Powders For Garand

[alamogunr]

I just bought a Garand and am checking to see which powders are suitable. I seem to remember reading that either too fast or too slow powders could damage the operating rod. I don't remember which because when I read it I didn't own a Garand.

It seems that 4198 and 4895 are mentioned most often. I don't have either. One powder I do have but have only seen mentioned one time is AA2520. I know it is considered THE .308 powder but I don't know about .30-06 in the Garand. I have almost 16 lbs since I bought it on sale for less than $100/8lbs. It would be nice if it would work but it is somewhat slower in the burn rate charts than the two other mentioned powders.

I plan to use the recent 311299 GB mold for boolets. I haven't slugged the barrel yet but if it takes it, I also have the 314299.

Any and all advice is welcome.

[Larry Gibson]

Only reason AA2520 was "the" powder for any cartridge was because it was cheap. It left a lot of fouling that harmed accuracy, especially after 20 shots. Saw lots of NMC shooters lose a lot of points as their cone of fire got larger than it should have at 300 and particularly the 600 yard line.

Get some 4895, any flavor will do. It is the original '06 powder for which the M1 Garand was devloped for with the '06. Works very well under the 311299 and the 314299 in the '06 in the M1.

Larry Gibson

[zomby woof]

Try Varget too

[alamogunr]

Thanks for the input. Larry, that is the first serious criticism of 2520 that I have seen. Before I bought the 2 jugs, I did some cursory research and found nothing but praise. I'm not a competitive shooter by any means and I had hoped to use it up in my .308 Win and the grandson's .243. I will probably still do that since I clean after each session anyway and wouldn't recognize a fall off in accuracy that would devastate a competitive shooter.

I have some Varget so I'll try that too.

[madsenshooter]

Varget burns about the same Speed as 4064, also known to be Garand safe, so no problem there.

[30CAL-TEXAN]

I use IMR 4064 and 4895 with with mine.

The "safe" powder spectrum is a little bit wider when using boolits vs jacketed but you should read as much as you possibly can from this site and other sources before you form an opinion on just what powders are acceptable. There really are a lot of variables involved.

[Kraschenbirn]

H4895 has long been my 'go-to' for the Garand with both JBs and Boolits but, recently, I came into some (Hodgdon) BLC-2 and, for the loads I've tried so far, it seems to work every bit as well.

Bill

[Crash_Corrigan]

You might also try some AA2700. I bought two 8 lbs jugs of it for my Garand and with PSB filler it really gets the job done under a Lyman 311284 boolit without the GC.

As the filler acts well to prevent gas cutting of the lead boolit and increases the velocity. My best results occur when I am getting about 1850 FPS velocity. The function is good and the empties pile up in front of me an slightly off to the right. No hunting around for the used cases and by using neck sizing dies 4 out of 5 firings the brass life is pretty good to excellent.

[405]

I just bought a Garand and am checking to see which powders are suitable. I seem to remember reading that either too fast or too slow powders could damage the operating rod. I don't remember which because when I read it I didn't own a Garand.



OK, as to this part of your question. Very generally most advice says that powders that are too slow are the ones that can cause trouble in the Garand because the pressure curve for these powders is relatively long and flat. That means the pressure (and gas volume) behind the bullet is still too high as the bullet passes the gas port. Too high pressure thru the port can damage the op rod. Example- I would not shoot a case full of 4831 under a heavy bullet in the Garand. The strength of the action/bolt/receiver would handle it no problem but the high port pressure and high gas volume might damage the op rod or other associated part.

But, powders that are too fast can also cause problems. One is that even within safe pressure levels the pressure curve gets steep or "spiky" in other words tricky. Also, reduced loads of fast powder carry a relatively short and sharp pressure curve and they can be loaded safely enough but the pressure (and gas volume) may be too low as the bullet passes the port to cycle the action reliably.

That is WHY the recommendation is for medium burn powders within a normal load range. 4895 is the powder. Others in that type and burn rate range will also work. Powders like AA2520 are in the same burn rate range as 4895. Since I don't use ball powders and don't use AA2520 I have no experience about its possible faults for Garand use.

[higgins]

I have used moderate to near-max loads of AA2520 in the Garand with a 150 gr. bullet with good results, every bit as accurate as 4895 in my rifle.

[mroliver77]

I use AA2520 in gas guns with no apparent loss of accuracy or dirty burn. I also am by no means a competitive class shooter. I have found the 2520 to perform well with the reduced cast loads if filler and heavy boolits are used. It burns easier and cleaner than most other ball powders I have used. Being cheap(mine was $50. per 8 shipped), I am a bit prejudiced in favor of the 2520.

If I had a good supply of 4895 it would be my first choice.

Follow Larry Gibsons loading procedure and all will be well.
Jay

[giz189]

Look up BruceB's tests using M-1's and M1A's I think. Just full of good info.

[DukeInFlorida]

My vote is also with IMR 4064 and IMR 4895.

If you use anything faster, it will push on the OP Rod too hard when reloading, and bend the OP rod. It can be a gradual thing, over time. Be kinder on your gun. Don't beat up on the parts (Op Rod, bolt, lugs, etc) by being careless with what power you use.

Especially true with factory ammo. Will your gun cycle with factory ammo? Sure, Will factory ammo beat up on your gun? You betcha!

There are a couple of factory rounds that are certified safe for M1, M1a, M14. All of the rest are dangerous to your gun.


I use IMR 4064 and 4895 with with mine.

The "safe" powder spectrum is a little bit wider when using boolits vs jacketed but you should read as much as you possibly can from this site and other sources before you form an opinion on just what powders are acceptable. There really are a lot of variables involved.

[alamogunr]

Thanks for all the input. I'm going to order some 4895 to get started. I ordered some clips that should be here in a few days. The 4895 should give me plenty to do while learning the in's and out's of Garands.

Until everything arrives, the suggestions on threads to read here will keep me busy for quite awhile.

[DukeInFlorida]

btw, the same is true for the M1A's also. The Garands have thinner OP rods, so it's even more critical not to punish the gun with too fast a powder.

[alamogunr]

There are a couple of factory rounds that are certified safe for M1, M1a, M14. All of the rest are dangerous to your gun.

Which factory ammo is M1 safe?

[madsenshooter]

Hornady makes a load for the Garand, Federal American Eagle, Federal Gold Match, probably some others. But truthfully, any factory load with 50gr or less of powder would be. 50gr of any powder can only produce a certain volume of gas, the amount the Garand was designed to handle. If I had some factory loads and wanted to know if they would be safe in my Garand, I'd pull one down and weigh the charge. If was 50gr or less, they'd be ok to use. Some loads, despite having more than the 50gr could also be safe because they produce less peak pressure AND less port pressure.

[ELFEGO BACA]

2520 burns well in my 6.5 Grendel.

[alamogunr]

Hornady makes a load for the Garand, Federal American Eagle, Federal Gold Match, probably some others. But truthfully, any factory load with 50gr or less of powder would be. 50gr of any powder can only produce a certain volume of gas, the amount the Garand was designed to handle. If I had some factory loads and wanted to know if they would be safe in my Garand, I'd pull one down and weigh the charge. If was 50gr or less, they'd be ok to use. Some loads, despite having more than the 50gr could also be safe because they produce less peak pressure AND less port pressure.

I wonder if the manufacturers would supply this information. Ammunition has gotten too expensive to buy just to pull a bullet to weigh the powder. I don't own another .30-06 to use it up.

[Larry Gibson]

Alamogunr

The powder and bullet go right back in after weighing the powder. I've done lots of factory ammo of all sorts of cartridges that way. Not really a problem and yes, factory ammo is very expensive these days and going to get a lot more expensive when the price of oil goes up.

Larry Gibson

[midnight]

Enough 4895 to push 150/155gr bullets 2600/2700fps is the only load I use in the Garand. I only use it for fun and not competition.

Bob

[Char-Gar]

I "assume" the OP was asking about powders for cast bullets in the Garand! If that is NOT TRUE than 4895 is the right counsel. If that IS TRUE then we are into a different ball game.

All that matters is the port pressure. When we shoot cast bullets at the normal 1.6-2.0 K fps, many powders including some quite fast pistol powders will produce a good safe port pressure in the Garand that will not damage the operating rod.

I would refer the OP to BruceB's stick on cast bullets in the MIA for some good information.

[alamogunr]

I "assume" the OP was asking about powders for cast bullets in the Garand! If that is NOT TRUE than 4895 is the right counsel. If that IS TRUE then we are into a different ball game.

All that matters is the port pressure. When we shoot cast bullets at the normal 1.6-2.0 K fps, many powders including some quite fast pistol powders will produce a good safe port pressure in the Garand that will not damage the operating rod.

I would refer the OP to BruceB's stick on cast bullets in the MIA for some good information.

My question was about powders for cast in the Garand. I assumed that resulting posts addressed that.

Is this the thread(Sticky) that you referred to? (http://tinyurl.com/7eoyj6l) If so, does the information (NOT loads) apply to the Garand as well as the M1A?

When I expanded my search, I found several threads that addressed loads for the Garand and cast.

Thanks

[Char-Gar]

Yes, that is indeed the thread. The loads are for the 308 round, but the principals involved are the same. It will give you some insight on how cast bullets in these gas operating rifles work.

When dealing with cast bullets in general, the "cookbook" loads are few and far between. We meed to understand the principals and go from there.

[curator]

You mean there is a better powder for the Garand with cast boolits than IMR 4895? I have used IMR 4350, Reloder 15, IMR 4064, and even Varget. Nothing works better in my experience for cast boolits (180 to 210 grains) in the M1 Garand than real IMR (well maybe H4895 too) 4895. 35 to 37 grains will work the action and still give good accuracy assuming boolits are at least BHN18 and seated correctly. A good lube helps too. Now it you can get one of those adjustable gas plugs, who knows? Actually, my best accuracy is 19 grains of Alliant 2400 and Lyman # 314299. Don't expect this to auto-load however.

[madsenshooter]

Oh, drat, I have to look that up again. Look up what? Here's a link to a a quickload spreadsheet done by parashooter which will show you what powders will safely produce a 2000fps load with 311284 and NOT produce enough pressure to harm the op rod. He has taken the pressure produced by a standard load of 4895, 10,587PSI as the "Never exceed" op rod pressure, and has thus discovered that quite a few powders someone will surely tell you "ISN'T SAFE IN THE GARAND", and come up with some interesting possibilities for cast bullets in the Garand: http://www.jouster.com/forums/showthread.php?12608-cast-bullets-in-a-M1-Garand&highlight=garand It opens up a great variety of powders for cast in the Garand. By the way, you'll never need one of those adjustable plugs unless you're planning on shooting jacketed with something slower than the recommended powders for the Garand. An example would be a caseful of RL19 with 150gr bullets.

[Hamish]

Good info and all madsen, but do you still have that hat?

[avogunner]

Like the others have said on this thread...4895 is the standard. I use that primarily but on occasion use others in the same burning range including IMR-4064 and WIN 748.
Semper Fi