Misfire??????

[Fly]

Guy,s I need some thoughts here.I have been shooting ML for over 30 years.
Last year I bought my first Lyman GPR.I love this gun, but I'm having a problem
that,s about to drive me nuts.

My first shot almost never fires here of late.I have to pull the nipple & drop
a very small amount of powder in that hole, then screw the nipple back in
& it will fire just fine & never have to again.I always pop a few caps threw
her before ever trying to shoot, to dry it out.

To day before ever trying to shoot, I ceaned her with hot soapy water
with the nipple out.I dryed her as well as I could & even poured some
isopropyl alcohol down the barrel with the nipple out & blew in the
muzzle to make sure it all came out.

I even ran a pipe cleaner in the nipple hole were it screws in & tryed
to feed it as far into the barrel area.Popped two caps to dry it out &
same problem.After I put a small amount of powder down the hole
where the nipple screws in it shoots all day, with not a problem.

This rifle is the only one I own that gives me this problem.When I first
got it I don,t remember it doing this.I'm told not to remove the set
scew in the side where they drilled the hole into the barrel.But I
wonder if there might be some **** in there.

Your thoughts please.
Fly:confused:

[Boerrancher]

When I am cleaning my MLs I pull every thing I can off the barrel. If there is a piece with threads in it that leads to the chamber, it comes out and is cleaned and dried just like, nipples, touch hole liners, etc. I never leave anything together that will come apart. So, with that said, if it were mine I would have pulled the set screw after the first time I shot it. I hope this helps you decide to pull the set screw and find out what is clogging up the works.

Best wishes,

Joe

[725]

Have you ever tried not popping a couple caps before a session? I have run into caps that deposit some debris and clog up the works. I guess the pressures from firing solve the issue. Odd.

[waksupi]

I look for breech fouling if this happens. It is hard as cement, and a real pain to get out. Try soaking the breech end over night in a solvent of some sort, and then try a breech scraper, see what you find. If you have a bright flashlight, look down the bore, you may be able to see the problem.

[Fly]

I look for breech fouling if this happens. It is hard as cement, and a real pain to get out. Try soaking the breech end over night in a solvent of some sort, and then try a breech scraper, see what you find. If you have a bright flashlight, look down the bore, you may be able to see the problem.

waksupi whats your thoughts on pulling that side set screw also?

Fly

[docone31]

That is one of the first thing I swap out. I get one that fresh and I can get an Allen Wrench in.
There were several factors with mine that resulted in misfires.
First, the nipple went too far into the threads and crud was trapping the flame front. I found this out by removing the clean out screw. Second, I had a burr in the channel from the threads being tapped. This moved in front of the channel restricting the flame front. With the clean out screw removed, I could see how freely the cap could fire. I removed the restrictions, and feeling confidant, I went to the range.
....Snap...nothing.....
I got her to fire, changing caps, snapping some off, in all an ok day. Not what I had wanted. I went home, and did some trouble shooting. Nipple, clean out screw, hard crud in the channel, etc... Nothing.
Then I found it! I had an old cap part stuck in the hammer cup! This softened the strike on the cap and gave me misfires! It popped right out with a jewelers screwdriver. It had just slowed the cap firing just enough to prevent reliable ignition.
I then checked the nipple hammer alignment. No one is perfect and I had one that was way off. The piece of cap had made the hammer hit on a small portion of the nipple. Duh.
When I clean the rifle, I put the nipple under clear water and use the swab on my ramrod to pull water in and out, untill it comes clean. I remove the nipple and do it again.
At any rate, welcome to the fun of firing black powder rifles!
I enjoy the challenges.

[Boerrancher]

My dad's friend who got me into front suffers and casting when I was a little kid always said that if you wanted to develop your problem solving skills, nothing was better for it than an old flint lock rifle, the cap lock was right behind it for a close second, and right behind that was accurate cast boolits.

Pull the screw in the side of the gun and the nipple so you can see what is going on in there.

Best wishes,

Joe

[waksupi]

In this case, I would pull the nipple and screw to check them. Others wiser than I, have told me to put good never seize grease on a nipple, and not to remove it more than once a year. Otherwise, you will be looking for a nipple with over size threads in a couple years, due to thread wear.

[Boerrancher]

If you put a light coat of good grease on the nipple threads they shouldn't wear out in a couple of years. But that is just my thoughts and I know there are those out there who are wiser than I.

Best wishes,

Joe

[wgr]

that rifle has small counter bore at the bottom of the barrel. to clean my 54 i use a 38cal. bore brush to get down into it.the lyman instruction book said this .

[750k2]

I'd bet the patent breech is caked.:confused:
I had a breech cleaner/scraper cut for one but where I got it can't remember.
Sold it off with the rifle - Don't do patents anymore.
Life is easier now.

[Fly]

( look for breech fouling if this happens. It is hard as cement, and a real pain to get out. Try soaking the breech end over night in a solvent of some sort, and then try a breech scraper, see what you find.)

Wow some great ideas from all you guys.But let me past this by you.The Quote above got
me to thinking,& some times that's not good, but.They make a decarbing stuff called
Sea Foam that cut carbon in boat & car engines.

I thought about pouring some down the barrel, & let it soak.The say it does not hurt
metal of any kind, just soften carbon.What do you think???

Fly

[docone31]

That sounds good. As long as you can get it out also.

[Fly]

That sounds good. As long as you can get it out also.

Well I would think a good cleaning solvent would do that.

Fly[smilie=f:

[Boerrancher]

Sea Foam is good, and will do exactly what you want it to do. One of the best things I have found to use in cleaning is PB blaster. I remove the touch hole liner and spray a good amount in the breech and let it soak for a bit then go in with a brush and cleaning rod and scrub the patent breach with a smaller cal bore brush. I don't do this every time I shoot but do it on a regular basis.

Best wishes,

Joe

[idahoron]

Fly. I posted a thread a while back about this. Here is a link. ROn

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=136210

[DIRT Farmer]

I have guns I have been pulling the nipples from after shooting for more than 30 years and the threads are still good. I have traded for guns that have the nipple over tightened one time and the threads are ruined. Use a good grease and remember you don't need a 1/2 inch drive to tighten it.

In compation where a miss fire is a lost target, at the end of every day pull the nipple, wash the gun and nipple, clean the flash channel with a "Ream and clean" pipe cleaner. Not getting the flash channel and threads verry verry clean will cause rust and a slow firing gun and a trip to the gunsmith to get the nipple threads re cut and the flash channel reamed.

just my humble obversations and the oppertunity to buy some good guns real cheap.

[Omnivore]

Fly; Who ever told you not to remove the "set screw" in the side was giving you bad advice. Lyman calls it a "clean out screw" for good reason.

My Lyman has the same snail breech. I dunk it in the hot water and "slush pump" the water through the nipple, then remove the nipple and rapid slush pump through the nipple threads, then reinstall the nipple, remove the clean-out screw and slush pump through the clean-out hole. Swab the clean-out hole with a bristly pipe cleaner after you're done with the water. It usually comes out white.

And for sure and for certain you have a patent breech (breech plug with a chamber smaller than the bore). All breech snail percussion guns have one. It's the only way to make them, if you think about it, unless the barrel outside diameter is gigantic. Only a separate powder drum screwed into the side of the barrel in front of the breech plug will allow a solid breech.

I don't know your barrel's caliber, but my 50 cal Lyman has a breech chamber of about 35 cal. I swab it out every time I clean the bore, using a 35 cal jag, filed flat on the end so it gets to the bottom of the breech chamber. Patch over the jag, as per normal. Then Bore Butter everything with a patch while the barrel's still hot. I pop one cap (and sometimes not) before loading, and I've let off hundreds of shots with no ignition problems.

I do NOT understand why gun manufacturers fail to provide for the cleaning of the breech chamber. It should be included in the design of the ram rod, with an attachment provided, but so far as I know, no one does it.

By the sound of it (one shot to clear it out, then subsequent shots go off without a problem) you’ve had water or oil or some such gathering in the flash channel at the clean-out, or in the breech chamber (possibly among the accumulated gunk that’s in there) or both. The first shot clears it and then it’s good.

Though we sometimes make it complicated, it’s actually fairly simple.

It might be worth knowing that my Lyman, with the original nipple, has the clean out screw jamming into the threads of the nipple at the bottom end of the nipple threads, such that I have to loosen the clean-out screw before I loosen the nipple, or I end up boogering the nipple threads. Reassembly must be in the reverse, for the same reason. I don't know if it's intended that way and has a good reason for it, if it's bad design, or bad execution, or if no one at InvestArm (in Italy where Lymans are made) ever bothered to think about it.

[405]

I have guns I have been pulling the nipples from after shooting for more than 30 years and the threads are still good. I have traded for guns that have the nipple over tightened one time and the threads are ruined. Use a good grease and remember you don't need a 1/2 inch drive to tighten it.



That is good advice and have been doing that for over 40 years with a couple of my MLs and the threads are as tight as they were when new. But, I guess that's akin to why some spark plug seats get stripped or buggered, "gee Billy Bub, wunder wut dat 20 ft lbs torque means?" :):)
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As far as a factory scraper for the recess in some breech plugs go, I think T/C has been offering a scraper especially sized for their style plugs for a long time.

"It might be worth knowing that my Lyman, with the original nipple, has the clean out screw jamming into the threads of the nipple at the bottom end of the nipple threads, such that I have to loosen the clean-out screw before I loosen the nipple, or I end up boogering the nipple threads."----- That should be an easy fix. Just chuck the clean-out screw in a drill or drill press and turn down the length or re-profile the end with a mill file until no contact with the nipple. Unless I missed something???

I had to do that with some ML I was working on- can't remember (CRS) which one it was though. Not a 5 minute job.

[Omnivore]

If I shorten the nipple threads, there's no surface against which the headless clean-out screw can tighten. I guess the fix would be to shorten the nipple threads, then replace the clean-out screw with some other type. It just hasn't bothered me much, but then there's another issue; they supply a take-down tool that includes a nipple wrench, a little "hammer" for the barrel wedge (though it's steel so it'll bang up the key and the key escutcheon) and a hook for pulling the key, but to remove the teeny weeny clean-out screw they supply a separate, teeny weeny, super-easy-to-lose Allen wrench. When I get around to it I'm going to cut off a length of an Allen wrench, drill a hole in the take-down tool and solder the wrench into the tool.

[Fly]

Well I took most of you guys advice, & no misfire today.You guy's are the best.I have
no idea what makes me like this black powder stuff the way I do.I love my WW1 & WW2
rifles alot.

But keep coming back to black.Mmmmmmmmmmmmm
Fly

[DIRT Farmer]

Fly my answer on shooting black is, 'cause I am a smart adze and can.

[Boerrancher]

I am glad things worked out for you fly. As for as your addiction to the holy black, well I can't answer that other than to say for me I was about 5 years old and there was a muzzle loader shop inside Silver Dollar City. It was the first time I had ever seen a front stuffer. It was late in the summer and Dad and the Old Timer running the thing hit it off and they spent the biggest part of the afternoon shooting one of the fellas custom muzzle loaders. The first time I heard the blast and saw the smoke, I was hooked, though it would be another 5 years before I got my hands on one. What ever it is about the holy black once it is in your blood you can't shake it, so why try. Keep shooting and enjoy.

Best wishes,

Joe