Lee Liquid Alox and Penetrol

[Southern Shooter]

Has anybody combined these two products to make a lube? Say 50/50?? Would it work?

http://www.flood.com/paint-additive-solutions/products/view-product.jsp?productId=11

I have coated some boolits. But, I have not shot them, yet. The boolits are not sticky after they dry.

Thanks

[wrinkles]

Tagging for results.

[Southern Shooter]

My first test batch of boolits with the LLA/Penetrol mix lube will be some slow moving .454 Casull. The Lee 452-255-RF, which drops from the mold at 262 grains, and my Accurate Mold 45-360C weighing out at 362 grains. The velocities for both of these bullets should be around 950 FPS. They will be fired from my Ruger SRH Alaskan with the 2.58" barrel.

40574

40575

Now, I just need some clear skies so my chrono will read. :mad:

[wrinkles]

Is that what they look like after applying the mixture?

[Southern Shooter]

No. I will snap some pics of them lubed, though. And, post them on here.

[madsenshooter]

I've used mineral spirits and a bit of Marvel Mystery Oil to thin the LLA and provide a bit more lubricity. I think the trick is to not thin it so much that it doesn't dry, so a carrier that evaporates like the mineral spirits is a good idea. What I mixed up worked very good in my 6x45, so good I applied the lube to the bands with a q-tip and got no leading at 2350fps. That's with a hard alloy in a 5R rifled 1/8 twist barrel, standard lubing practices was too much goo. Can't have the boolit floating on a layer of molten wax when your trying to grip rounded rifling that's only .002" tall. I realize you're talking pistols. LLAMMO works good though.

[35remington]

Since Marvel Mystery Oil does not dry, I don't think it's a good idea to be adding that to a lube mixture that you do expect to dry to a non powder contaminating state eventually. Oil will stay.....oil.

While you might hope that the mineral spirits will neutralize it, why add it in the first place? If something needs to be changed to another form to prevent undesirable results, don't include it.

[cajun shooter]

Penetrol is a old product that has been made by Flood for over 50 years. It is intended to be used in a oil based paint product to increase it's flow characteristics and ease of application.
When I returned home from the ARMY I had a friend who was in the painters Union. He got me on with his shop and I worked for about 6 or so years. During that time I used many a gallon of Penetrol mixed with the oil paint for home and commercial buildings as it was the product of choice.

[Southern Shooter]

Cajun Shooter...do you think such a mixture would be a successful cast bullet lube? I tried to take some pictures of the lubed bullets, last night. But, I could not get any in good focus. Anyway, they took on a translucent amber color like what you would see in other LLA tumble lubed bullets. However, the finish was smooth and not sticky after drying.

[cajun shooter]

I myself don't care for the tumble lube method as I'm old school with sizing and bullet lube. You may do a great job by pan lubing and then using a sizing with bullets having the standard lube grooves.
The Penetrol is doing to the lube the exact thing that it does to oil based paints and that is giving it a sprayed on look with a even smooth coat.
You may brush a door casing with oil paint that has the Penetrol and after setting it appears very smooth and even and makes a wonderful job.
As far as it's ability to withstand the pressure and heat produced by the firing of a round I have no idea how it will perform.
This is putting a product intended for painting into a whole new setting and would take some one with a different Major than I had.

[Southern Shooter]

Providing the weather holds out and I am not working over-time, we shall see how this mixture performs.

Fingers crossed............

Thanks

[Southern Shooter]

Folks, the mix worked for me. The two boolits listed earlier in this thread left no lead. The 360 grain bullet averaged 947 FPS and the Lee 255 averaged 1020 FPS. No leading and nice groups.

Thought ya'll might want to know.

[Max Brand]

Interesting, how does the price of Penetrol compare to plain old mineral spirits? How about the drying time? Thanks for posting your findings.

[Southern Shooter]

You know, I really do not know the current price of Penetrol. I had a can sitting around the shed and just thought I would try it out. It has been in the for several years.

Drying time? In my opinion, rather quickly. On several batches, I could lube them about 6ish in the evening and handle them long before I went to bed...maybe, several hours? And, that was with very, very little to NO tackiness.

Thanks

[wrinkles]

I had some flowatrol laying around the house so I mixed up small batch this weekend. I'll be casting some 9mm this afternoon so we can go shoot steel this Sat. we'll see how that mess works.

[Southern Shooter]

I should state this, that I put more than one coating of the mix on before shooting the boolits. I was just making sure that the lube was filling in the lube grooves at least 1/2-3/4 of the way.

[wrinkles]

How many coats?

[Southern Shooter]

I did 2 coats. It seemed still thick enough to cling in the lube grooves. And, it had a dark amber color to it.

[Southern Shooter]

Ya'll please keep in mind that this lube mix has only been tested in a snub-nose revolver. I have no clue what it will do in longer barreled guns.

[wrinkles]

Well I cast 400 9mm yesterday evening and used the flowatrol mixture last night. Haven't checked on them today but I'll be sizing them this afternoon.

[Southern Shooter]

I am looking forward to hearing about your results.

[williamwaco]

It is mostly naptha, mineral spirits, and a little linseed oil.
( If you want to have some fun, see if you can find the composition of linseed oil.)

It does have one ingredient that would scare me off.
soya long oil alkyd resin soya long oil alkyd resin Sup.

I have no idea what that is but in my experience resin is used to make things sticky and increase friction.

I will wait and let some one else try it.

In the mean time, I will stick with pure mineral spirits.

.

[noylj]

Dear Cajun Shooter:
You should really try NOT sizing and then tumble or pan lubing. It's been working for me since the late '80s.
I tried a bunch of runs with sized and unsized bullets in .45ACP, .44Mag, 9x19, and 7mm TCU. In all cases, the unsized bullets were as accurate or more accurate than the sized bullets. I got a slightly over-sized sizing die for the 7mm so I could seat gas-checks for a couple of my molds.
Haven't shot the 7mm since the early '90s, so all my cast bullets have been for pistols since then. When LLA came out, I tried it and stopped pan lubing.
I love being able to lube about 500 bullets in one minute with LLA.
Never discourage safe experimenting and never close your mind to alternatives.
If I could apply a moly-kote or poly-kote to 500 or more bullets in a cement mixer without the "stirring panels," I would be all over it in a minute (see comments about coating jelly beans and similar candies on the net).

[noylj]

Just out of curiostity--
From Penetrol MSDS:
Chemical Name
Common Name
CAS. No. FLD4
solvent naphtha (petroleum), medium aliphatic linseed oil, polymerized
stoddard solvent
soya long oil alkyd resin
medium aliphatic solvent naphtha linseed oil
mineral spirits
soya long oil alkyd resin
64742-88-7 50-60 67746-08-1 1-5 8052-41-3 10-20
proprietary blend of heat polymerized linseed oil
linseed oil blend
Sup. Conf. Sup. Conf.
20-30 1-5

So, it is mostly alkyd resin derived from soya with some linseed oil and derivatives for smoothing, with naphtha and mineral spirits for solvents.
Since the paint has to dry, the alkyd resin and polymerized linseed oil could even speed the process up.
With the amount of naphtha and MS, how is drying time?
With 45/45/10 and other blends, has anyone tried cutting with MEK or hexane (instead of adding more MS or naphtha) to speed up drying time? (I have never worried about drying time or tackiness, but I know most do).

[Jkallen83]

i did professional custom painting for years...im not talking normal nice painting like most painters, i mean i did what most painters cant do..we did specialty high quality painting....so there are different techniques to make it look RIGHT... but there are alot of good painters tho..

penetrol i HATED for painting, has a yellowish color, i refused to use it, didnt work right for oil paints. i used mineral spirits as it was clear and thinned great, increased the gloss...

penetrol as a bullet lube mixture could work...it works similar to mineral spirits but penetrol is not a watery liquid like mineral spirits. so u would be able to use it and have some "substance" to lube rather than just a "thinner"....

i have not used it for lube, but i would say just from being familiar with it that it would probably make a decent blend and be better than mineral spirits since its not so thin...

[Southern Shooter]

Hello Folks. I was wondering if anybody has also tried the mix of LLA and Penetrol. I have had no problems with it. No leading. And, it dries rather quickly with very little to no stickiness.

Thanks