38-70 wcf

[All Calibers]

Anybody have insights on how rare the .38-70 WCF chambering is for a Winchester Model 1886?

[ajjohns]

I thought in Mike Venturino's lever gun book he said they were very rare.

[All Calibers]

Several years ago I picked up a Model 1886 that had been non-Winchester rebarreled to .33 WCF. Was thinking about selling it or rebarreling it to .40-65 WCF. Sent a request to Cody and was amazed when the answer came back that it was originally a .38-70 WCF, 3/4 magazine, rapid taper barrel, special Lyman sight. I've looked around on the Internet and could find very few '86s in that caliber; all were sold months to years ago and none for sale among the more than 375 Winchester Model 1886s for sale now. Finally figured out Winchester only chambered that cartridge from 1894-1910. I'm going to get it returned to its original configuration. Would like to hear from anyone who has reloaded .38-70 WCF.

[KirkD]

John Madl is an expert in the Model 1886 and has a book on the subject. In that book, Table 7, there is a list of all the different cartridges chambered in the 1886 and their numbers. For the 38-70 there was a total of 1,167 rifles/carbines produced. For comparison, there were 36,107 chambered in 45-70. There were quite a few one-off calibers chambered, but of the chamberings that actually went into production, the rarest is the 40-70 with a total of 862 produced. The 30-70 is the second rarest chambering.

[bob208]

where does the .40-82 come in for production?

[All Calibers]

KirkD: Thanks for the production info. Do you have the title of that book? I would try to track down a copy of it. Of rifles in this caliber that I've been able to locate via past sales/auctions they show up as DOM being:
1894: 2
1895: 2
1903: 1
1905: 1
1906: 1
I got my .38-70 WCF reloading dies today from RCBS. They're still making the case form/trim set for me. I appreciate having heard from you folks.

[KirkD]

All Calibers: PM sent

The 40-82 total is: 30,973

Number three was the 45-90 at 23,197

According to Madl's research, the 1st 38-70 was produced around s/n 18,000 and the 2nd one around s/n 85,000.

[hydraulic]

Saw one at the Yankton, SD show last weekend.

[TXGunNut]

Who'd you find to do the barrel for you? Getting the dimensions right could be a project in itself. Sounds like a special order rifle. Don't you wish it could talk?

[All Calibers]

Turnbull has my rifle. I calculated the barrel profile starting with the known diameter at the breech which was a 100% fit of the .33 WCF barrel to the original forend inlet (no further inletting done on the wood) and then measuring the I.D. of the forend cap 11.0" from the breech. That identified a barrel radius change of .05" over the 11.0" and when that is projected to an exposed barrel length of 25.125" (...remember, .75" of the barrel is in the receiver) you come out with a muzzle diameter of .709". That fits the description of a rapid taper barrel. I contacted a friend who has a Model 1886 with a rapid taper barrel that is only 353 serial numbers from mine and his has a rapid taper barrel. His breech, nose cap and muzzle dimensions fit my calculations exactly. Total barrel length is, of course, 25.875" on a 26" barrel.

[All Calibers]

hydraulic: What condition was that one in that you saw at Yankton, SD? That one and one more I've located brings the total I know about to 9. What was its profile, e.g., full magazine, crescent buttplate, etc.?

[jlchucker]

Around 1960, when I was a kid halfway through high school, there was an estate auction in my home town. The dwelling had been closed up since the 1920's, and the late owner had lived above her office, right next door. As everyone was wandering through that building looking for bargains, I saw a old levergun, in good shape, in an upstairs closet. It was an 1886 Winchester in 38-70. Full length, 24 inch rifle. At first I thought it was a 94, and I wanted to bid on it for a deer rifle. I had all of $20 on me at the time, but didn't bid because I didn't recognise the caliber, and knew that the old general store down the street didn't carry ammo for this rifle. I think the winning bid ended up being $20. This was in Cavendish, Vermont. I remember that rifle, but never really thought much more about that caliber until many, many years later, when I became a lot more gun savvy than I was at the time.

[square butte]

Just up the road a piece from me. Wouldn't surprise me if that gun was haging on the wall in Singleton's collection. A lot to look at there but the good stuff is NFS.

[jlchucker]

Just up the road a piece from me. Wouldn't surprise me if that gun was haging on the wall in Singleton's collection. A lot to look at there but the good stuff is NFS.

I don't think the rifle I saw is in Singleton's. This was way before his time in Proctorsville. His family grocery business was out in Felchville at the time. the rifle I saw must have made it into someone's collection, though. Practically nobody around those parts handloaded at that time, at least not that I was aware of. The house in which it was stored had been closed since the 1920's, and nobody ever went in there. That weekend was of great interest to curiosity seekers and antique hunters from near and far. That was the only firearm in the auction.

Singleton does have quite a collection though. He says that most of it was acquired locally, too.

[square butte]

Didn't think you saw it in Singletons. Just saying that alot of nice old winchesters from this area have found their way on to his walls. Appologies for my inarticulate communication above.

[All Calibers]

Some interesting ol' iron still exists out there, but more often than not it either comes with warts on it or it shows up in a chauffer driven limo. Relative poverty keeps me fondling those with warts.

[SSShooter]

All Calibers - how is Turnbull doing on your 1886 in 38/70? Am thinking of having a Hepburn rebarreled in 38/70, but can't seem to find a source for the case dimensions. Any suggestions on where to look? Thanks.

[John Taylor]

Just had a 40-70 1886 in for repair. Box of ammo came from Buffalo Arms.
I have the pattern for the rapid taper round barrel and the 38-70 Winchester reamer.