Sizing?

[Josh Smith]

Hello,

I've been casting for years but have a newbie question.

You see, I tend to cast round ball for muzzleloaders and use Lee tumble lube molds for my .45acp etc as I use a dry lube that just takes better to those.

Never have sized a bullet.

What is the importance of sizing? Is there a difference in cast size between a Lee tumble-lube bullet and a Lee standard bullet?

I wouldn't mind getting a sizer, as long as I don't have to use lube in it... but the initial outlay to change over from tumble lubing to lube sizing would be more than I want to spend unless it's absolutely necessary. I've used traditionally lubed bullets and compared it to the stuff I make -- I like mine much better.

Any help?

Thanks,

Josh

[BulletFactory]

You're supposed to size the boolit to .001 over bore diameter to achieve proper boolit fit, and thus reduce or eliminate leading of the bore.

I have heard that without lube, you can get leading in the die. If I want to sizem then tumble lube, I simply put a couple drops of oil in a can full of boolits, and shake them around for a minute, the oil then "lubes" the boolits for the die, I've never gotten die leading this way. After, I just wash them in hot soapy water, rinse, dry, and lube.

I dont know what you mean about cost, I pan lube, the pan was only 10 bucks and the die was 18.

[Bullwolf]

In the not sizing column I would say that not sizing is faster, easier and simpler.

There are many reasons to size as well. I will add one more here, consistency.

Run a micrometer across 100 of your cast tumble lube boolits. Are they all pretty close, or are some quite a bit larger, or smaller than others?

For example in 45acp I like to cast a Lee TL452-230-2R boolit that often drops around .454 or larger. I have to size this boolit down to .452, because I find that a .454 boolit is too large to chamber in my 45acp pistols. I started doing this with Lee Liquid Alox and an inexpensive Lee .452 push through sizer die. Maybe I am old fashioned, but I follow the Lee instructions, tumble lube the boolit once, then size it, and tumble lube again, load, and shoot.

Alternatively, one of my favorite 9mm TL boolits is the Lee TL356-124-2R. I can load and shoot it "as cast". This boolit tends to drop around .357-.358 for me, with the alloy I use. I can load this boolit just as cast, without sizing it for 9mm, and it will chamber in most of my 9mm pistols. If I size them all though, they will all be the same size consistently, and I will catch any mystery oversize (or undersized) boolits, that may have failed to chamber in my 9mm pistols. I also like to case gauge all of my loaded ammunition, to be sure that it will chamber.

I would assume (a dangerous practice) that a consistently sized batch of boolits, would be more accurate than a random mix of differently sized boolits.

A too small boolit tends to fit poorly, is prone to gas cut , and leave lead deposits. A larger boolit is often better, as long as it will still fit your gun's chamber. If the boolit is too large to fit in your chamber, then you are sort of forced to either size it, or cull it. I think you have a lot of easier options with a mold that casts a large boolit. I actually prefer a mold that casts a bit on the large side, rather than one that casts an undersized boolit

If you measured every boolit you cast, and they were always the same size, (and that size also happened to be the correct size for your gun) not too large, and not too small, I guess you wouldn't really need to size your boolits at all.

To size, or not to size? Well, that's pretty much up to you. Sometimes not sizing your cast boolits just isn't an option. Especially if your mold happens to cast a large oversize boolit that won't fit in your gun.

I have a couple of molds that will drop a boolit that I can load and shoot "as cast", and while I have done this before, I still prefer to size my tumble lube boolits. That way I know that they are all the same, correct size.

Sometimes things just fit into place perfectly, but in my experience, that doesn't really happen all that often.



- Bullwolf

[MikeS]

If you want to size, but not lube, then there's absolutely no reason not to use Lee sizers. Unlike a luberisizer, the Lee sizers fit in a regular reloading press, and have no provision for lubing (their primary flaw), so if you're not interested in lubing, go for a Lee sizer die. You can buy the Lee sizing kit (which also includes a 4oz bottle of LLA, which you don't need to use as a lube to use the sizing die) for under $20.00 I believe. I have a couple of luberisizers, but I still also have Lee sizers in most sizes I shoot. One use of the Lee sizers is for sizing boolits when they're extremely oversized. A couple of days ago I cast some 45 cal pistol boolits from a very oversized mould that cast .461 boolits, and my Star sizer didn't like them, so I sized them .452 with a Lee sizer, then use my Star just for lubing them.

[BulletFactory]

How are you lubing now?

[Josh Smith]

How are you lubing now?

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b191/WabashShootist/Guns/reloading/5df335a8copy.jpghttp://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b191/WabashShootist/Guns/reloading/220d13abcopy.jpg

Absolutely no fouling, even when loaded hot for a friend's M1928a1. Said Thompson has a Cutt's Comp on it as well, and there was no fouling of the comp.

Faster than shoving them through a lube sizer, too!

Regards,

Josh

[Boerrancher]

I pretty much size everything I shoot any more, with the exception of my TL358-158SWC out of my Marlin 1894c, and even with that to make it shoot well I have to either weigh or mic every boolit. I am thinking about getting something like the RD mold for it. Just to see how it shoots. It doesn't like light short boolits. I have to size everything for my 44WCF and 44Mag, to .429 or they will not chamber. The Lee sizer works great if you tumble lube. I have a Lyman 450 lubesizer but I don't always use it. All of my 30 cal rifle boolits are lubed with JPW, allowed to dry, run through the sizer to instal the gas check and size them. They go back into the jar for another coat of JPW and are placed on a piece of wax paper to dry. No mess, no fuss, and simple to use.

Best wishes,

Joe

[44man]

Size if needed to fit the gun only.
I run all of my boolits through Lee dies, most are lapped so they do not size the boolit at all because I hand lube and use the die to remove excess lube. My boolits fit my guns without sizing them but I do have store bought molds that are too oversize so those will be sized going through the Lee dies. Not much, just enough.

[youngda9]

I lay out a bunch of cast bullets on a coffee can lid and hit with a quick spritz of Hornady One-Shot Case Lube. Just a touch provides enough lube to size the bullets with ease. I then tumble with 45-45-10 mixture once and go shootin.

[StratsMan]

I've used traditionally lubed bullets and compared it to the stuff I make -- I like mine much better.

Josh

Josh... I think what BulletFactory was really asking is exactly what do you do now to lube?? What's your mix recipe and application technique... I'm certainly curious... that's a good looking boolit in your photo, with just a hint of red in the grooves....

[Josh Smith]

Hello,

It's a copper and graphite suspension. Only economical if you do a bunch at once, but works well for me.

First, throw your cast bullets in a pan.

Second, spray them down with Copper Coat.

Third, powder them with ground graphite.

Fourth, throw them in a rotary rock tumbler lined with paper toweling and stuffed with paper towels for about an hour. (The paper toweling both wipes the excess off and keeps the bullets from rubbing together excessively.)

I'm working on a process now to embed copper and graphite into the lead itself. So far it works -- if I do one bullet at a time to keep the others from rubbing it down to sub-caliber and if I leave it in the tumbler all night.

Regards,

Josh

[Wayne Smith]

Josh, the Lyman Moly kit embeds moly in a boolit or bullet with SS rods in a vibratory tumbler. You do a bunch at a time. I see no reason why it wouldn't work with your mix as long as it is dry and ground very fine.