Gotta wonder about these...

[lead-1]

I picked up some .45 Colt brass and noticed something funny about them.
First the case bodies are blown out clear to the rim so far that the rim is almost non existant and you can darn near put a propper sized .45 Colt case in the mouth of these ones. Second, when I looked inside the brass they don't have the usual bowl shape in the bottom with the flash hole, there is a groove around the flash hole giving the apperance of a 209 shotgun primer inside the brass.
They are U.S.C.Co. stamped and I know they aren't any good but I had never seen anything like these on the inside and as swelled up as they are I got to wonder what they were fired in, maybe a .500 or something.
Here are a couple cell phone pictures, not real good but you get the idea.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/96984f264a839fb40.jpg

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/96984f264a83aaeeb.jpg

[Mohillbilly]

45 Colt that may have been shot in a 45-70 chamber such as an american derringer .

[subsonic]

Hard to tell. They usually will not expand at the case head like that unless pressures are very high. I have seen 9mm fired in .40 s&w that look like a backward .357 sig. The case heads where the brass is stronger don't expand, but the front where the brass is thin will blow out to the chamber walls.

Just be glad you weren't there while whatever caused that was happening!
And think about it when buying a used gun!

[dale2242]

They look like old ballon head cases to me.
They were made before cases were made with solid heads.
I have no idea why they are expanded like that....dale

[billyb]

Was established in 1868, they were purchased in the 1920's by National Lead co. that also owned part of the Winchester cartridge co. and moved the U.S.C. production to the Winchester plant and U.S.C.ceased to be. The article I read did not state wheather thier headstamp was used after the transfer to Winchester or not. The move was done in 1927. Those rounds may have been collectable.
Bill

[lead-1]

I have read the balloon head term here but now I know what it means and I never thought to google the headstamp, thanks for the info.

[tomme boy]

Ballon heads are hollow in the rim. More powder fits in the case. So the original 45 colt rounds were more powerfull than the loads that are safe today for standard loads.

[gunfan]

The cases were too weak for full-power, modern smokeless loads. They are best placed into honored retirement.

Scott

[L Ross]

Those rims are an example of how small the rims were on original 45 Colt ammo and clearly illustrate why the 45 Colt was not suitable for use in lever action rifles. The cases have not expanded to diminish the appearance of the rim, they really were that small. Remember they were designed to only work in a single action revolver and to be extracted with an ejector rod. The fact that balloon head cases held more powder than more modern cases only becomes a factor when filled with black powder.

Duke

[canyon-ghost]

http://www.starlinebrass.com/index.php?cPath=1&osCsid=6bd93e04ad10ce4d1af6a883bbe3e788

http://www.starlinebrass.com/index.php

[lead-1]

I don't intend to load these but I think I'll run them thru the tumbler, drop them in a ziploc bag and hang them on the bench for a conversation piece.

[lead-1]

Are you all ready for a good LOL, see below.


First the case bodies are blown out clear to the rim so far that the rim is almost non existant and you can darn near put a propper sized .45 Colt case in the mouth of these ones.

The reason you could darn near put a propper sized case in the case mouth of the balloon head was because the smaller one was a .44 mag case, serious DUH moment.
I'm sure glad that I pay more attention when I'm putting rounds in the gun.

:groner:

[ReloaderFred]

As L. Ross noted, those are original dimension .45 Colt cases. The rim that you're used to seeing is a modern addition to the old original black powder round. The balloon head allowed the case to contain more BLACK POWDER, and were never intended to be fired with smokeless powders. They were also intended for a .454" diameter bullet.

There's nothing wrong with those cases, since they were manufactured to the proper specifications when they were made, but they should never be loaded with smokeless powders.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[.22-10-45]

L. Ross & ReloaderFred are spot-on..those early .45 Colt rims were almost non-existant..never intended for rifle..and from the skimpiness of those rims..re-loading wasn't a big concern.
As far as Balloon cases go..tomme boy is right about rims being hollow..those early cases were made just like a rimfire case. However, these are what is termed semi-balloon..case drawing technology had come ahead far enough to now draw a solid head..with the primer pocket punched up in center..still alot weaker than our true solid head brass of today.
If you happen across old Sharps and Remington ctgs. at gun shows..sometimes you will see an S H stamped on either side of primer..that stands for solid head..(semi-baloon) they were proud of it and wanted to advertise a stronger & safer case.
I'm not sure I would reload those old cases..if the old style primers contained fulminate of mercury, that brass could be ruined.

[Dale53]

I still have a couple of hundred .44 Special balloon head cases in use. I only load light target loads in them, of course. When Elmer Keith was a young man, balloon head cases were all that were available. The heavy "Keith" loads in .44 Specials were loaded in balloon head cases. Of course those cases are now over fifty years old and probably ought to be retired.

However, the early .45 Colt cases were even weaker than the later balloon head cases. They only had a very small rim just to maintain headspace in the Single Action Army revolver. They were extracted by the ejector rod and really didn't need a big rim since they were not used in double action revolvers nor rifles at the time.

Here is a good picture of an early case (along with a couple of later ones):

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/436px-Colt_45_LC_Cartridges.jpg

NOTE: This is NOT a balloon head case but an early one BEFORE the balloon head cases.

Dale53

[ReloaderFred]

The two cases on the left are inside primed. The crimp keeps the primer in place and there is no external primer.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[MtGun44]

fired in a Judge?