.475 BFR leading test

[subsonic]

I had a few minutes this afternoon and a few of Jim's (44man) boolits left, so I threw together 10rds and shot them off bags @ 50yds. This was with my UD30.

The load: 26gr 296, Fed 155, and Jim's 420gr plainbase "wiffen" with FWFL. This was in once fired Hornady brass.

When loading, I measured seating pressure and segregated cartridges based on that. I had 7 right on the money and 2 a hair tighter, plus the first one I loaded that I adjusted the seater die while making, so I didn't know what pressure it was loaded with.

First group is the round I adjusted the seater die on and too tight ones.
http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x386/Dennis_Doza/c982a2be.jpg
Next two are 2 of the seven.
http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x386/Dennis_Doza/5b991930.jpg
Last target is 5 shots with even tension. Not sure where #4 went, but I'm fairly confident it is through one of the 3 clustered there because the backer had no holes within 4 feet of my target.
http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x386/Dennis_Doza/0aa09796.jpg

There was a little (maybe an acceptable amount) leading after 10 rds. I'm not cleaning it and plan to shoot a few more soon.

I noticed my technique, especially hand position and resulting recoil "response" was not very consistent. Need to shoot more!

Also need to figger out why POI seemed to vary (need to be more consistent with my hands and see if it goes away). I think I may not be lining the dot up with the shootnsees consistently, but they were better than 5 other kinds of target I stapled up for comparison through the UD, or at least I think they were.

[odfairfaxsub]

with the acceptable leading it probably wasnt much more than some around/in forcing cone and maybe a smear in the forcing cone/barrel transition right? i find that popular

[subsonic]

It was a light gray near the muzzle on top of most of the lands.

[odfairfaxsub]

psh that never hurt anything right haha

[dubber123]

When I was shooting my .475 alot, even grip tension was the key to good groups. After about 2,000 rounds down the tube, if a group went south, it was almost always strung vertically, due to an inconsistant grip. Lots of practice helped my consistancy, but I still had to stop and think between each shot to see if the grip felt the same.

[subsonic]

I plan to shoot a few of Mellonhead's boolits next. I think each one holds 2oz of lube! They really should not lead. His are a close copy of the RCBS 400gr SWC with a shorter .375" nose for his FA.

Pic below.

The seat into the case nearly the same amount as Jim's 420s, but are lighter and have less bearing surface, so should be safe with the same load. I will also try Mellon's load, 14gr of HS6 with a std CCI. I have some that I sized in my Lee die first, but most were sized only in my lubrisizer. The lubrisized ones are about .0005" larger, but maybe not as concentric.

[subsonic]

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x386/Dennis_Doza/b8eab9d8.jpg

Toby's on the left and Jim's on the right.

[runfiverun]

thats antimonial wash not leading, just leave it alone.
i have that in almost every one of my rifles, even the ones with and without lube stars.

[Whitworth]

I have shot literally thousands of Jim's .475 420 bullets, and have never experienced leading -- lots of dead animals, great accuracy, but no leading.....:bigsmyl2:

[subsonic]

Whatever it is, if it builds up and accuracy goes away, I have a problem.

I'm going to shoot the last 10 of Jim's and then a few of Mellon's and check again.

FWIW, Jim's are starting to age soften, coming in around 18bnh and Mellon's are around 16bnh.

I think a hard boolit with more lube than the Lee, and I'll have it beat.

[44man]

When I was shooting my .475 alot, even grip tension was the key to good groups. After about 2,000 rounds down the tube, if a group went south, it was almost always strung vertically, due to an inconsistant grip. Lots of practice helped my consistancy, but I still had to stop and think between each shot to see if the grip felt the same.
That is the biggest problem with heavy recoil.
I will never tell anyone it is easy to have the barrel in the same place at boolit exit. That takes a lot of strength. Total trigger control is needed too.
I long ago reached the point I can tell where a boolit went from where the barrel recoiled to or if torque came on. Torque can get so bad a scope can turn in the rings.
Leading should not build up and the wash does no harm. All of my guns have it.

[subsonic]

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x386/Dennis_Doza/1c7b8b63.jpg

Today I tried to focus on grip and recoil control and groups looked like this. Obviously that's not it. The group on the right was fired first and the group on the left was fired second. These were at 50yds.

I shot 3 of Mellon's boolits over 26gr and 4 over 14 of HS6 and groups were about the same.

Whatever is in the barrel is building up and looks like lead. I'll go scrape it out and see what comes out. I'm also going to pull the UD and check all of the screws.

[subsonic]

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x386/Dennis_Doza/ed7e1f61.jpg

Here's a look down the tube. 20 of Jim's, 7 of Mellon's.

[subsonic]

Plan of attack is to clean it and shoot more of the keith type with all that lube.

I also tested for boolit pull today and found a little on the 10th shot. About .020" from before and after 4 shots.

[subsonic]

Well, the leading is better than it was. Guess I need to keep shooting and cleaning till it breaks in more. May just shoot a box of XTPs through it to help smooth it out.

This is what the chore boy hauled out of it.

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x386/Dennis_Doza/2a859402.jpg

It's soaking in wipeout now.

[odfairfaxsub]

mine looked like that too, did yours seem to shoot well with that much in your barrel? i couldnt tell with mine due to i was working loads up and i had some good when the smearing or such came.

[subsonic]

The last group I shot when I was at the range the last time was the best group, very small. Then yesterday the first group was bigger than the last. I think I have too much going on with the shooter and hardware to say for sure, but I have shot some pretty respectable groups with SOME fouling in it near the muzzle. But at some point, things go to pot. I have noticed that usually right before accuracy falls off, I start getting big puffs of smoke at the shot. Maybe the barrel is heating up and fying the lube? But when I feel it, it's only warm and I shoot slowly when shooting for accuracy. Took 45min to shoot 17 shots yesterday my wife tells me :razz:

[odfairfaxsub]

i think with the shooting i did yesterday and the amount of smearing and lead particulates in the barrel i cleaned mine out with a brass brush and kroil in 15 mins of up and down brushing lol. how does the wipe out do? the wipe out doesnt attack stainless does it? i shot my 45-70 and everything was great all day long until i tried 20 grs of 2400. i knew that when the gun went off i was going to have some clean up to do, greatest groups you ever seen in your life but the lead situation diteriated fast in the bore, still shooting good but im not one to clean out stuff i normally wouldnt have to. you thinking that shooting some copper will help or its a load thing.

[subsonic]

I am by far no expert, but I can only see things smothing out with more shooting. I'm in no hurry to run to firelap anything after two attempts at stainless guns taking forever.

I use the chore-boy copper kitchen scrubber wrapped around a .45 brush and scrub the lead out with that. Make sure your copper scrubber is NOT MAGNETIC! Some are...

The wipeout will get under and loosen whatever gunk is left if you let it soak and takes out copper like nothing else I've used, plus it doesn't eat the barrel like some high amonia content copper cleaners do.

I say keep at it with loads, if nothing else, the shooting will help it smooth out.

[44man]

Mine shot only lead from the get go. You have much more then would be expected. I might have a sliver or two on a patch.
Make sure you use a muzzle protector when cleaning, never, ever let the rod touch the barrel.
Looking at the groups makes me believe there are still recoil issues. The .475 is plain NASTY and can twist your wrist from the bench.
As funny as it sounds, my .500 JRH has less wrist twist.
Torque will throw boolits sideways as the boolit wants to twist the gun. Twist, like recoil, must always be the same.
Have someone watch your gun when you shoot to see if the barrel is in a different spot at recoil from shot to shot. You can put up a sheet of cardboard on the side with marks, have someone sit at the side far enough away from cylinder blast and see where the barrel is going.
The rear bag can drive you nuts too. It will make gun recoil different if tension changes. I shot this with my .475 and have yet to determine if it was the bag or uneven case tension on the boolit.
I feel it was tension.

[tek4260]

I have 2 cures for leading

Chop it off even with the ERH. Short barrels always lead less [smilie=l:

I have started tumble lubing my stout loads in Alox as well as the regular size and lube. Not pretty and professional looking but it helps.

PS Lyman Super Moly is better than most other lubes. Even kept the 400gr Lee with it's tiny lube grooves from leading in my 475.

[subsonic]

I'll try the Lyman lube. Cheaper than Gas checks or XTPs.

I almost had it chopped a couple times while it was at MR for issues.

[Frank]

I don't get any leading. This is how the barrel looks after two wet Hoppes patches. The combo shoots 1 moa if I do my part. I use LBT bullets GC and LBT Blue.

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=4387

[subsonic]

Well, if I can't get plainbases to work, I'll try the GC. But I'm being pretty stubborn about making the PB work.

[subsonic]

I think a boolit with more lube capacity will work, if it is heat treated. We will soon test that theory.

[tek4260]

The Lee's I was shooting were water dropped. Forgot to mention that. I haven't shot any of the new Mihec's because the 475 is grip frame-less while getting some new shoes.

Go ahead and chop it!

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm35/tk3945/101_2128.jpg

[subsonic]

Is that the Clements front sight? What did he charge to chop it and install that sight?

[MGySgt]

Is that the Clements front sight? What did he charge to chop it and install that sight?

+1 - I have been thinking of chopping my 475 since I bought it!

[44man]

There is no reason to "chop" a barrel. That has nothing to do with leading. Added expense not needed.

[dubber123]

There is no reason to "chop" a barrel. That has nothing to do with leading. Added expense not needed.

Unless you prefer the looks of a shorter barrel, and prefer holster carry to using a sling. Personal preference, I guess.. ;)

[MGySgt]

I like the short barrel is why I was thinking of having mine chopped.

[tek4260]

I'll have to look at the receipt, but it was shockingly cheap with most of the cost being shipping.

[44man]

Nothing against a shorter barrel, nice to carry and they look and feel good.
It would not be done to my hunting guns just to cure leading. I really like 7-1/2".
All of mine have Ultra Dots and are carried in a shoulder holster so I would never see an advantage to a short barrel. Two of mine have 10" barrels.
Other means of carry would be different, like a hip holster. They are a pain in a deer stand. [smilie=1:

[MGySgt]

I normally carry a pistol as a secondary weapon to my rifle. I currently carry a SS SBH with a 4.5 in barrel or a 629 mountain gun (4 in).

I don't shoot a pistol much over 50/60 yards at game anymore. I can hit at 100 BUT too many things can go wrong with the extra 40/50 yards. I feel comforatble at 50/60.

I do use open sights.

It works for me.

[44man]

I normally carry a pistol as a secondary weapon to my rifle. I currently carry a SS SBH with a 4.5 in barrel or a 629 mountain gun (4 in).

I don't shoot a pistol much over 50/60 yards at game anymore. I can hit at 100 BUT too many things can go wrong with the extra 40/50 yards. I feel comforatble at 50/60.

I do use open sights.

It works for me.
Very sensible! Animals are SMALL at 100 yards and I never shoot unless I have a perfect hold. I will never promote long range hunting with a revolver. It is insane and I really like 20 yards better.
Sure I shoot to 500 meters on steel but it takes a spotter, walk in shots until I know where to aim. That is never a live animal.
Then does anyone understand the loss of velocity and energy at long range? If you hit, you still lose. Even at 100 yards, a .44 loses a lot.
As you go up in caliber energy at range is better but just how many can handle a large caliber? Look at the posts asking for light loads! CRAZY, buy a .500 S&W and want 800 fps. Some turn inside out with a .44 but buy a huge gun.
More guns are on sale cheap because of recoil then any other reason.
Guys carry a 4", .500 S&W for bear protection. It is called a bear toothpick because nobody will ever hit a charging bear with the thing except by luck. Oh yeah, double action for fast follow up shots after you remove the barrel from your head and get it down again. I don't like short barrels, long range hunting with revolvers, too large a caliber for those that can't handle them and they DO need you to work at it. A barrel that goes over 45* to 90* in recoil will feed a bear! :drinks: