cut his thumb with shrapnel if I remember right.

Lighter recoiling calibers might be immune from the tube detonation...but a rifle dropped hard could do it too.... that or a hard kicker better stick with flat-points or 'Lever-Lution' ammo.

[muskeg13]

While not with round nose boolets in a 38 or 357 Lever action, I've lost body parts and spent time in surgery after a tube detonation in a Rossi Puma .44 Magnum using flat nosed lead boolits. I can say with all too intimate first hand knowledge, this happens, and it isn't a myth. If anyone is foolish enough to tempt fate, do it someplace where bystanders won't be hurt too. I had all 6 rounds go off at once in the magazine (plus the one that fired correctly in the chamber). By the way, the load was 11.0 gr Unique and a 200 gr plain base boolit in new WW cases with Fed 150 primers. I pulled several boolits afterwards and reweighed the powder to be sure. The six rounds went off after/when I fired the second shot.

[Boerrancher]

There are a good many things that can cause the ammo in the tube to detonate. In many cases it can be attributed to a lack of diligence on the part of the shooter. Primers not seated, deep enough or using rifle primers in pistol rounds is a sure fire way to have it happen, as the rifle primer is longer and when it is seated in the primer pocket of a pistol case it protrudes several thousandths out of the primer pocket. Even a Flat nosed soft boolit will set off a rifle primer loaded into a pistol case. The same thing goes for a primer not seated all the way into the primer pocket. I think one would see tube detonation more when working the lever, than with recoil. Most tube springs are strong enough to keep the ammo from moving around, though it does take a hard jolt every time the lever is closed forcing a fresh round into the chamber and a new round on to the lifter.

Best wishes,

Joe