H&I converted to press-mount push through?

[geargnasher]

Help me remember, I did several searches but came up empty. Someone here posted pics a while back of a 7/8x14 threaded insert they made that would hold an H die minus the ejector upside down in a single-stage press, and IIRC a shellholder adapter that would hold the "I" ejector so a person could use their current selection of Lyman or RCBS dies like a Lee push-through die. Am I smoking crack, or is somebody making these for sale?

TIA,

Gear

[stubshaft]

Sounds like a great idea Gear but I don't remember seeing anything resembling what you describe.

[KTN]

I made one few years ago, but it was 1 1/4"-12 thread size.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o277/kainiin/IMG_1088.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o277/kainiin/IMG_1086.jpg



Kaj

[94Doug]

Seems like a great idea. It also seems like something several of our members could certainly market.

Doug

[taminsong]

KTN, if you will sell, I like to buy one.
Its nice to be first in line, lol!

[geargnasher]

KTN, if you will sell, I like to buy one.
Its nice to be first in line, lol!

Hey now, I get first dibs 'cause it's my thread! :kidding:

That's way too cool, KTN. Would it work with 7/8x14? I have presses with both sizes and bushings so no matter, but I had it stuck in my head that the adapter I saw was for regular sized dies.

Gear

[Mk42gunner]

I think Beagle did some work on this, and it seems like there is an article on castpics about it.

IIRC the push rod was a 5/16 bolt threaded into a shellholder, the ones from Lee would be too short to push a boolit all the way through an H die.

Robert

[462]

Hmmm . . . just a few days ago, I had an unsuccessful search, too.

[Calamity Jake]

I made one by boreing out an old 9MM expander die leaving a shoulder at the bottom for the H&I to butup against and the ID set so the H&I "O" ring holds it in.
I also made push rods that fit the press ram.

I will try to remember to post pics tonight.

[Larry Gibson]

You can use the 450/4500 press for a push through. Before putting the H die in the press push the stop rod up through the hole and remove. Screw the rod stop all the way down. Remove the I die from the H die and install in the 450. You can push the bullet through the H die and they come out the bottom. Usually one or more bullets, depending on bullet length is need to push them through. If base first the appropriate nose punch is used. If nose first then I use a nose punch on caliober smaller that I've made a flat face on. I catch the pushed through bullet easily with the one hand not pulling the 450 handle. When done I use the I die pushed back in to remove the bullet(s) still in the H die.

Works for me.

Larry Gibson

[geargnasher]

Larry, I picked that trick up from Bullshop Daniel years ago, but thanks for mentioning it anyway. The issue is sometimes that doesn't work well due to wobbly, sloppy Lyman 450/4500 sizer rams, and the 45s which keeps better alignment sometimes don't have the leverage needed.

Gear

[Char-Gar]

Some years back, Buckshot made up a gizmo to hold such dies upside down, minus the ejector pin in a standard press. IIRC he modified an RCBS aluminum decapping die for such use. I got one and it works great.

There were a couple of screws that were used to align the die in the gizmo so the push rod would hit dead center. I found this difficult to make happen, so I removed the screws, coated the outside of the sizing die with bullet lube and used the push through pin to shove it into the die. The lube took up the extra space and alignment was perfect.

I still use this gizmo on a regular basis.

[scrapcan]

gear try this link on cast pics. it is an article by Crazy Mark and Beagle

http://www.castpics.net/subsite2/HowTo/Nose%20First%20Sizing.pdf

[462]

Manleyjt,
Thanks, that's the one I was looking for.

[Calamity Jake]

I made one by boreing out an old 9MM expander die leaving a shoulder at the bottom for the H&I to butup against and the ID set so the H&I "O" ring holds it in.
I also made push rods that fit the press ram.

I will try to remember to post pics tonight.

Ok here's some pics of the unit I made.

http://photos.gunloads.com/images/CalamityJake/pushthrusizer2800x600.jpg

http://photos.gunloads.com/images/CalamityJake/pushthrusizer1800x600.jpg

http://photos.gunloads.com/images/CalamityJake/pushthrusizer800x600.jpg

[HARRYMPOPE]

h-i dies slip in Lee Collet die bodies.(not all but most will)CBA guys were using these with the Eagan "T" taper dies 10-15 years back to make controlled stop bump/taper dies.A hollow threaded stock is run tough the to keep the die in.
The late Larry Jennings(or Ed Doonan) had good write up on this in the Fouling shot.I made one and it worked well.It went with rifle it was made for when i sold it so i have no pictures.Hardware store parts a drill and a hacksaw and a Lee body will get you going. Use a lee push though sizer rod to push them through.
George

[crazy mark]

I think Beagle did some work on this, and it seems like there is an article on castpics about it.

IIRC the push rod was a 5/16 bolt threaded into a shellholder, the ones from Lee would be too short to push a boolit all the way through an H die.

Robert

Beagle, Myself and Ben all have these. It's what you said. I found RCBS aluminum sizer bodies to hold the H die and threaded Lee shell holders for 5/16 bolts turned down for different calibers. No plan to ever mass produce them. Mark

[beagle]

Aluminum die bodies are best. You can in a pinch use a 7/8 X 14 adapter opened up to .700". Anneal a RCBS shellholder and D & T for a 5/16 X 24 TPI bolt. These are available for any hardware. You generally need about five plungers. .22, .30. .35, .44 and .458.

Mine works good and eliminates any nose distortion at all.

Some RCBS sizers have about a 1/8" collar that has to be turned down before they'll fit in the adapter./beagle

[Char-Gar]

Seems like Old Home Week around here. Sure is good to see Mark and Beagle posting in the same thread.

[scrapcan]

I agree, man where have you guys been?

[beagle]

Oh, we talk cast bullets and dogs about every night via e-mail and still talk projects. Just don't get together that much on here.

Been on here a lot recently as the weather and a bum leg is keeping me inside./beagle

[beagle]

Wish we could get one of the machinst gurus to market these things for the general site population.

It's just general metal working and not rocket science but seems like no one is interested. For me, it's a must have with .22s, .25s and some long .30s. No bending of noses and I went a long time before I discovered that I was bending noses on these when seating GCs. They are also darn fine pieces of equipment to have for downsizing bullets...especially some of the smaller .458s to .452.

The beautiful part is that you already have the sizer./beagle

[theperfessor]

Beagle, I've stayed out of this because I didn't want to horn in on another member's business interests. Another member here has told me to check out this thread. Apparently nobody makes these in a regular basis as a standard product, is that correct? I would be glad to pick up on this and add it to my product line. I can usually figure out how to make small volume production runs come out OK financially to both buyer and seller, and I'm lining up some new machines that this would work great with.

But I'm not wanting to step into my neighbor's yard and steal his cherries either.

[geargnasher]

That's the one, the Mark/beagle/Ben project! Thanks for jogging my memory, I think I have all the parts and tools on hand.

Gear

[coyotebait]

+1 Harrympope

When Harrympope said a Lee collet die body fit the H& I die, I tried it. I modified a Lee Collet neck sizer die body and used a Lee push through punch. It works! The pros and cons are these.

Pros: Inexpensive, as no machining is required, only a hacksaw, file and sandpaper.
Easy
Works well
Oring or lube will retain the die in the adapter

Cons:RCBS dies do not fit, they are a little fatter.
Lee punch is too short to push boolit all the way through. I do not cosider this a problem but some may.
Short die, I put the die jam nut on underside of the press and screw it in from the bottom.


Here are some pictures of the setup from my album.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/album.php?albumid=674

I will need to replace the die body I cut with this: http://leeprecision.com/ns-body-3.073.html
to make the collet neck sizer opreable again.

coyotebait

[scrapcan]

Perfesser,

In your testing and prototyping try one that has the cavity so that you put a piece of plastic bag between the sizer and the die body. I have a cast bullet sizer that uses small carbide rings and they are held in my this method. The die is made by WTA manufacturing.

[beagle]

perfessor,

Go for it. I'm not intending to market them and I'd like to see the guys be able to get these tools to use. Best to share the knowledge if we can. I don't think Mark will market them either but you can ask him.

I got all kinds of little gizmos I'm working on but have moved away from my machinst so I have to get up there when I can.

Get these guys started on it./beagle


Beagle, I've stayed out of this because I didn't want to horn in on another member's business interests. Another member here has told me to check out this thread. Apparently nobody makes these in a regular basis as a standard product, is that correct? I would be glad to pick up on this and add it to my product line. I can usually figure out how to make small volume production runs come out OK financially to both buyer and seller, and I'm lining up some new machines that this would work great with.

But I'm not wanting to step into my neighbor's yard and steal his cherries either.

[94Doug]

Perfessor, I wonder if the die you made me for the Rockchucker would be a good starting point? I suppose that would limit the use to that type of press though.

Doug

[theperfessor]

Beagle, thanks for your blessing. I want to think this thing through before I start making chips. Please don't take me wrong when I say that I don't want to just copy what has been done, I always want to improve it in some way. The pictures in this thread show tools of high quality, an improvement might just be in tooling and materials to make small lot production economically feasible.

I have a sort of design review process I make myself go through when I look at product design. I'm going to go back to the basic premise of "what's the best way to use a Lyman/RCBS die in a regular loading press for push thru sizing" and go from there, respectfully using what has already been done as one possible high quality solution.

Doug, thanks for referring me to this thread. I think something that would fit a standard press would have a larger demand and could still be used in a Rockchucker. But maybe the larger size thread of the RC might permit a conversion die that would turn it into a Star clone, sizing AND lubing. What do you think?

[cabezaverde]

But maybe the larger size thread of the RC might permit a conversion die that would turn it into a Star clone, sizing AND lubing. What do you think?

That sounds very interesting.

[AnthonyB]

Mark:
You made one for me as well. Apparently I'm a member of a very small club!
Tony

[williamwaco]

Check here


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/album.php?albumid=674&pictureid=4924

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=1581411&highlight=coyotebait#post1581411

[Hang Fire]

I want to thank all you guys for the information and ideas you have posted here.

The RCBS aluminum deprimming die info really caught my attention. I have a RCBS .38 aluminum depriming die, checked the ID and it was 0.730”, checked the OD of the boolit lubrisizer dies, was 0.725”. Looking good, I pressed in one of the sizing dies with o-ring, went in to just beyond bottom of RCBS die and with the o-ring a very good snug fit. Just to give it a try, I put the works into the Lee Classic cast press with a .457” LSD and a .452” Lee push through punch in the ram. Hand lubed some .461” hard cast boolits and it sized 15 of them nose first like a champ. I will tap a shell holder 5/16” as recommended, chuck some 5/16” bolts up in the mini-lathe, turn down the heads and make up some correct diameter punches.

So thanks to you guys, I will be able to do nose first push through sizing of those long and skinny boolits using standard LSD with practically no work involved for doing so.

Now to rig up a boolit catcher after they are pushed through.

[94Doug]

I'm certainly interested in either design!!

Doug

[Char-Gar]

For a nose catcher make the gizmo tall enough and turn the top to accept a Lee plastic bullet catcher that comes with their push through sizing die.

[geargnasher]

Good idea, Char-Gar. I'd like to see a shellholder adapter that would hold the "I" punch with a three-jaw, 1/2" drill chuck so it would be "universal".

Perfessor, as far as making a lube attachment goes, you might have to make the die holder body for the "big" press hole (I forget the size, the one that the .50 BMG die sets use) in order to have room for lube passages to the die.

Gear

[KTN]

1 ½"-12 thread on RCBS and Hornady .50 BMG dies.
1 1/4"-12 size is big enough for lube channels. Problem is, how to control lube flow during sizing operation. Not so easy if using H&I dies.


Kaj

[Buckshot]

..............I've made these before but have no patent or claim to them, and certainly suggest anyone caring to make them to do so.

http://www.fototime.com/E9FED78C79EC8F8/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/9F6F58D495BD56A/standard.jpg

LEFT: I prefer to use a 1-1/4 - 12 body. RIGHT: This particular one is made to utilize the Star size die. You can see an internal "O" to retain the die.

http://www.fototime.com/5D82C97D69260C6/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/F1C3B7DF99D5B3A/standard.jpg

LEFT: This is the bottom. The end the boolit see's. RIGHT: The top, the end the boolit exits. I use this size body by default as it allows any common size die to be held with plenty of clearance and a thick enough surrounding wall.

................Buckshot

[theperfessor]

Very nice work!