Need a mentor 45LC help

[Muskyjerk]

for a year now I have just been loading my lead bullets up and shooting... well I just got smart over the last week or so and I think I have been doing it wrong.

So I just picked up a New Model black hawk in 45lc its a 4 5/8"

I took one of my sized creations (boolit only) and placed it in the cylinder. I couldnt push it through I had to tap it with a dowel.

so I did some reading and sluged my barrel and cylinder and have came to the conclusion its pretty screwed up at least for lead.

so here is what I have

$375.00 invested BTW

Cylinders are .4500 to .4505

when slugging the barrel I ended with .4510 and .4465 however there was resistance felt when I got to the frame.

So whats next???

Send the cylinder out for reaming and fire lap the barrel. (Where to go?)

Just shoot it

use only Jacketed or plated

take the firing pin out and hang it on the wall.

I joke but your input is appreciated.

MJ

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c382/muskyjerk/Img_0441.jpg

[lbaize3]

Have you shot the pistol yet? The dimensions are very close to what is needed. If it does not shoot well then you have the problems figured out and a solution determined. You can pay a gunsmith to do the work or you can go to Brownells and get the correct reamer to fix the cylinder. If it were mine, I would also give the barrel throat an 11 degree angle. I think Ron Powers determined that to be the best throat angle for cast bullets. Fire lapping will resolve any tightness issues in the barrel. But do go slow, following the lapping instructions and checking the barrel frequently. I have numerous Blackhawks, including the 45 Colt chambering. All have shot very well with none of the above required...

[Alan]

First, shoot it. If not acceptable, take care of the cheap & easy fix first. If you have thread choke at the rear of the barrel, I would try fire lapping that first. It should also do a bit to open up the chamber throats if they are too tight.

Then re-test it. I'm betting at that point you will be happy, but if not, THEN worry about honing the chamber throats.

[Whitworth]

You've stuck it in the snow but haven't shot it yet?? What's wrong with this picture?:bigsmyl2:

[subsonic]

Buy some 335gr WLNGC boolits from Cast Performance. Load them over a full charge of WIN 296 or H110 with a FED 150 primer. (Hang on tight!) Size your cases with a steel sizer die, or neck size only if you are using a carbide die. Trim all cases to the same length, chamfer and deburr. Make sure your expander plug is smaller than the boolit by .002". You can chuck your plug in a drill and sand it down to reduce diameter. Crimp carefully so as to not destroy neck tension with excessive crimp. Shoot those for accuracy. If those don't shoot, go to plan B.

I would say fix the throats first. You can do it yourself. I used emery cloth on a split rod with a drill. Most people on here will tell you not to do it that way, but it worked for me.

I have not had any success firelapping restrictions out, but both guns were stainless. I think the restriction is not as big of a deal as having the throats a little bigger than the bore and having decent alignment between the cylinder and barrel (or slop to allow alignment).

YMMV. That's what I would do. Not really a mentor, but can offer advice worth what was payed! :-)

PS: Get an Ultra-Dot red-dot on it for evaluating accuracy, or at least a Bowen target rear sight. WAY better than the stock rear sight.

[subsonic]

Plan C. .44 mag is easier to make shoot, especially if you want to shoot lower powered stuff. Trade!

[MtGun44]

Try it out. If you have leading or inaccuracy, then we can see what you need to do.
Ideally with a .451 groove diam, you would want .452 throats and .452 or .453 boolits.
Many guns will work pretty darned well without meeting these optimum dimensions.

Don't freak out and worry too much until you shoot for a while and see what it does.

Bill

[subsonic]

Oh yeah, it all depends on what you want from it. If you are happy to drill a beer box at 7yds, just load it and shoot it.

If you want to get all you can, you may have some work ahead of you or may never be happy with it.

[x101airborne]

I would do some home gunsmithing before throwing in the towel. A split rod, 800 grit sandpaper, some electric tape and a drill will help you with your throats. A can of 320 clover compound will help your barrel constriction. A gunsmith will usually re-cut your crown for about 45.00, and some toothpaste on the trigger sear surfaces (then cock and dryfire with snap caps while watching The Wild Bunch or The Magnificent Seven) will smooth out the trigger. Hope is not lost.

[GSaltzman]

I have sent several cylinders for reaming to cylindersmith and have been very satisfied. I have also had to firelap thread restrictions out of 2 Rugers. Once completed they turned into very good shooters. Cylindersmith had very reasonable prices with a quick turnaround. For my 45 Colt Ruger the throats all measure .455 so I ordered a mold that would cast a .455 boolit. This gun dates back to 1985-86. Seems that the new ones are all undersized which to me is a better problem to have. I must say the Lipsey's .44 special and a Superblackhawk from 2003 both measure .431. Good luck.

[Markbo]

Is it new or used? If it's brand new I would shoot one or two boxes of jacketed bullets through it first. I had some bad luck with revolvers leading up the last couple so it might help avoid any issue for you later.

From your description it sounds like you have some frame choke going on. Shoot it first, clean well, measure again and see where you are at. If you still have cylinder choke you can firelap it to make sure you don't get any leading when you switch to lead boolits.

[stubshaft]

I have an identical gun to your that I bought from one of the guys at the range for $275.00. He wanted to get rid of it because he was whrowing 6"+ patterns at 25 yds. with everything he put through it. I sent the cylinder to Cylindersmith to have it reamed and hand lapped the forcing cone area with a poured lap. It will shoot the proverbial one ragged hole now with a MM 230gr T/C ahead of 10.0 AA#5.

BTW - The guy I bought it from wanted to buy it back for $375.00 and I told him NO.

[Larry Gibson]

I must be very lucky because in 40+ years of owning numerous Ruger revolvers I've yet to find one with undersize cylinder throats or the dreaded barrel restriction. But then, before shooting cast or even measuring the throats and bore, I usually break the new ones in with a couple hundred top end for cartridge loads with jacketed bullets.

I suggest buying a couple maybe 300 hundred bulk 230 - 250 gr jacketed .451/.452 bullets, load them over a worked up top end load of AA#9, 2400 or 4227 as per the Hornady Manual, 8th edition and shoot them first. Then when you slug the thraots and barrel you may find a different story.

Larry Gibson

[machinisttx]

Mine had the same problem with the throats when I bought it. I used a Sunnen honing machine to fix that, but it isn't an option for most folks.

[Muskyjerk]

ok, I guess a box of Berry's plated is going to go through it and see what she measures out at after cleaning.

really a 452 lead bullet through 450 throats aint raising as many flags as I thought. seemed like a lot of taping to get the boolit through... so much it stopped me from taking it to the range this weekend. I think it was number 5 on the sticky regarding revolver accuracy.

Gun was fired prior to my purchase, just enough to color the front of the cylinder.

I did a poor mans trigger job on it. not looking for a tack driver just didnt want to have to scrub lead out after each outing.

By the way it was lovingly placed gently in the snow for a nice seasonal WI pic,, :)

thanks guys

I looked at cylindersmiths site. probably go that route after my plated stuff.

Edit 1-31-11: changed my mind going to get reamed .4525




.

[Dale53]

I have a Ruger SS Bisley .45 Colt/.45 ACP convertible. I have mentioned, more than once, on here what occurred.

At any rate, the cylinder throats were undersize on both cylinders. The .45 Colt leaded up quickly and the .45 ACP would not even allow me to fully seat my .452" cast bullets.

After both cylinders were reamed with a Manson Reamer Kit (made for the job complete with pilots) the gun shoots like a match gun. Well under 1" at 25 yards with either cylinder with absolutely NO leading. Further, the .45 ACP allows me to seat my bullets at most any depth without chambering issues.

It is NOW a superb revolver.

Dale53

[Swindler1]

for a year now I have just been loading my lead bullets up and shooting... well I just got smart over the last week or so and I think I have been doing it wrong.

So I just picked up a New Model black hawk in 45lc its a 4 5/8"

I took one of my sized creations (boolit only) and placed it in the cylinder. I couldnt push it through I had to tap it with a dowel.

so I did some reading and sluged my barrel and cylinder and have came to the conclusion its pretty screwed up at least for lead.

so here is what I have

$375.00 invested BTW

Cylinders are .4500 to .4505

when slugging the barrel I ended with .4510 and .4465 however there was resistance felt when I got to the frame.

So whats next???

Send the cylinder out for reaming and fire lap the barrel. (Where to go?)

Just shoot it

use only Jacketed or plated

take the firing pin out and hang it on the wall.

I joke but your input is appreciated.

MJ

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c382/muskyjerk/Img_0441.jpg

Send me the grip frame so we can do away with those ugly grips and make some nice Cocobolo for it :). Send the cly along with it and I can ream that also :drinks:.

[Muskyjerk]

I think this one needs your help more:( least the cylinder is good
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c382/muskyjerk/IMG_0007-1.jpg

[Swindler1]

I think this one needs your help more:( least the cylinder is good
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c382/muskyjerk/IMG_0007-1.jpg
WOW :groner:. Your right.:smile:

[catboat]

I had my Ruger Redhawk 45 Colt throats opened up/uniformed by cylindersmith.com , and I am happy with his work (had three cylinders in to him for his work).

That being written, I just came across a thread on one of these boards (can't remember which one), but he was from Alaska and had a Ruger 45 Colt with tight throats. He ordered a 29/64" drill bit, and mounted it in a T-handle on his drill press and opened it up himself. Not a lot of money.

29/64ths is ~ .453"

I haven't done it, but it seems interesting to me. Take it for what it is worth. Try to google up that thread. I THINK he did multiple cylinders while he was at it.

Good luck.

[MtGun44]

Drills do NOT drill round holes. They drill three lobed holes.

I have to shake my head at drilling a cylinder. Wow.

Bill

[Dale53]

I was trained as a machinist - that flat gives me the willies!!:groner::groner:

Dale53

[skimmerhead]

Send me the grip frame so we can do away with those ugly grips and make some nice Cocobolo for it :). Send the cly along with it and I can ream that also :drinks:.

or maybe that pretty mora wood might look real nice

skimmerhead:bigsmyl2:

[Swindler1]

or maybe that pretty mora wood might look real nice

skimmerhead:bigsmyl2:



Mora is a very heavy and very hard wood. It has outstanding strength properties, and is particularly resistant to wear.
Being hard, tough, heavy, and strong Mora timber has many uses. Best suited for heavy construction work, jetties, bridge timber, house framing, bridge decking, heavy-duty industrial flooring, and planking. It is also particularly suitable for railroad cross-ties. ( and gun grips ;) ).

http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g331/swindler11/101_0189.jpg
http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g331/swindler11/101_0183.jpg

[Muskyjerk]

Did some off hand shooting with it with some jacketed starter loads. shot pretty good.

for the heck of it I emailed ruger:

Comment / question:

I checked my cylinders on my NM Blackhawk,they are messuring as small as .4500, is this normal? its seems way too small.

My NM vaquero allow a .451 jacketed bullet to pass right through. to me this is the correct dimension for the cylinder .4520

Thank you for your time..

Response:
.450 is right on the low edge of the .450 - .452 specification we use.All of our firearms are designed to handle all US Industry Standard Ammunition made to SAAMI Spec.
We would be willing to examine your firearm if you would like.





.

[Dale53]

Muskyjerk;
If you are going to shoot cast bullets, do yourself a favor, and have those cylinder throats opened up to .4525".

You'll be a happy camper. My Ruger SS Bisley .45 Colt/.45 ACP Convertible leaded badly with cast bullets when shooting .45 Colt and wouldn't even allow me to chamber .45 ACP if ANY of the bullet extended past the case mouth.

I borrowed a Manson Reamer Kit complete with pilots and carefully reamed both cylinders. Now, the revolver shoots EXTREMELY well (well under 1" at 25 yards and appropriately at the longer ranges). No leading whatsoever. No problem with my .45 ACP loads whatsoever. I couldn't ask for anything more.

I AM a happy camper.

FWIW
Dale53

[Muskyjerk]

I will be opening them up .4525. all ready contacted cylindersmith...

I know I could do myself but with the cost of a reamer............ $30.00 its a no brainer.

Just ordered my leather too...... 26 weeks:happy dance:

at least I should have my rig ready for hunting season (its my new backup)

MJ

[pdawg_shooter]

Welcome to Ruger World ! Buy them and rebuild them. Ruger has sent more pistol smiths kids through collage than any other.

[Muskyjerk]

cylinder back from cylinder smith.

looks great, and my 452's slide right through.

she gets her first taste of lead tomorrow

if she shoots good there maybe grips in her future.....

[Muskyjerk]

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c382/muskyjerk/425713_384477851565230_100000090551874_1477928_159 3666722_n.jpg

[DanWalker]

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c382/muskyjerk/425713_384477851565230_100000090551874_1477928_159 3666722_n.jpg

WOW!!!! I like those grips! That is one sexy pistola sir!

[Doug Bowser]

I would not use a drill. There is no way to keep it straight. You could wind up ruining a cylinder

Doug

[Dale53]

Muskyjerk;
I applaud you for "doing the right thing" - having CylinderSmith open the throats will give you a lifetime of satisfaction with cast bullets.

Dale53

[9.3X62AL]

I enjoy a story with a happy ending--and that grip set ROCKS!

I have a BisHawk x 45 Colt "built backwards" like yours. The Manson reamer and a short spin with abrasive paper got the throats to .453" to funnel into the .452" grooves. .454" boolits shoot GREAT. 700-1300 FPS.