When Did Winchester Start Doing This

[Saint]

These pics are from a 100 round bulk box of Winchester White Box. This is the same stuff I have bought multiple times before and I had purchased this with the intent of reloading it since I just got my Hi-Point working right but I don't have the means/patience to deal with crimped primers. In all the years I have been buying WWB I have never seen this, both boxes are full of NATO stamped crimped primer 9mm. Is this the norm now or did I get lucky/unlucky?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/39124f338823e61cc.jpg

[stubshaft]

Judging from the date it was in 2011.

[Houndog]

I suspect, but don't know for sure, Winchester White Box and any other "bargan basement" ammo from any of the major players are leftovers from whatever contract run the ammo company happens to be running at the time and out of spec, but not dangerous overload runs. In other words, their junk ammo!

[DocHoliday]

They have been doing it for awhile on their 9mm. I guess its cheaper than making 2 runs of brass with different head stamps. I don't think the primers are actually crimped in the WWB. I have loaded several of these cases with no reaming or swaging needed.

[Reload3006]

I buy a lot of Winchester white box when I am not really caring about the ammo. My son had a Springfield GI 1911 he thought was junk because he kept buying White box and he couldn't hit squat with it. (he by the way is a darned good shot) we loaded up a bunch of 45 acp and he started shooting that and his junk 1911 became a shooter. I found the same thing in my M&P if you want to just hop cans around and dont mind missing more than you hit White box is ok. I am not at all surprised that you would get crimped brass. Its cheap ammo but swage the primer pockets and you have good brass again. PIA but doable.

[tomme boy]

Some of their ammo is loaded in Isreal, an Czech Rep.

[SquirrelHollow]

WWB is simply the lowest grade ammunition they have around, that still meets quality standards. Sometimes that means you get over-run ammo from commercial or military contracts.


Dealing with crimped primers is a non-issue in 9mm.
If you do have problems with crimped primers in 9mm, I'd love to know what the equipment is that's failing you.

[Saint]

Never actually dealt with crimped primer pockets on any ammo but I did break one round down and noticed that it wasn't a very extreme crimp so i suspect i could just pop another primer in without even removing the crimp. Still I want my brass purty so I will just stick with higher quality boxed ammo next time anyway.

[220swiftfn]

Well, I'd be curious if they're loaded to nato spec (+P+ and a forged frame Hi Power don't really get along too well) Thinking about it, wouldn't they HAVE to keep the pressure at SAAMI spec? (Otherwise they open themselves up to litigation....) Might be worth a call to Winchester, it might actually be a mistake, not them just filling WWB with mis-matched over-runs......


Dan

[SquirrelHollow]

Well, I'd be curious if they're loaded to nato spec (+P+ and a forged frame Hi Power don't really get along too well) Thinking about it, wouldn't they HAVE to keep the pressure at SAAMI spec? (Otherwise they open themselves up to litigation....) Might be worth a call to Winchester, it might actually be a mistake, not them just filling WWB with mis-matched over-runs......


Dan

I'd put money on it just being over-run brass, that was loaded to SAAMI spec for WWB packaging.

[jwp475]

Never used any 9mm WWB, but have shot a good bit in 45 ACP and 44 mag without a problem. In fact the 44 ammo is rather accurate in my M-29-2 as this picture illustrates


12 gauge hulls at 50 yards

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d62/jwp475/PipelineandShootingpictures008.jpg

[beagle]

Yep! Military contract over run cases. I had a big batch of Federals like that a while back and once the pockets were swaged, it made good brass. PITA to have to do that though./beagle

[Who's this Guy ?]

Just before X-mas I went target shooting with some friends and they opened up a brand new box of 9mm White box 100rnds they got from Wally World and about 3 or 4 cartridges were crushed like the bullet was slammed into the case and distorted everything. I don't remember the case markings but I think their quality control was asleep that day.

[bcp477]

Given that this sort of thing is now SOP in most industries producing retail-use products......and the fact that "Winchester" ONLY exists as a trade mark (brand) - there hasn't been any such company for a long, long time.....not at all surprising.

My understanding is that ALL of the ammo companies are now doing this sort of "out source to get the cheapest deal/ contract with anybody to get ammo which they then market as their own" activity.

Another good reason for going "hand loads only", which I did many years ago. At least I know what I'm getting, when I open the box.

[casterofboolits]

On another forum it was stated that WWB 9mm was manufactured in Turkey. How true? Who knows.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I use a 82* #0 countersink bit , just touch the brass to it while it is chucked in my cordless drill

works fine on 223 since the head is the same shape and size as 9mm it should work fine on 9mm also.

like this one
http://www.amazon.com/Magafor-Deburring-Countersink-Uncoated-Diameter/dp/B003EIKPSM/ref=sr_1_2?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1329062082&sr=1-2

but i didn't pay that much mine was left from my days of working drill press in a machine shop part time while i went to school.

[sargenv]

I always thought that the + in the circle was non-crimped ammo.. it doesn't look crimped.. have you tried reloading and/or seating a primer in it to see if it crushes primers?

You could always offer it up to those of us here who turn 9's into 40 cal bullets.. in fact I'll take any 9mm berdan brass I can find ;)

[Bullet Caster]

sargenv,
Hi there. I have about 62 pieces of 9mm berdan primed cases. You can have them if you pay the postage. I'll throw in a couple of 9mm boxer primed with a little bur at the case mouth. I don't have any need for this brass and I'd like to see it used for something besides scrap brass. PM me your particulars if you so desire. BC

[SquirrelHollow]

On another forum it was stated that WWB 9mm was manufactured in Turkey. How true? Who knows.

That's almost true... sort of... and only in reference to metric cartridges.
The Winchester "Metrics" line of ammunition is currently being produced by S&B in the former Czech Republic.

In the past, it has been produced by PPU (Serbia) and/or RWS (Germany), as well.

[MtGun44]

Military ammo with NATO cross to show it meets NATO pressure specs. WCC is Western
Cartridge Company and the year headstamp means it was intended as government
contract ammo. This is the standard headstamp seen on military ammo, probably less
being bought now that we are out of Iraq, divirting to civvie market.

Bill