Comparing pocket revolvers

[Coffeecup]

I'm in the process of preparing to hunt for a new pocket revolver, and need to compare some sizes. I've narrowed the search down (probably) to S&W J-frames, Ruger SP101s, and Charter's Bulldog Pug. Probably. I'm still thinking a 3" S&W 65 might be a viable option.

Anyhow, I've not been able to see a live SP101, and haven't held a Bulldog for probably a decade. Does anyone have pics comparing either or both of these to either a J-frame or K-frame Smith?

Thanks!
Jim

[Treeman]

The SP 101 is a nice gun but it is heavy for pocket gun. The Bulldog Pug is lighter but big for a pocket. For pocket carry the S&W j frames, Charter Undercovers and Ruger LCR reign. My choice is an LCR. Sorry I don't have pics but the Pug is Colt D frame size. The others are all more or less Smith J frame size.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

All 3 listed above are fine choices, and you will be well served by anyone of them so long as you practice and keep it always at hand. Is this going to be a gun for daily carry no excuses? If so I would and personally do carry a S&W j-frame in 357 day in and day out. Another thing to give serious thought to (if you have not done so already) is the method of carry. A proper holster that fits your body style and fashion is the real key to concealed carry.

[308w]

I've had several j frame smiths, they pocket carry very well, current flavor is a 649 357 Magnum, There is no way you will fit a 65 in jean pockets, I have one it won't fit... but is a fine piece for holster duty. 308w

[Coffeecup]

Thanks for the thoughts guys.

Mostly, I'm looking for a peace-of-mind, always-in-reach-when-possible, stick it in the pocket gun. Holsters are great, but from experience I know I won't always take the time to put one on. (I'd bet money that over a 20 year period my 1911 spent more time stuck in my waistband than it did in various holsters.) For now I'm thinking a pocket holster, and we'll see where it goes from there.

I suspect I'll not shoot it as much as I did my 1911s or various Smiths over the years, but 10-15 rounds 3 or 4 times a week is a realistic expectation. In a .357, those would probably be a handload equivalent to the 38Spec +P 158 LSW; in the 44, probably a 200-240 gr SWC at about 750-800fps.

By preference I'm looking for DAO, shrouded hammer, steel frame, and 2-3" barrel. I can settle for a bobbed hammer spur instead of DAO and shrouded hammer if need be. But size is going to be important, probably one of the first factors after reliability.

Years ago I was right fond of a Security Industries 357 with the hammer bobbed, but it wasn't 100% reliable (probably due to the hammer job) and I wasn't able to source a new spring. I didn't even consider the LCR, I've had too many headaches over the years waiting for Ruger to work the bugs out of their latest-and-greatest: it works better for me to wait ten years until they've got the things working or out of production.

308W, thanks for the tip--I used to carry a Model 13 HB in my pocket, but I was working construction and wore BDU pants most of the time. I hadn't considered how much smaller the pockets are on a pair of jeans!

[subsonic]

A hammerless, lightweight J- frame is the most "pocketable".

[Bullwolf]

Here is a picture of my S&W442 Airweight alongside my Ruger SP101.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_187904f332e5a776fa.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3864)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_187904f309093ba7c8.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3824)

I bobbed the hammer on the Ruger SP101, and had the gun converted to DAO. I also had a set of Eagle Secret Service grips on the SP101 for a short time. The grips hardly print at all, and a shirt is not prone to stick to them. Sadly, they don't give you a lot to hang onto either. The grips were quite concealable, but I managed to split and break the expensive grip panels under recoil, while shooting a full box of factory .357 Magnum rounds through the SP101. The felt recoil is pretty sharp on the little Ruger, and the larger Hogue grips allow me to wrap more of my hand around the gun.

My Smith Airweight with a DeSanti's Clip grip is MUCH easier to carry. It's also lighter and smaller than the Ruger SP101.

I rarely take my SP101 with me now. It was often loaded with .38 Specials anyways. The SP101 shoots great, and is a really nice and accurate gun, but it's also much heavier to wear it all day than my Smith 442 Airweight. I can simply slip the 442 into my pocket if I want. I grab the 442 whenever I am go outside to feed and water the horses, or to do anything around the property. If I want a holstered gun to wear, I prefer one with an intact hammer, so now the Ruger stays at home most days, unless I really feel the need for a compact .357 magnum pistol.

I find the new lightweight alloy J-frame's in .357 miserable to shoot with full power .357 magnum loads, and I am a reasonably big guy. (over 6'2 and 200 lbs with medium to largish hands) Everyone tolerates recoil differently, but I would rather shoot something big and heavy with a slow recoil impulse. I find the sharp snappy recoil of the lightweight .357 magnums in the small frame pistols a bit too obnoxious. Full house .357 magnum loads get shot through my larger framed wheel guns.

The Ruger SP101 is about the smallest lightest .357 magnum that I can tolerate, but it's just a bit to heavy for me to use it as a pocket gun. I am likely to take the Airweight with me almost everyplace I go. There were times when I would leave the SP101 in my truck because it would pull my pants down, or just be uncomfortable while doing work around the ranch.



- Bullwolf

[Matthew 25]

I am the biggest fan of the SP101, it is my go-to carry gun but it is in a holster (Bianchi Lightning). It is very accurate, point of aim from 2-25 yards, very strong. It now looks like Bullwolf's but has Pachmeyers and has been sand blasted to a dull finish. (Nice pics by the way, Bullwolf).

That being said, it is not an ideal pocket gun. It is heavy and it will sag a heavy Carhartt jacket. I carried it for years tucked in the front of my pants, worked really well for my build.

I agree the Bulldog is awesome but is also a little bulky for a pocket rocket.
I think you should decide on caliber. If 38 is OK, then go with a light Smith. If you want something with more horsepower that works in your pocket, a 357 Airlight Smith may be the one.

[Coffeecup]

Bullwolf, thanks for the pics--it helps a bunch!

From a perspective of pocketability, I agree an Airweight would be more desirable. I've just never had good luck with them. I can't shoot one as fast, or hit as well--they throw my point shooting off. Weight can be a good thing sometimes, the 3" Model 13 was perfect for me.

I'd hoped to get enough of an idea from the pics tonight to just order a new revolver, but after looking at Bullwolf's pics I think I better find a shop that has a few in stock to compare.

Thanks guys!
Jim

[crazy mark]

I'll probably be laughed at here but I like my 32 long and mag pocket pistols. I have a Ruger 32 Mag and many H&R 32 longs and Mags to choose frome. Even a Llama 32 long revolver. They are pretty light weight and good out to 50-75' with-out any problems.

[subsonic]

What about a S&W 315NG? Spendy I know..... but light-ish and a 6 shot .38 that will take all the +P you can throw and more. Not far from a model 13.

Google says it's 24oz.

[PacMan]

I quit carryng my 1911s for the most part and now carry either a Smith Air Lite PD made of scandium ,sorry no picture, or a SW 60-15 3" . I really like the 60-15 for reasons shown by picture but the Air Lite carries really well.

[PacMan]

I need to weight the 60-15 but the AirLite with 5 -160gr 357s weight in at an even 14 ounces on my postal scale. Good for up close and personal business.

There are places in this country i would not venture into with out one of my 1911s but these days i try to avoid such places more than i used to.

Older wiser and more cautious these days. Shoot i figured out that i wasnt bullet prof after all.what a let down.

[Bret4207]

Bullwolf, thanks for the pics--it helps a bunch!

From a perspective of pocketability, I agree an Airweight would be more desirable. I've just never had good luck with them. I can't shoot one as fast, or hit as well--they throw my point shooting off. Weight can be a good thing sometimes, the 3" Model 13 was perfect for me.

I'd hoped to get enough of an idea from the pics tonight to just order a new revolver, but after looking at Bullwolf's pics I think I better find a shop that has a few in stock to compare.

Thanks guys!
Jim

Change your grips. I hit way low hip shooting my Airweight Bodyguard. Added a T-grip and my groups hit much closer to where I want. Plus, the T-grip is nickled and looks very "Barnaby Jones-y". Drives the chicks wild......well, okay it drives 87 year old great grandmas wild! They're they only ones that remember Barnaby.

[izzyjoe]

my freind has a taurus .357, i don't know the model. but it's a lightweight, with titanium frame, and it has some decent grips from the factory. i've shot it on several outings, and i was gona carry one this would be it.

[izzyjoe]

correction,,, i called him. it's a model 85 ultra-lite 38+p. i was thinking it was 357, but the reason he choose 38 over 357 was the recoil, he had a smith 357, and loved the gun, but hated the sharp recoil.

[Coffeecup]

Crazy Mark, I learned a long time ago not to laugh at anyone who is carrying a gun. I'm not a good enough shot to rely on a .32.

Subsonic, if I were sure I'd be able to carry a K-frame, I'd stick with the Model 13 or 65.

I know the lightweights are more pocketable. What they aren't--at least for me--is more shootable, and more hittable. I've tried changing grips (I seldom shoot a Smith without at least a T-Grip, and more usually aftermarket/custom grips), different barrel lengths, custom 'smithing, etc. I just don't shoot them well. Since pocket pistols are marginal at best, I want to do everything I can to increase hit probability; for me, that means I want the weight of a steel frame.

Izzyjoe, some folks have really good luck with Taurus revolvers. Unfortunately, I'm not one of them, so I don't consider them for any purpose these days. If I were one of the lucky ones, I've always sort of fancied the 85CH.

[leadman]

I have a 60s' era S&W 36 with 3" barrel. With the Hogue grips on it I have shot 12" 100 yard groups. I really like the 3" vs the 2". The downside is a holster for the 3" can be hard to find.
I am thinking of a grip clip for it.

[EMC45]

I have 2 J Frame .32 S&W-Ls that I am fond of. One is a 3 in. and the other a snub. Also have a snub Model 36. All fine for carry.

[FIRERESCUEO2]

I'm bringing my wife out to try a few small revolvers for this very same issue - finding the right model and size for her. She can shoot about any firearm I have but has trouble with racking the slide, loading the last few rounds into magazines and mostly the weight issue of CCing with most larger caliber semi-autos that we have, and/or still own. I love the SP 101 myself, and have owned one in the past ....... but this time it is not for me. I also want her to carry something that she can easily put into action if required - and she feels a revolver is the best option as it is basically a "no-brainer". The only concerns I have for her are reliability, weight and comfort as she normally wears light weight gear for jogging/walking - so most likely this will ride in a fanny pack/belly band until she changes back to normal dress wear and can use a good holster or pocket.

I carry a Glock 20 or 29 in 10mm and she has no problem shooting them - they just weigh too much and are too bulky for her to comfortably carry. So, we were recently looking at the Ruger LCR 357Mag or a small J-Frame S&W as well - most likely a hammer-less or bobbed model. We are leaning toward the LCR right now as she want's something lightweight for taking walks with the dog. I plan on her shooting and carrying 38SP or some light +P loads to start but have the option of the 357MAG if we ever want to go that route. That way she can take it to what ever level she is comfortable with as I can custom load any of the rounds.

Have you looked at or compared the Ruger LCR to the S&W J Frames? I'm stuck right now and not sure which direction to go ......... Ruger or S&W - Maybe I should get both!! Any bad reviews on the LCR?

[Lonegun1894]

I used to have a Taurus 605 hammerless snubbie .357, and it was great while it lasted. It took about 10K rounds to wear it down enough to where the timing suffered and the accuracy went down hill. I have now replaced it with a Ruger SP101 and if this Ruger lasts as well as every other Ruger I have ever had (and still have most of them) then I dont think I will ever wear it out. Having said that, the old Taurus, like the Ruger now, spends most of it's time in a pocket holster on the opposite side from my 5" 1911, so the little bit of extra weight doesn't bother me at all, and makes the gun more comfortable to shoot. It is slightly bigger than the Taurus was (which is basically a copy of the S&W, just not as well executed), but not big enough to where it wont carry well in the pocket of my jeans. Here is what I would suggest. If you want cheap and small, go with Taurus. If you want it very strong and dont mind extra weight, get the Ruger SP101--I cant comment on the LCRs as I haven't shot them more than a handful of rounds of .38 Special. If you want light and smooth, go with S&W. The only Charter Arms I have ever shot was a .44 Special, so slightly larger than the .38/.357 framed guns. I liked it, but have heard mixed reviews regarding a few of them shooting loose like my Taurus did. Like I said, my money went toward a Ruger, so I'm a bit prejudiced in that regard.

[Coffeecup]

Lonegun1894, you definitely had a better Taurus experience than I did! For me, weight is not as much a factor as "concealability." I'd carry a pair of Ruger Alaskans if they fit in my pockets, and buy suspenders if I needed to. I'm leaning strongly towards the SP101, but won't make any decisions til I have the chance to shoot one.

I'm kind of looking at it that a steel J-frame is my fallback position, and that is a pretty good place to be.

[jameslovesjammie]

Take a hard look at the S&W Bodyguard 38. Comes in just a little over 14 oz. 5 shot polymer framed J frame size. The absolute best thing about the gun is that S&W moved the cylinder latch to the top of the gun as opposed to the side of the frame. Anyone who has been "bitten" by the cylinder latch on a J frame will appreciate this.

It also comes with a built in laser on the frame instead of laser grips, a nice feature. Local pricing has the Bodyguard selling for $50 less than the LCR that doesn't come with the laser and $150 less than the LCR with the laser.

This what my 72 year old Grandma just ordered. It is also on my list for a CCW piece, if I can ever get into a class.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

look into a K holster for a second option to the pocket holster , have had mine for a several weeks now , the most comfortable inside the waste band holster i have ever tried. it is really right there with my OWB holster for comfort but a t-shirt even tucked in covers the gun with any IWB holster wearing a under shirt is helpful.

i have a bit extra around the belt so finding a holster and a place to wear it was more difficult for me , than if i weighed what i should what can i say , i like to eat good food

as far as guns , i was seriously looking at a 638 or 642 as options before i purchased my current carry gun , the nice part about a j frame is everyone has a holster for them

[Snyd]

I've got a det spc which I like. But, I'd really like to get a Taurus Titanium 45 Colt snubbie someday.

Too bad no one makes a 5 shot 45 acp snubbie.

[gunfan]

The S&W Airweight makes a lot of sense, and there are plenty on the used market. I am securing a hammerless model in .32 H&R Magnum. The trigger can be staged for target work, and it is quick enough for lightning-fast double tap drills.

I still view the Ruger LCR as a "unknown" long-term performer. For me, the jury is still out. While the SP101 is a proven performer, it is also too heavy to function as a true "pocket" revolver.

Scott

[gunfan]

I've got a det spc which I like. But, I'd really like to get a Taurus Titanium 45 Colt snubbie someday.

Too bad no one makes a 5 shot 45 acp snubbie.

Charter Arms is developing one as we speak.

Scott

[Coffeecup]

Firerescue02, with your question in mind I did a brief side-by-side between a Chief's Special, an Airweight Centennial and an LCR. Recovery time was notably longer for me with the LCR, even compared to the Airweight (granted, those were my first 15 rounds through an LCR, and I've a couple thousand through an Airweight, and probably ten thousand through various Chief's Specials). Point shooting was off too, but no more than might be expected. There was a definite snap to the hand with the LCR, moreso than the others. All in all, not to my taste, but it didn't strike me as a "bad" revolver: just very different.

Jamielovesjammie, the Bodyguard is an option, but as I've said before in this thread, a steel frame is a necessary consideration for me. Alloys, polymers, etc are out of the picture.

GreencountryPete, a belt holster just isn't an option for me in this case. I've no idea what the K holster is, but one of the best IWB holsters I found for a J-frame is a lot like a Summer Special for the 1911. Not perhaps the most comfortable, but secure and easy to access

[200swc]

85% of the time, I have a 442 in my pants pocket or coat pocket as a backup. Great little gun.

What is a T-grip?

[Coffeecup]

The T-grip is an adapter that fills in the space between the grip frame and trigger guard. Take a look here: http://www.t-grips.com/TGrips.html They do a nice job of this without increasing the bulk of the grips.