.357 mag loads for rifle

[Dorado]

Hey guys, I know this has probably been beat to death but I'm having a hard time finding the right info.
So I've begun casting the Lee TL358-158SWC. I'm using WW and I've been getting some good casts out of it so I'd like to start loading. I'm planning on hunting mostly hog and some deer with these. My question comes to this. What would be a good load for this?
I've been reading my Lyman manual and decided to start with either 12gr of 2400 or 13gr of N110 and work up from there. Those are about mid-range loads. I'll be shooting these out of my Marlin 1894.

[Larry Gibson]

My experience with the TL359-158-SWC in a rifle is that max loads aren't all that accurate. Best highest velocity accuracy will be in the 1100 - 1200 fps range, not much better than with a revolver. Suggest you get a C358-158-SWC. Cast of your WWs you can use a top end load of H110/296 and get the same very good accuracy in the 1500-1600+ fps range. You can also mix your WWs with lead for even better performance through expansion. Yes the GCs add a little cost but if you use the TLs for plinking and small game at 1100 fps or so and the GC'd ones at top end of 1500+ fps you be much more pleased with the terminal results on hogs and deer.

Larry Gibson

[PacMan]

What Larry said and i will add that both of my 1894s prefer a bullet dia. of .359. I am pushing a FN 160 gr GC bullet to 1800fps using LilGun and mag primers with very good accuracy.

[Dorado]

Well, Without buying yet another mold, What would you suggest?

[PacMan]

Seeing as all guns are not created equal i would proceed with that bullet and work up your loads. You may very well get the results you are looking for. If not then you can consider buying a new mold.
If and when you buy a new mold for the 1894 i highly sugest you stick with a mold that cast at least .359 dia with a gas check. There are some good production molds out there but most will not cast over .358 which may work fine in your gun.Only testing will tell.

For hunting loads i would also look at Lil Gun in your 1894.

A good swc will work well most of the time but a true Keith style will have to long of nose so keep that in mind.

A common saying aroud here is that fit is king and i agree. And i consider fit as being .001 or more larger than bore grove dia.
Just my two cents worth for sure.

[Larry Gibson]

As dwight mentioned, go ahead a try those bullets. I suggest adding 2% tin to your WWs. It makes a better ternary alloy that way and usually will have a BHn of 14 - 17 will good malleable properties. I'd also lube them well with straight LLA (warm it up in a pan of hot water before lubing if it is too gooey) and run them through a .360 sizer. 2400 may work out ok but you might try Lil'gun as mentioned or Blue Dot. You may get useable hunting accuracy at some decent velocities doing such with the TL358-158-SWC, you never know 'til you try it.

Larry Gibson

[Dorado]

So y'all would suggest either Lil Gun or Blue dot. Do you know where I can find load data for those powders? I'd rather see what I'd be working with before I go and buy a keg.

[PacMan]

You can go to the Hodgdon site and look under pistol loads. It shows a starting load of 16 grains for the 158gr HDY XTP bullet. I have and do use more under a 160 FN bullet which takes up a little less powder space than a SWC and the XTP when seated to the crimp grove.
Brian Pearce wrote an article in Rifles Legacy of Lever Guns wher he used Fed 200 primers , 158 gr bullets and 20.0 grains of Lil Gun to get 2100fps and was within SAAMI presure limits.

I only mention this in case you are worried about using starting load date for a jacketed bullet.
AS with any printed data start low and work up.

[Larry Gibson]

My 1st choice to try would be Blue Dot and there's lots of data in the Lyman Castbullet Handbook #4 and in Lee's manual also.

Larry Gibson

[Ole]

I fired some of that bullet in my 1894C a couple weeks ago with 16 grains of H110.

I got some leading in the last 4" of the barrel, so I'm assuming the bullets were running out of lube. Since then, I have pan lubed some and will try that next.

[fishhawk]

And I stress this for safety I don't use any loads in the marlin that i cannot use in my revolver. Can you be 100% sure that no one will ever use one in the gun it shouldn't be?

[Dorado]

Dwight, I keep hearing about Lil Gun and I'd like to find out what I can about it before I go buy some. I don't suppose you have a link to that article? I'd like to see the accuracy data. Speed doesn't always mean accuracy, I've shot some very high velocity rounds that couldn't hit a closed barn from the inside.

Ole, I read somewhere that H110 is very sensitive to the amount of powder. I usually start about 10% of max and work up from there. I've been told not go go less than 3% with H110. I'm going to hold off on that on just yet. I may be going with the Lil Gun, Blue dot, or 2400.

fishhawk, I agree with you on making sure it's safe for my revolvers. I've got a pair of peacemakers chambered in .357. So, I know what you're saying. I'm trying to figure out what kind of loads I can make with them so I don't blow myself up.

[koehlerrk]

http://www.hodgdon.com

Go to the load data page, pick rifle loads and choose your info from the menus.

[357shooter]

In a slow-twist Rossi (1 in 30) 15.5 grains of H110 shot very well and didn't lead. It's a 20inch barrel. It's a least a reference point for you, I suspect your rifle has a very different twist, but don't know for sure. A 358-429 with a full load of H110 shoots better though.

[Dorado]

Hodgdon doesn't have Lil'Gun listed with rifles but I did find the listing with pistols. At 18gr, velocity was 1577 with pressures of 25,800 CUP. I believe the max pressures for my pistols are 35,000. I've contacted the manufacturer for the information. My rifle can handle more than that. Also, I've done some calculations and found that, at 1500fps a 158gr .358 bullet has a relative stopping power of roughly 60, with 50 being the minimum recommended for deer and 100 minimum for bear, elk, and moose.

[357shooter]

You can certainly get good velocity and power with a 158. The point I was making and others were making is that it might not be accurate. Give it a try and seel.

[Dorado]

I'm still waiting on the load info from Hodgdon and from Uberti. I'm not going to purchase anything until I am 100% sure that what I'm doing is "safe". But in the mean time, I'm going to ask around to a few others I know and see what they've experienced.

357Shooter, I know that velocity doesn't always translate to accuracy. But I'll find out what my guns like and what they don't and go from there. I'm still not planning on using these in my pistols but I still want to make sure that they can handle them.

[357shooter]

Checking the Hodgdon recipes, pistol and rifle recipes are the same, with the same pressures. They don't list them all for rifle, instead showing the ones their tests perform the best. Lil' Gun is one the don't list, but many handloaders swear by it in their rifles.

I use the pistol data in my rifle, and work up to the most accurate load. Never had a problem.

[PacMan]

I be one that swears by it for sure.

[Dorado]

Well, I think I'll get me some of that Lil'Gun and test that out. If all goes well I'll play around with the loads and find me a nice accurate load. And if it turns out not to be what I was wanting....At least I can say I got to go out and shoot.

[357shooter]

Dang, I just bought some 2400, this thread has me wishing I bought Lil' Gun. Back to the store...

Somehow I get down to a few powders and "standardize", to keep things siimple. It never fails, six months later there's a shelf full of different powders, and it's time to "simplify" again. :-P:-P:-P

[Junior1942]

Well, I think I'll get me some of that Lil'Gun and test that out. If all goes well I'll play around with the loads and find me a nice accurate load. And if it turns out not to be what I was wanting....At least I can say I got to go out and shoot.You're gonna get more velocity with Lil'Gun than your plain base bullet can handle. Get ready to do some barrel scrubbing.

With ww alloy and LLA and WC820/AA#9 I push that bullet to 1600 fps max in my 20" Rossi. With the gas check version and Lil'Gun I push it 1820 fps.

[357Mag]

Dorado -

Howdy !

I recommend 14.5gr WW296 + a SP Magnum primer under any Lyman cast SWC of 158 - 172gr.

Worked great in my M1894SC, and even BETTER in my S & W "N" frame .357s

With regards,
357Mag

[Dorado]

Dang, I just bought some 2400, this thread has me wishing I bought Lil' Gun. Back to the store...

Somehow I get down to a few powders and "standardize", to keep things siimple. It never fails, six months later there's a shelf full of different powders, and it's time to "simplify" again. :-P:-P:-P

I know what you mean. My supplier just ordered some 2400 thinking that I'd buy some. Then I start hearing about this Lil'Gun and now I feel bad about asking him to order the other. He's not going to be happy with me come Tuesday. lol

[Gunnut 45/454]

I run both the LEE 358-125RF and 358-158 RF molds for my Marlin in WW and can push them just as fast as Jwods. Zero leading. I use either H110 or W296 for top loads.

[nanuk]

Dorado: try both, one may offer better accuracy than the other

[PacMan]

Dorado if you would like i could send you some 160gr FN GC lubed and sized to .3595 for you to try. I know that you are looking to shoot a PB bullet but with these bullets and a stout does of Lil Gun you should be able to see what your gun is capable of. If the combination works well in your rifle you will then have somthing to judge your other loads with. I will have to cast some up but that wont take long.Let me know and all i would ask is you pay shipping cost.
Dwight

[excess650]

I know what you mean. My supplier just ordered some 2400 thinking that I'd buy some. Then I start hearing about this Lil'Gun and now I feel bad about asking him to order the other. He's not going to be happy with me come Tuesday. lol

Buy some of the 2400 and try it. Start at 12.5gr and work up.

[Dorado]

Dorado if you would like i could send you some 160gr FN GC lubed and sized to .3595 for you to try. I know that you are looking to shoot a PB bullet but with these bullets and a stout does of Lil Gun you should be able to see what your gun is capable of. If the combination works well in your rifle you will then have somthing to judge your other loads with. I will have to cast some up but that wont take long.Let me know and all i would ask is you pay shipping cost.
Dwight

I may have to take you up on that offer. But first I'd like to try out some of mine and see how they do. If they perform well I'll just keep using them, If not I'll give you a shout and we can work out a deal. Thanks for the offer regardless. It's nice to know there are still friendly people out there.
At anyrate though. My supplier is expecting the powder in Thursday. So, I'm hoping that I can get some range time in this weekend. I know he's ordering the 2400. He usually stocks Lil'Gun. If he has both I may get them. Other wise I'll get which ever he has and try that out.

[PacMan]

Just let me know.
Dwight

[mroliver77]

Just my opinion but every loader should have 2400 in his powder stash!
Jay

[Dorado]

I'm going to have to wait until Tuesday before I can pick up the powder my supplier got for me. I was unable to catch them during their hours and they're closed on Sunday and Monday. Oh well. It's too cold to go out and develop a load.

[GH1]

I use 13.5 gr AA#9 with a RNFP and standard small psitol primers. It's good for 1600 FPS out of my Marlin 1894C.
GH1

[Ben]

I use 13.5 gr AA#9 with a RNFP

What does the bullet weigh? Anyone wanting to try your load would need to know bullet weight.

[Blammer]

use blue dot and go thump something! :)

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Targets/100yd357mag.jpg

[Max Brand]

I have loaded the Lee C358-158 SWC GC's, cast weight of 165 gn avg. incl gas check, with 17 grains of Lil' Gun but have never run them through the chrony. My most accurate loads have been 15 grains of IMR 4198 with the same bullet. Your mileage may vary.

[looseprojectile]

You need to educate yourself on the .357 cartridge.
Read this.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/357_magnum_and_the_literature.htm

Paco Kelly has done much of what I have done. I started with the .357 in 1956.
In a rifle it becomes a completely different cartridge.


Life is good

[Greg]

Dorado-

listen to Junior

better yet, maybe meet Junior http://www.castbullet.com/shooting/rossi-s.htm

and his home page http://www.castbullet.com/index.htm

there is a tremendous amount of resources that have meet up here on CastBoolits