45 ACP which lee mold

[Pitchnit]

New to casting and on a budget. Started reloading 45 ACP about 3 years ago and am very interested in expanding the hobby. I think I want to stay somewhat "old school by ladle dipping and pouring and at least starting with tumble lube maybe 45/45/10. I'm looking at the Lyman Big dipper pot and am close to ordering some supplies but the more I read about molds the more I confused I get. I would like to start with a Lee 2 cavity. I'm shooting 2500-3000 rounds a year. Currently shooting either Dardas or Penn 200 gr LSWC over 4.0 Gr Bullseye. Mostly shoot for the fun of it but I have started USPSA. I don't shoot bullseye mathes but accuracy is important to me.

Please help me pick a mold to get started with. Thank you-Pitchnit

[tall grass]

Pitchnit

I have the TL452-230-TC and like it just fine. I roll them around in some Johnson's Paste Wax. You shouldn't need the Tumble Lube version as the regular lube groove will tumble lube just fine. If I were you and shooting that much I would go ahead and get the 6 cavity mold and handles. Real easy to pile up the Boolits.

Jim

[knifemaker]

I have to agree with tall Grass. I have the six cavity 230 gr.TC with the single lube groove. One good casting session will give you plenty of boolits. I use this load in several 1911s and have found it accurate and very reliable on feeding. Have even used it in several IDPA matches as well as being my practice load boolit.

[MikeS]

Since you're already shooting what I'm assuming is a pointy semi-wadcutter (if it's got a single lube groove, and the nose tapers down to the flat meplat, rather than having 2 lube grooves, and a rounded off meplat than it's the H&G #68, or a clone of it), there's no reason to change what you're using. Lee makes a clone of the H&G #68 as well, it's their 452-200-SWC WITHOUT the letters TL in front of it, that's a completely different boolit. It's available either in a 2 cavity mould, or a 6 cavity mould. Which mould you gets depends on a few things. First is how many you think you'll be shooting a month? If you're getting into USPSA than you're probably going to be shooting quite a bit, so the 6 cavity mould might be the better one to start with. The tradeoffs are that with the 6 cavity mould it's got more of a learning curve than the 2 cavity, but it's a higher quality mould to start with. The 2 cavity will cost you around $20.00 and the 6 cavity will run around $50.00 once you buy a set of handles for it (the 2 cavity mould come with handles attached, the 6 cavity has detachable handles that you need to buy separately), so either mould isn't going to cost a whole bunch. If you decide to get a 2 cavity mould, make sure you checkout the post I made where I detailed how I made a 2 cavity Lee mould close in better alignment than a factory one. For either mould, checkout the many posts about "Leementing" a mould.

I would also recommend that rather than looking at the Lyman Big Dipper, you should look at Lee's 4-20 pot. The difference is that the Lee pot holds twice as much, and if you're going to be using the 6 cavity mould, you'll empty the 10lb Lyman pot very quickly! Even tho the Lee pot is designed for bottom pour use, it's setup in such a way that if you wanted to use a ladle, it's not a problem. If you get the smaller ladle only pot, and you stay with the hobby you will be replacing it with a larger pot fairly soon anyway, so might as well get the larger pot right at the start. There's nothing wrong with ladle pouring, or bottom pouring, and if you get the Lee 4-20 pot you should certainly also get a ladle (just not the Lee ladle), so you can try both methods of filling a mould. With a 6 cavity mould, if you want to use a ladle, you should probably get a Rowell #1 ladle (it's available from Rotometals, a forum sponser, or The Antimony Man, if getting it from the second vendor, you can get it with a shortened handle specifically for use with electric furnaces) as it hold more lead than the Lyman ladle, and is a bottom feeding ladle, so the dirt that floats on top of the melt isn't drawn into the mould.

[myg30]

+1 on the lee 4-20 and a 6 cav lee, much better quality fer sure.

Mike

[garym1a2]

I like these lee 6up 200swc mold a lot. I started with the 2up mold and liked it so much I upgraded it to the 6up. Also is a very accurate boolit, I like the Lee melter pot, it is a top loader dip only pot. But my Lyma dipper holds enough lead to fill all 6 plus some.


Since you're already shooting what I'm assuming is a pointy semi-wadcutter (if it's got a single lube groove, and the nose tapers down to the flat meplat, rather than having 2 lube grooves, and a rounded off meplat than it's the H&G #68, or a clone of it), there's no reason to change what you're using. Lee makes a clone of the H&G #68 as well, it's their 452-200-SWC WITHOUT the letters TL in front of it, that's a completely different boolit. It's available either in a 2 cavity mould, or a 6 cavity mould. Which mould you gets depends on a few things. First is how many you think you'll be shooting a month? If you're getting into USPSA than you're probably going to be shooting quite a bit, so the 6 cavity mould might be the better one to start with. The tradeoffs are that with the 6 cavity mould it's got more of a learning curve than the 2 cavity, but it's a higher quality mould to start with. The 2 cavity will cost you around $20.00 and the 6 cavity will run around $50.00 once you buy a set of handles for it (the 2 cavity mould come with handles attached, the 6 cavity has detachable handles that you need to buy separately), so either mould isn't going to cost a whole bunch. If you decide to get a 2 cavity mould, make sure you checkout the post I made where I detailed how I made a 2 cavity Lee mould close in better alignment than a factory one. For either mould, checkout the many posts about "Leementing" a mould.

I would also recommend that rather than looking at the Lyman Big Dipper, you should look at Lee's 4-20 pot. The difference is that the Lee pot holds twice as much, and if you're going to be using the 6 cavity mould, you'll empty the 10lb Lyman pot very quickly! Even tho the Lee pot is designed for bottom pour use, it's setup in such a way that if you wanted to use a ladle, it's not a problem. If you get the smaller ladle only pot, and you stay with the hobby you will be replacing it with a larger pot fairly soon anyway, so might as well get the larger pot right at the start. There's nothing wrong with ladle pouring, or bottom pouring, and if you get the Lee 4-20 pot you should certainly also get a ladle (just not the Lee ladle), so you can try both methods of filling a mould. With a 6 cavity mould, if you want to use a ladle, you should probably get a Rowell #1 ladle (it's available from Rotometals, a forum sponser, or The Antimony Man, if getting it from the second vendor, you can get it with a shortened handle specifically for use with electric furnaces) as it hold more lead than the Lyman ladle, and is a bottom feeding ladle, so the dirt that floats on top of the melt isn't drawn into the mould.

[MikeS]

I suppose a Lyman ladle would work, I just find that the Rowell works better for me. I keep my Lyman 'Big Dipper' pot filled with pure lead, and when casting with my Big Lube ROA 6 cavity mould I use the Rowell. If I'm casting with one of my Lee single or dual cavity R.E.A.L boolit moulds I use a Lyman ladle.

I had originally bought the Rowell for making ingots, but found it a bit small for that use, so I brought it inside to use for boolit casting, and got a Rowell #3 for making ingots, and it works great for that!


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=26.088766,-80.403774

[white eagle]

considering that a mold will last a lifetime why skimp
on it .....??
not saying you won't get that with Lee but my line of thought is
for the price of a box of ammo you can get a great custom mold
and it will be something you can pass on to others

[fredj338]

considering that a mold will last a lifetime why skimp
on it .....??
not saying you won't get that with Lee but my line of thought is
for the price of a box of ammo you can get a great custom mold
and it will be something you can pass on to others

Wow, your ammo must be pretty expensive.:shock: I agree though, if you want to cast a lot, a custom mold will outlast a Lee all day every day.

[JIMinPHX]

I have a 452-160-RF. It's a great mold if you want to be frugal with the lead in a .45. They shoot well for me. My only complaint with that one is that my fat little fingers have a hard time seating them square on top of the empty case when I load them.

I had borrowed a 452-230-TC from a friend of mine a while back. The boolits that I cast with it work well in every gun that I have tried them in. That will probably be the next mold that I buy. I would probably be happy if it were the only .45 cal mold that I ever owned. There is also a TL version of that mold available.

If you plan on doing a few thousand boolits per year, then I would recommend getting a 6-cav mold & a bottom pour pot if your budget allows. You can always dip a ladle in a bottom pour pot. You can't pour from the bottom of a regular pot.

[miestro_jerry]

I have a Lyman 4c 225 Rn Ball type mold, #452374, I size them to .451. I used to size them in an RCBS sizer, but now in a older Star Sizer. I have bought this stuff on the basis that these will be for a life time. The mold has out lived 3 of my 1911 colts.

I bought the RCBS sizer new way back when, but found a Star Sizer at an estate sale for $100. I should have bought the Star loader that was also $100, but some beat me too it.

My RCBS sizer was sold off to some one that really could use it and all of the dies for it, but my Star is one stroke and the dies can be made by some one here on this forum. You can automate the Star if you want, I still like working with my hands.

But invest in the stuff that will last you and you can give the stuff to your grand kids.The Lee pots are good, my first 10 pound is still running great bought in the middle 80s, but bought a 4-20 a while back and another 10 pounder. It is worth the money to buy a Lyman or similar thermostat. I do not use the laddle method, the bottom pour is so much faster for me.

Plus check with some of the mold makers on the forum, they make or have various other designs that you may take a liking too. I load a lot for my Marlin lever guns and use the Ranch Dog molds almost exclusively for them.

So buy like your going to live forever. I figure I have been casting for 35 years and have at least another 35 years left in me. So my stuff has only been used for 50% of their shop life and I keep adding more and more.

Good Luck and Cast On,

Jerry

[AndyC]

I'd strongly suggest a RN style for your first mold.

Just because the Lee is an alleged "clone" of the H&G #68 doesn't make it so - it was the one boolit which gave me fits in trying to get to feed through a 1911 that otherwise eats all SWCs for breakfast. Here are 200gr SWC bullets which I cast using various molds: the Lee SWC (non-TL style), original H&G #68 and the Mihec mold:

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1438/bulletsr.jpg

I eventually got the Lee to feed by ramming it so deep into the case that the shoulder was flush with the case-mouth - but that didn't suit me at all, so I traded the mold to someone who wanted it.

[41 mag fan]

Lee would be a good teeth cutting mold....after you master it run and throw it in the corner and buy one from NOE. You'll find yourself more happy and glad you stepped up in quality.

[white eagle]

Wow, your ammo must be pretty expensive.:shock: I agree though, if you want to cast a lot, a custom mold will outlast a Lee all day every day.

take your pick
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=92615/pid=43427/Product/REMINGTON-UMC-HANDGUN-AMMUNITION?utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_source=nextag&mc_id=11000&gdftrk=gdfV21820_a_7c187_a_7c747_a_7c105201725_d_1 05201626_d_20253

[ilcop22]

TL452-230-TR, providing your using it in a semi-auto. Other 45 styles I've used (Lee and Lyman) that weren't RN caused nothing but headaches in my 1911A1 and XD45.

I'm a firm believer there is only one .45 ACP weight, and that's 230 grains. Granted, I don't use my CB loads for self defense, but there's always the possibility aliens will attack while I'm on the range. ;)

[sabrecross03]

I've had continued success with the Lee TL .452-200 SWC. I have the 6-cavity and the two cavity mold. I shoot about 800-1000 rounds a month and I don't have leading issues. I'm shooting a S&W M&P 45 (4" barrel). Makes good boolits.

[fryboy]

take your pick
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=92615/pid=43427/Product/REMINGTON-UMC-HANDGUN-AMMUNITION?utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_source=nextag&mc_id=11000&gdftrk=gdfV21820_a_7c187_a_7c747_a_7c105201725_d_1 05201626_d_20253

under the details the $99 box of 45 ammo is 250 rounds ie; 5 boxes of 50 @ $20 each so i suppose any box of ammo would be the price of a custom mold if the box of ammo is big enough ( tho that 100 rounds of 357 for $63 is a lil high IMHO $32 per 50... plus a governor's cut and/or shipping )

some 45's eat anything with aplomb , and then there's stock type barrels that only like the round nose ...( yeah i have one of those ) everything else the regular lube groove TC works great in - especially for tumble lubing ! ( the bevel base is a slight pita for standard lubrasizers or pan lubing ) the lee round nose works ok but i wasnt enamored by it's honest to goodness really round blunt nose ,i havent tried the rnf 160 grainer yet , i found perfection with the lyman 452-374 , it is a worthy mold if you can find one in the swapping and selling section within your means ( and the HP version rocks as well ! ) which/what ever you decide i hope you get a great mold !

[sabrecross03]

Those would be awesome bullets if they didn't have all of those nicks :kidding:


I'd strongly suggest a RN style for your first mold.

Just because the Lee is an alleged "clone" of the H&G #68 doesn't make it so - it was the one boolit which gave me fits in trying to get to feed through a 1911 that otherwise eats all SWCs for breakfast. Here are 200gr SWC bullets which I cast using various molds: the Lee SWC (non-TL style), original H&G #68 and the Mihec mold:

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1438/bulletsr.jpg

I eventually got the Lee to feed by ramming it so deep into the case that the shoulder was flush with the case-mouth - but that didn't suit me at all, so I traded the mold to someone who wanted it.

[Sonnypie]

Idruther have (this)...
Or Idruther have (that)...

Idruther stay close to what the 45 ACP was designed for, 230g ball ammo. :Bright idea:

So my first mold was the 452-230-2R (http://www.titanreloading.com/molds/bullet-molds/45-acp-45-auto-rim-45-colt/lee-dc-mold-tl452-230-2r-)
Which came out of the box and into a drill press vice to make a HP mold out of it.
It's a 2 cavity, and makes fine bullets.

But I longed for faster production, so I got a more conventional style in a 6 cavity mold. 452-228-1R (http://www.titanreloading.com/molds/bullet-molds/45-acp-45-auto-rim-45-colt/-lee-6-cav-mold-452-228-1r-)

Now it is noteworthy that both of theses I feed with a bottom pour 20 pound Lee Production Furnace.
The two cav rolls along and drops those TL bullets fine.
But that 6 cav... That is a lead drinking monster when it begins to roll!
So if you plan to ladle along and enjoy, I think I would recommend a two or 3 cav mold.
But if you need some volume for lots of range time, I think you want bigger and faster equipment.
One day I got in a "Zone" and just rolled along with the 6 cav. In about 5-6 hours I had a huge amount of 45 ACP bullets. 28.8 pounds.
Most of a coffee container full.

So choose carefully, or you may be choosing twice. [smilie=1:

[StrawHat]

I have several Lee 2 cavity molds that I used to feed a PPC competition addiction. At that time Lee did not offer a 6 cavity anything and I needed to spend less time casting and loading and more time competing. So I got two 2 cavity molds and started casting. Eventually I added a third mold to the routine and could cast a pile of boolits in a short amount of time. I have since gotten several of the GB 6 cavity molds and am happy with them but my point is, if you do not abuse the molds, they will last a lifetime. The 2 cavity molds I have are all at least 30 years old and still cast fine. Are there better molds on the market, sure, but the Lee is an adequate product, if treated properly.

(I destroyed a couple in the learning process. But in fairness, with the ham handed techniques I was using an iron mold may not have faired well either.)

[MikeS]

I still say, if you're currently using store bought cast H&G 68's, then getting the Lee 6 cavity clone of the H&G 68 is the right one. Sure, you can buy a Mihec for $100 or so and then add handles to it, or a real H&G for $200 used, but for right around $50.00 WITH the handles (bought separately) is a deal that's hard to beat! I've cast the Lee clone, the SAECO #68 & 69 (both H&G #68 clones, one with a bevel base, the other without), and the Mihec, and they all shot the same from my 1911. The nice thing about the Lee moulds is their price. If after you buy it, you find that you don't like it, you're not out a pile of money, and you can always upgrade to a Mihec, NOE, or Accurate Mold version of the H&G 68 later if you wish. I had the Lee in a 2 cavity, then got a SAECO #68, and sold the Lee. Since that time I also got a SAECO #69 and a Mihec #68, and I like the Mihec the best, so I sold off the 2 SAECOs. If I didn't have the Mihec, I would buy a Lee 6 cavity version in a heartbeat.

The custom mould makers moulds, are hard to beat, but they also cost more than most other moulds, and for somebody that's just getting into casting it's probably more money than they should spend to find out if they're going to enjoy casting. I just bought a custom brass 4 cavity mould, and for the money that I paid for it I could buy 3 Lee 6 cavity moulds with handles for each one! I bought it because it's a design I wanted that I don't already have, and I also know that I enjoy casting, so wondering if I'm wasting money by buying it doesn't enter into the picture. If it was my first mould, there's no way I would spend that kind of money. But that's just me I guess.

[Moonie]

I gotta agree, the 200gr normal groove swc in 6 cavity is a great mold. I have a mihec 200gr HP and a lee 230 TC as well, the 200 Lee is the one I'm using the most currently.

[sabrecross03]

If you do have a problem with a Lee mold, you can send it back and get a replacement.

I had to do it once with a 9mm mold. I even requested a particular inspector and they humoured me- the mold had that inspector's name on it. Now, that is good customer service!

[Pitchnit]

I'm thinking I'm going to get the 6 cavity 452-200-SWC 1st, the handles and a Lee 4-20 pot. I also like to shoot a 230 grn so I will probably get a 452-28-1R a little later after I get up and running. I ordered a tru-temper thermometer that should be here any day. What diameters should I expect these to drop at? Do I need a .452 sizer? My barrel slugged .451-.4515. So far I have collected 50#s WW, 20# range scrap, 50 # xray shieling and 20#s of monotype Thanks again all. Regards, Pitchnit

[Keith Sacane]

I have the 230 gr TC Lee and the 200 gr SWC Lee, both traditional grooved, and they both shoot well from all of my 1911's. So far, I haven't had any feeding issues...even the the military surplus Colt 1911. That's usually my most finicky one.

[JIMinPHX]

What diameters should I expect these to drop at?

Now, there's a loaded question.

You will not know what it will actually drop at until you try it. If you want to play it safe, get a .452" sizer. You will probably need it eventually for at least one of the molds in the collection that you will eventually end up with. If you are looking to keep on a tighter budget, then wait until you get the mold, try it out & see what size it drops at. You might get lucky & find that they all drop at .4520-.4525". If that is the case, then a sizer would be a very optional item for you. If you do get that lucky, I would then recommend going out & buying a single lottery ticket while your hot streak is still alive.;)