About ready to give up.

[Boerrancher]

[smilie=b: I give up on making my Marlin 1894c shoot my Lee TL158gr SWC. with anything other than 5 grains of Unique. It would seem anything other than that load with or powder, just won't shoot. With that 5grs of unique, it will shoot less than 2 inch groups at 75 yards, bump it up or down a few tenths and It shoots all over the map. I have tried faster powders, slower powders, and it shoots any were form 5 inch groups at 75 yards, to as much as 12 inch groups.

I would love to try the Ranch Dog mold for the 357, but I don't want to mess with gas checks. I think I need a longer heavier boolit than the 158 gr. Any suggestions that any of you have who own one of these little guns have I am open to. I would like to find out what shoots well for everyone else.

Best wishes,

Joe

[longbow]

Joe:

Not sure if it applies to the .357 or not but it certainly did for my 1894 .44 mag.

There are a couple of things to look for if you haven't checked already:

- boolit/bore fit (you have probably already checked this out)
- tight spots in the bore

I was having trouble with leading and poor accuracy with a Lyman 429421 Keith boolit but the gun shot factory rounds pretty well.

Turned out I should have checked boolit and groove diameters. The Lyman mould cast at 0.429" so marginal for a nominal size barrel but since my barrel slugged out at 0.4315" groove the boolit was pretty sloppy. I should have known better!

Bigger boolits helped but it still didn't shoot as well as it should have and I still got some leading.

Then I read on the Marlin Owner's site that Marlins tend to have tight spots in the bore under dovetails. I had never heard of that before so slugged the barrel again and carefully ran a lubricated slug up and down the barrel. Sure enough I could feel tight spots so decided to hand lap.

Since it is microgroove I was a bit hesitant but figured I would just get a new barrel if I messed up because it didn't shoot well anyway.

I worked the tight spots specifically then worked the whole barrel a bit, and more at the breech end.

The results were great!

Now the gun shoots well with the H&G #503 which casts at 0.434" and my Mihec 434640 which casts at 0.433"+. Both are PB boolits and I load them right up too.

So, all that rambling was to say if you haven't checked, try slugging the barrel and feel for tight spots. If they are there that may be at least part of your problem. It certainly was for me.

Longbow

[btroj]

Be happy puts will shoot an SWC at all. Mine has done poorly with any SWC I tried in it.
I got a 359640 mould from Miha and all is well. Shoots that bugger quite well at about any speed but faster generally shoots better. It does real well Wii 13 gr of WC 820 in a mag case. Gives 1600 fps or better.

I may try your 5 gr unique load. Was that in a mag or special case?

Brad

[flounderman]

I would try some of the 158 grain round nose classics in a 357. I doubt that it is tight spots because it wouldn't shoot any charge weight if it was a barrel problem. maybe that flat nosed bullet is catching too much air resistance

[Boerrancher]

I don't get leading, and have checked for tight spots a long while ago. The bore is about as flawless as one can be made. Years ago when I was packing it all over I had an Ideal or Lyman boolit that I shot out of it. It shot those great but I don't have access to that mold any more It was a 158-160 gr mold.

I am now only using 357 cases, but back when I was shooting that other boolit, I shot it in 38 cases because I had more of those. Now it is about an even split, but out of a 38 case that Lee SWC once it leaves the barrel there is no telling where it is going to go. At 100 yards out of a 38 case it shoots 18 to 20 inch groups. If it wouldn't shoot any load I would say the barrel was worn out. Since it shoots the 5 gr Unique load really well, I don't think I have barrel problems, I think I have boolit problems. I guess I will have to try and buy various designs in small amounts and try to find something that shoots, then buy the mold.

Thank you all for your input

Joe

[longbow]

I know it is heresy but I am not a Keith SWC fan... at least for my Marlin. Some of that may come from the early bad experiences with the 429421. Not only didn't it shoot well I had the typical Marlin jams with the SWC... even when seated to crimp over the front driving band.

Having said that, I became a lucky owner of a Mihec H&G #503 brass Cramer mould so wanted to make the SWC work. I tweaked and tuned with little success so bought the Mihec 434640 brass Cramer mould and it fed and shot pretty well. Still I decided to work on the carrier a little more and low and behold after some filing to lower the cartridge as it enters the chamber, it now feeds very well with RNFP and SWC. Even better, so far the H&G #503 has shot the best of any boolit I have tried.

It seems some guns will feed the SWC and some do not, at least without some help. From what I have read the .357's are more SWC friendly than the .44's.

You may well be right in that the gun just likes a certain boolit design.

Not sure what twist the .357's have but I have he old .44 with 1:38" twist which limits boolit length. I find up to 265 gr. gives best results. Not sure if the .357's had a slow twist too.

Is yours microgroove? That may play a part too. As mentioned, mine does like fat boolits of at least 0.002" over groove diameter. Again, not sure if the .357's share that trait.

I know that's probably not much help but that's all I got.

Longbow

[beagle]

Mine shoots the 358429 in hollowpoint seated and crimped on the front driving band in a .357 case with 11.8 grains of 2400 with great accuracy and smooth feeding. Less than 2" groups at 100 yards when I have a scope on it for load testing.

I was digging around in my moulds this winter and found a RCBS 38-162-SWC that I had never tried. I cast up a batch and sized them and then added Pat Marlin's .35PB check. Loaded in a mag case and crimped in the crimp groove they feed just fine through my Marlin.

I just sent it off to my shooting partner for hollowpointing and to have the GC shank removed.

It weighs 165.9 grains sized, checked and ready to load.

I took a feral cat late this afternoon offhand with irons at about 70 yards and it did well for that purpose. Lot of these knocking around and if you find one, give it a try./beagle

[Keyston44]

I would love to try the Ranch Dog mold for the 357, but I don't want to mess with gas checks.

You can order his mold without the gas check or 3x3 if you want. It cost a little more.

Key

[canyon-ghost]

Have you thought about your seating depth? Color a bullet with a magic marker and see if it marks it anywhere. You should be able to seat it longer to maybe .005" from the rifling. According to Lyman, .020 through .005 is the best seating depth.

When anything I have shoots that wild, I do two things. Measure the depth and look at gas check molds. Gas checks, I just spread out a handfull and turn the lot face up. Pick up a bullet and press it in, then run it in the gas check seater on my 4500. It becomes just the first step to lubing a batch.

The most you can do is sizing, measuring seating depth and possibly try 2400 powder. About sizing, I've found it helpful to do it the old fashioned way. You shoot a bullet through it with 1/2 grain of powder or a reduced load. Have an old cleaning rod handy, you risk sticking a bullet! Recover a bullet and measure the biggest diameter with calipers. That tells you undeniably what it sizes to. It works better than some think.


Good Luck,
Ron

PS: I love to tinker with 'em, gives me the ultimate scientific answer (evil scientist syndrome).

[canyon-ghost]

And, to address the function- I understand that seating a bullet out farther is probably going to interfere with the follower or function of a lever action. Don't want you to think I'm just blowin' smoke.

I sympathize, really, I do. But, I wouldn't give up until I'd exhausted my options. That, and it's cold outdoors right now so, I'm long-winded. Lol.

[Boerrancher]

I have have thought about seating the boolit out farther, but I am restricted to the Max OAL. Marlin didn't leave a great deal of extra room for the round to clear the barrel when being elevated to the bolt and chamber. That is why I think I need a longer, heavier boolit, something that is still well inside the case, when it engages the riflings. I honestly think that the boolit is too short for the gun. I have noticed with other shorter/lighter boolits, the lighter/shorter it is the worse it shoots. I am starting to think that the 158gr SWC is starting to tip before it engages the riflings, thus sending it down the bore slightly cockeyed. The chamber on this rifle is a bit larger than any of my 357 wheel guns, but not much. I have a friend, I will call later and see if he will put me together a package of the RD boolits. That is all he uses in his rifles.

Best wishes,

Joe

[izzyjoe]

i've had good luck with the lee 158gr. rnfp over 4.8 of unique. that's the only boolit that i've used, i take that back i have tried the RD 190's, but i can't member the load that i used. but i do member that it hit with some authority.

[longbow]

Joe:

If you are looking for longer OAL to feed you should be able to modify the cartridge stop. I did that on my .44 to allow the longer SWC's to feed.

There is a link here:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=7750

and don't miss this:

http://marauder.homestead.com/files/marlin94.html

It is an easy job and works well.

Another thing I do is "neck" size only for the .44. My chamber is more than "...a bit larger...", mine is downright sloppy so I backed off the sizing die so it only sizes about 1/2 the case. Not sure if it helped but it can't hurt.

Maybe that's some help.

Longbow

[Bret4207]

Lee made a heavy PB semi-FN 357 mould. Not sure they still do, but I'm pretty sure I got one some time back. Might want to take a gander as see if they still list it.

[crabo]

I struggled with my Marlin 94, until I was pretty mad about it. My chamber would allow a .362 boolit to chamber. I had the barrel set back and rechambered with a new crown cut. I couldn't get it to shoot a 5-5.5 grain load of 231 that was satisfactory at 100 yards. I got some okay groups at 50. I wanted it to shoot pistol cartridge silhouette with it.

I got it to shoot 180 grain boolit with 14.5 of 4227 under 2" at 100 yards, but if it didn't have some speed, it was 4-6" groups.

With the rechamber, it is showing some real promise with what I would call target loads, with plain based boolits at 100 yards. I had mountain mods make this mold for me. 160 grains.

[Ole]

I have some of the plain base ranch dogs. I could send you some samples if you want to try them in your gun.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Never give up! you'll find something that works. But I have to say 2" from a Marlin Carbine at 75 yards is not a bad shooting load. None of them are target rifles.

I have guns that didn't perform well and I just let them sit only to find the solution years later. One day a light bulb comes on and you say "oh that will work for this" and away you go. Happens all the time.

The biggest part of this hobby/sport whatever you want to call it, is the learning component. there is so much to learn I don't know if it can even fit in one persons head! You are at the right place as far as finding the answers to questions regarding castboolits.

The more you learn here the better you are able to make a gun do what is needed and wanted on demand. Sometimes it comes easily, and sometimes you have to work at it. Sometimes you just have to live with what you've got until somethig better comes along.

There is about 80 bazillion combinations of Boolits powders and primers available to try in the quest for the holy grail of loads.

If you really want this gun to work well then you'll try other combinations until it does.

Maybe you've already found it? Maybe there is a .5" load in there somewhere.

So much for the pep-talk,,,,,

Randy

As far as your OAL issues stopping longer boolits you can move the step on the lifter back and it will swallow longer cartridges. I have found the Marlins will take about .050 longer stock than what they say they will. You should try seating a boolit out further in a dummy round and find out what the actual limit really is.

This would open up a bunch of other options. There is a 173 gr Keith style bullet that might work for you, and it seats the same depth as a 158 SWC so it would probably work.

I would also recommend chamfering your chamber mouth so these stepped boolits will feed better.

Here's a pic of the 173 gr it is from a Lyman mould I want to say 358173? I'd have to dig around to find it, it is a single cav mould and it is not easy to get a good Boolit out of. I don't have a .357 so I have only played with it a little.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_182084f2ed4f09ced4.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3778)