500 s&w x frame

[Crawdaddy]

I am looking at two Smiths in 500 S&W magnum. One is the 4 inch barrel, the other is 8 3/8. The gun will be used primarily for hog hunting. Either would be mounted with a red dot or 2 power scope.

I like the idea of the shorter barrel but am concerned about accuracy.

Do you think the 4 inch barrel could hit a pie plate every time at 100 yards? Ican do it all day long with my super Blackhawk but it is 7 inches.

What type of red dot and scope can handle the recoil?

Reccomended mold and bullet weight?

[subsonic]

A bunch of folks, including me, will tell you that the Ultra-Dot 30 from ultradot west is a great red dot that will take a beating.

4" or 8 3/8" is up to you. The gun is capable of that accuracy with either barrel length. You might not be however. If you have not fired a .500 S&W, you should before you buy one. They are enormous and the recoil is pretty serious. That 4" looks sexy as heck, but the 8 3/8" should be easier to shoot. Freedom475 is selling a non-ported insert for the brake on these guns.

Not to be a pessimist, but a 4"-6" .44 mag would probably do what you want better than either of those.

And that makes me a hipocrite because I'm a big bore handgun addict....:-)

No recommendations on loads, except that you don't need a 700gr boolit to kill pigs, be sensible about you boolit choice and load.

[Alan]

I would also add that if I was about to buy a stock .500 Smith, I would make sure it had the removable muzzle brake. You can replace that with a solid unit. I have one of the John Ross S&W's from the group buy here, and absolutely love it. It has no muzzle break at all. Of course, I don't run it wide open, either.

[smoked turkey]

I have the 4" and wish I'd gotten the 8 3/8". As stated above it really is a hand full. I enjoy it more loaded down. Consider this when it is loaded down, even with no expansion, a one-half inch hole is pretty big. In other words it don't need to break your hand in order to do some serious work. It is a tremendous handgun. I see from the post above that a non-ported insert is offered. I like that idea and would like to find more info on it. That is one thing I don't like about the Smith is the ported barrel. Makes cleaning more of a pain to me.

[Crawdaddy]

Is there any benefit to the sold unit other than cleaning?

[smoked turkey]

IMO not really. I say that but it probably does reduce the felt recoil by quite a bit. I'd hate to feel the recoil without it if that is the case!. A case in point is that Smith supplies two different muzzle brakes. One for cast and one for J-words. I wanted a friend to "experience" the big 500 with both cast and J-bullets. I tried to switch brakes during the session and the powdered up barrel/threads made it pretty difficult to go by the book during a shooting session. Another situation that came up here (search the arcives for spitting lead) involved feeling lead coming back on the shooter. It seems to me the problem was traced back to the brake. I can't remember for certain. If it were me, I would go for something like the Ruger Alaskan in .454. It will do whatever you need to do to those pigs. In that way you don't have to contend with the muzzle brake situation. Just my opinion.

[subsonic]

With the brake, some people have reported pieces of lead or jacket material hitting them while shooting. The muzzle blast is pretty bad.

This is what John Ross has to say about it:
http://john-ross.net/pdfs/maghist.pdf
It's in page 11, further experiments.

Having shot one of his revolvers, I tend to agree.

[Whitworth]

Another vote for Ultradot. They will stand up to the recoil of the .500.

Either barrel length will work, but why not split the difference with a 6.5-inch barreled model? The 8 3/8-inch barreled X-frame is a crew served weapon, and a pain to carry in the field IMO. I've done it but would much rather carry something less cumbersome.

[freedom475]

The 4" is going to be as accurate as the 8 3/8"....but the 8 3/8 is going to give you a longer sight radius so it will be easier to shoot well. That becomes a mute point if you add the scope to either revolver as the sight radius will not exist so now the only thing you will change is balance and a slight increase in velocity with the longer barrel.

It is going to take some discipline to be able to keep every shot on a paper plate at 100yards with either length..especially if you hope to do it with full house loads.

Also the shorter barrel will limit the kind/length of scope that you can comfortably and aesthetically mount on the revolver. The Utra Dot will fit fine on the 4" and look great doing it.

Recoil is big with full house loads...but you sure don't have to run them that hot. I am sure that the 450gr Kieth with shoot right through any hog at 1050fps....this is easily done with the 4". And if you really like punishment, then you can run them to 1500fps with the 4"

I think my 8 3/8 recoiled as bad as my 4"...maybe more since the long barrel seemed to direct the forces "straighter" back into my web.

The muzzlebreak is a Total Joke!! All it does is make the revolver blast you like a stick of dynamite held at arms length. The cuncusion is so great it will leave you physically ill and emotionally shaken after a box of high power rounds.( I am not joking or kidding). The thing dose nothing to reduce recoil in the 4" (I've not had a chance to test the 8 3/8)

As far as my testing I can see no gain from having it. I even believe that it is a danger to have it on...so which ever one you choose, make sure it has the removable break so that you can remove it and replace it with one with no holes (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=141723).



Some will ask..."Why buy a 500 and download it"??

1) I want to be able to comfortably drive a 300-500gr boolit at 1000-1500fps
2) I want it to have a perfect, butter smooth action job right out of the box.
3) I want it to look great and be easily mounted with a scope.
4) I want to be able to easily pack it, so I will have it when I need it.
5) And I want to be able to have all of this for $1000+/- New.

The 500 S&W 4" X-frame is the "only" factory revolver that will do all if this and look great doing it:mrgreen::Fire:

[Whitworth]

2) I want it to have a perfect, butter smooth action job right out of the box.


Really? Mine's kinda heavy and not so smooth. Plus, it weighs a ton. I much prefer my .500 Linebaugh SRH, especially cause it weighs less than 3-lbs.

[freedom475]

Really? Mine's kinda heavy and not so smooth. Plus, it weighs a ton. I much prefer my .500 Linebaugh SRH, especially cause it weighs less than 3-lbs.


Well mine might not be "perfect" (it has a little creep) but it has been my experience that Smith&Wesson has the best "factory", out of the box action of any production revolver you can buy. Freedom Arms is pretty crisp, but it gets NO WHERE near the $1000 price tag either. And I would wager that you have more than a $1000 in your SRH conversion.[smilie=s:

[Whitworth]

Actually, not much more really. It'll shoot circles around my X-frame, and the trigger is heaven (2-lbs 6-oz).....:bigsmyl2: -- ask 44man about that trigger. The X-frame is just so bulky. Had Smith & Wesson not wanted to recapture the "most powerful" crown as convincingly as they did, they could have loaded it down to .500 Maximum levels and created a smaller, friendlier, and more packable revolver. But when you are pushing 62,000 psi.....well, you need a big gun. JMHO.

[Crawdaddy]

Lots of great information. I wish the 6 inch were an option but my local Sportsmans warehouse doesnt have it. I will probably grab one friday night after work. Still up in the air as to which one.

I was checking out UltraDot. I really like the one for the AR platform and the Match Dot II because they have BDC and variable dot sizes down to 2 MOA.

Will they also hold up to the recoil?

For those that reccomended the 454 or said my 44 is enough, it is more a matter of wanting a new toy and having the Tim the Toolman mentality for "more power". I shoot 458 WM, 450 Marlins, 300 WM etc. I just like the challenge of becoming good with it and having a new toy.

Freedom475, assuming I get it, I will probably be in touch for the solid version.
Subsonic, thanks for the link to the John Ross article.

[44man]

Short barrels remove every single advantage of large cases. Some revolver cases need rifle length barrels.
A .500 S&W in a 4" barrel is nothing but a joke. A .500 case 1" long will do the same. I would not put a JRH in a 4" barrel, doesn't need it.
Consider a BFR in .500 JRH with a 6" barrel is more packable then a 4" S&W X frame, why bother?
It is like buying a .460 Weatherby and wanting light 45-70 loads because it scrambles your brain with each shot.
Completely and totally out of mechanical usage I have to relegate it to a MACHO thing.
The day I buy a 4" X frame to shoot a pinch of Unique will be the day the white coats come for me.
Why would you buy a gun that needs downloaded? :holysheep

[Gunslinger1911]

"Why would you buy a gun that needs downloaded?"

Um, ....... 'cause I can? LOL

[Whitworth]

I was checking out UltraDot. I really like the one for the AR platform and the Match Dot II because they have BDC and variable dot sizes down to 2 MOA.

Will they also hold up to the recoil?



The Ultradots will take a beating and come back for more. We have been very unkind to ours and they just don't give up the ghost. I have one that absorbed thousands of full-tilt .475 Linebaugh loads, then went on my .500 JRH for load development, on to my .416 Remmie rifle (yes, I have one rifle), then on to my .500 Linebaugh where it now lives. They are the energizer bunny of the red dot world.

If you want a .500 Smith, don't let anyone talk you out of one.

[44man]

If you want a .500 Smith, don't let anyone talk you out of one.
Buy one with a barrel on it. :coffee:

[freedom475]

I know this may start a drift from the original question... so I'll just say buy the 500..If you positively want to put a scope on it and carry it around in your hand, buy the 8" if you think you may ever want to put it in a holster and use it a a woodswalking or backup gun, buy the 4"...probly be safest to buy both...lol

The 4" (actually 3" rifled) only looses 300fps..So does the extra 5 3/8" of barrel weight really gain enough to justify?

Barrel length is a funny subject with pistols. Seems everyone thinks you need the barrel to utilize powder. The barrel length will give you more power (speed), but will Not burn more pistol powder.


I learned something at the Linebaugh seminar from the ballistic tech that came to the seminar with all of his computer charts. Much to the disbelief of lots of guys that had theories figured out (John himself said "What??") The charts showed us right there in black-and-white that everything that is going to happen to build pressure happens BEFORE the boolit breaks the crimp. The instant the boolit breaks the crimp the dynamics of case capacity change and the pressure build stops ...thus ending the burn spike...any powder that burns after that takes place is just on fire and really does no more to assist the boolit on it's way.

If that intial pressure and gas stays behind the boolit longer (longer barrel=more time) you can get more room/time to get the boolit moving faster but you Do Not get a better/longer/more etc. powder burn.


This is the first time I have ever mentioned this because, well there are a lot of theories out there...but I want it to be said....This is Not my opinion, argument, or theory.....it is just the results of testing that was shared with me from a man that has all the nessasary equipment to measure the info and form data from it.

The only rifle comparison I saw was one on the 270win campared to the 454 Cassull.. The tech said this scared the hell out of him..lol The 454 generates the same pressure as the 270 in 1/2 the time

John Ross may have something different going by packing the 500's case with rifle powder,..but his personal fabrications still only tote a 5" barrel..

[subsonic]

I know this may start a drift from the original question... so I'll just say buy the 500..If you positively want to put a scope on it and carry it around in your hand, buy the 8" if you think you may ever want to put it in a holster and use it a a woodswalking or backup gun, buy the 4"...probly be safest to buy both...lol

The 4" (actually 3" rifled) only looses 300fps..So does the extra 5 3/8" of barrel weight really gain enough to justify?

Barrel length is a funny subject with pistols. Seems everyone thinks you need the barrel to utilize powder. The barrel length will give you more power (speed), but will Not burn more pistol powder.


I learned something at the Linebaugh seminar from the ballistic tech that came to the seminar with all of his computer charts. Much to the disbelief of lots of guys that had theories figured out (John himself said "What??") The charts showed us right there in black-and-white that everything that is going to happen to build pressure happens BEFORE the boolit breaks the crimp. The instant the boolit breaks the crimp the dynamics of case capacity change and the pressure build stops ...thus ending the burn spike...any powder that burns after that takes place is just on fire and really does no more to assist the boolit on it's way.

If that intial pressure and gas stays behind the boolit longer (longer barrel=more time) you can get more room/time to get the boolit moving faster but you Do Not get a better/longer/more etc. powder burn.


This is the first time I have ever mentioned this because, well there are a lot of theories out there...but I want it to be said....This is Not my opinion, argument, or theory.....it is just the results of testing that was shared with me from a man that has all the nessasary equipment to measure the info and form data from it.

The only rifle comparison I saw was one on the 270win campared to the 454 Cassull.. The tech said this scared the hell out of him..lol The 454 generates the same pressure as the 270 in 1/2 the time

John Ross may have something different going by packing the 500's case with rifle powder,..but his personal fabrications still only tote a 5" barrel..

+1 on this.

Now, you will loose velocity over a longer barrel, but more case capacity and more powder always increase velocity with everything else equal in production guns in production calibers. I'm sure someone could create something that doesn't work, like the .22-50BMG that I once saw, but that's pretty far from where reality stops.

I've had this argument before many times regarding snubby .357s. People will argue that a .38 will go just as fast. I say "prove it". Nobody can.

[Whitworth]

The logical barrel length compromise is the 6.5-inch model. Here is mine with my .454 Rehawk (4-inch barrel):

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f196/MarkoR/IMAG0277.jpg

[Markbo]

First off I am a big bore fan too. I LOVE big booms and big recoil. I have the .460 and had - past tense - the .500 X frame. It remains THE only handgun that I have ever fired that bruised the palm of my hand. The classic S&W grip frame is not ideal for massive handgun recoil. I'd much rather shoot full house loads in a BFR or SRH or FA 83 - I'm actually most partial to the Ruger Bisley grip than any other - over the S&W.

If you want one, get one! It is the biggest revolver any of us are likely to ever own. Just don't forget that you can download it so that you can actually shoot it and there is absolutely nothing wrong with wearing a shooting glove when you do!

FWIW the .460 recoil is entirely different. Even shooting heavier bullets than the hotrod 200gr pointy ones, it is not the same as the .500 S&W. Listen to Whitworth, 44Man and Subsonic. They have forgotten more about big bore shooting than I shall ever know. The other posters I simply don't know.

I'l parrot the advice on the Ultra Dot. Mine has held up to both X frames just fine!

[subsonic]

Listen to Whitworth, 44Man and Subsonic. They have forgotten more about big bore shooting than I shall ever know. The other posters I simply don't know.

Thank you, but I'm a newbie compared to the other fellows mentioned and I'm sure there are many others that have much more experience with the big guns than I do.

[Paulinski]

I have both the 6.5" and 8-3/8" S&W500. I tend to shoot my 8-3/8" more...

[Crawdaddy]

I made my decision 8 3/8 barrel. I hope to pick it up tonight. I will post pictures if I do. I know everyone knows what they look like but you will be able to see the beaming smile on my ugly mug.

[bjeffv]

I picked up the regular 4" and 8" barreled 500s, then I compared trigger pull and action to the performance center version.

Much Much Much smoother action on the performance center, and way crisper trigger break in single action mode.

Needless to say I bought the 7.5" barreled performance center version, and it has been a great gun.

I thought the 7.5" also balanced better in my hands than the 8" version for open sight alignment.

[69daytona]

I sold my 4" S&W 500 and regret it still but will wait and get one of John Ross's 5" which would be a perfect packin gun. I do still have my 6.5 and my 10 1/2" PC and they both shoot excellent.
For pig hunting with a hot load that has light recoil for a 500 I go with my 385gr HP/FP mold, will do 1600 comfortably. I use to shoot these out of my 4" rapid fire.
They will all shoot as good as you can and if you stick to a 350-450gr like the new NOE mold from John Ross's design you wont go wrong.