My Homemade Mold for an Ugly Paper Patch Bullet

[DoctorBill]

Been lusting after making a homemade bullet mold just for the
grins of it and to save $130 from ordering one....I'm cheap !

I ordered a 7/16 inch Ball End Mill for Aluminum from Grizzly
Industrial for $10 and obtained some Aluminum from a local metal
recycling place for $3. Cut the Al Block into three equal pieces.

My machinist friend put the Aluminum Block in his Lathe on a
four jaw chuck and drilled a 1/8 inch hole thru the block, followed
by the 7/16 inch Ball End Mill to a depth of 1.12 inch.

http://www.mynetimages.com/d3be514065.jpg

I bought some 1/8 inch Drill Rod and threaded one end enough
to allow me to make an Ejector Rod. I spring loaded it and made
it of adjustable depth. I took the Sprue Plate off of an old
double cavity LEE "Cruise Missile" mold I had.

http://www.mynetimages.com/a2c434b5ab.jpg

Made the Ejector Pin flexible with a piece of Hacksaw Blade.
I will replace the spring with a "Cone Spring" so that I can push the
Ejector Pin all the way in w/o the spring piling up like it does now.

http://www.mynetimages.com/ad6ccb06d4.jpg

I drilled and tapped the Aluminum Block for a 3/8 inch threaded rod
and added a Flange Nut so the mold wouldn't come loose when I strike
the Sprue Plate with a wood stick.
Also drilled and tapped an old wood file handle I picked up in a Garage Sale
for 50¢ to keep from burning my pinkies....

http://www.mynetimages.com/99bb1cdfb2.jpg

So here is the ugly bullet I was after making.
It is 0.438 inch diameter for paper patching to use in my H&R Reproduction
Springfield 45-70 Cavalry Model 1873 Trapdoor Black Powder Rifle.

http://www.mynetimages.com/f607c1cab6.jpg

It looks huge and ugly......haven't tried it yet.
I will PP it up to 0.457 inch diameter - as it is, it falls thru my barrel w/o touching.

I smoke the cavity and had to lap the outer end of the cavity so the bullet
would come out easier.
It sucks air - I need to figure out how to vent it.

My next project is to make a nice tapered bullet mold cutting tool to attempt making
a bullet shaped like Montana Charlie's bullet....
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=1525914&postcount=33

DoctorBill
PS - I had a Thread in this section called,

"My First Attempt at a "D-Bit" Bullet Mold"
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=143164

It was moved over to the SPECIAL PROJECTS section because of some complainers.

Just FYI, in case you are interested.

DoctorBill

[plmitch]

Very nice job done on that!

[DoctorBill]

Well...it is kind of rude and crude, but it works.

I have only a small table top drill press and my machinist friend tells me
that I probably can't make precision holes with it because the spindle would
be too loosie goosie and wobble somewhat.
It also spins too fast at the lowest speed belt position.

http://www.mynetimages.com/7945ecdb3a.jpg

I was thinking of grinding a nice ogive curve into the Ball End Mill's end
to make bullets with the "Postell" shaped nose.

Something to try, anyway. If you don't try, you never get there.

I'd love to have my friend's machinery and his knowledge of how to use it !

If the weather would just warm and dry up a bit, I could go shooting
without freezing my 69 year old gluteous maximus off...

DoctorBill

[725]

You got to let us know how it ends up shooting. I bet it's a keeper.

[Lee]

Looks like a little extra tinkering could make an HP nose out of that ejector thingie also.

As for the "air vents" Hmmmm, someone else might a have an idea on that ..... Nice job! ..... Lee:bigsmyl2:

[DoctorBill]

My machinist friend wants to make that center ejector hole larger, but
I stuck with 1/8th inch.

If I were to go larger, the ejector pin would be stronger and I could make the
pin's end cone shaped for a Hollow Point bullet.

I suppose so. Someday.....

I'll see how this works first.

Besides, them pesky round things I shoot at seem to get holes in them
without using Hollow Points.

When I shoot this and my 577-450 Martini-Henry, I can hear these big
450 grain bullets "slap" the target at 100 meters!
Going 1,000 ft second makes for a noticeable delay hitting the targets.
They sound almost like a paper punch cutting a hole ! SNAP !

Can you imagine what these things sounded like when they hit a guy
next to you in a battle line in the Civil War ? ! What nerve they had !

Maybe if I become a 45-70 'sniper', Hollow Points would be better (?).
I really don't think a 69 year old who's hands are starting to shake would
make a good sniper, however.

I'm just going from day to day thankful I can still see the rear sight !

DoctorBill

[badgeredd]

DoctorBill,

As a retired tool maker, I have to say that perhaps you are limited with your machinery but you've done a danged good job on your project. I admire a man that'll take a poke at something like your project and ends up with a decent usable tool.

On your venting,perhaps I have a suggestion. On plastic injection molds, I've made small flats on the diameter of ejector pins to allow venting. I'd think it would help on your mold. Just take a file and make a narrow flat along the the longitudinal circumference of your ejector. Maybe 2 places to start with. Keep the small and increase the size a little at a time. One should be able to get a couple thousanths deep without getting any flash . Just a thought.

Edd

[DoctorBill]

Actually, I had considered doing just that !

I actually, sometimes, get some flash at the ejector !
I cut it off with a razor blade.

I think that any slot or flat filed into the ejector would let the hot metal
go down there and then I would have a stuck bullet.

I have to heat this mold with a propane bottle torch in order to keep from
getting ribbulets (?) near the bullet top.
I also pour the metal rather hot....

Once it is hot enough to stop ribbulets forming, I then get a bit of flash
going down between the ejector rod and the hole it travels in.

Here are some with a bit of 'flash' and some "ribbulets" (if they get too bad,
I recycle them in the pot).
The Lyman 3rd ed. Cast Bullet Handbook, p 63, says that a little bit of the ribbulet
thing doesn't affect accuracy ("....for all but the most demanding applications.")
I am sure that some of you 'purists' would disagree.

http://www.mynetimages.com/7763763e12.jpg

For an old F**t using iron or Creedmoor sights at 100 meters, I could drop a Deer.
I can't drive tacks, but I'm close enough for government work !

It is very obvious why molds are split like 'normal' !

LEE sells "Blank Molds" and I am considering trying them.

I don't like imposing on my friend (the machinist), however.
I wouldn't even try centering that Ball End Mill over the split Aluminum
portions of the LEE Blank Mold myself.
If I were off just a thousandth of an inch, the bullet wouldn't fall out.

My friend has several lathes and Milling machines and works in thousandths and KNOWS what he is doing.

I simply watch in abject amazement !

DoctorBill

PS - Once I get to shoot these "Economy Soup Can" bullets, I will come back here and
let you know what they do.

[nanuk]

perhaps some scribed lines along the top of the mould under the sprue plate

make them fine, and a few of them may help, also a slightly larger hole, and fill at an angle?

I dunno

regarding working with what you got, all it takes is some time and imagination! Not everyone had a lathe in the middle 1800's....

[DoctorBill]

When you watch a good machinist working you understand what is meant by a "perfectionist".

Anyway - I was thinking of making the slightly flat side on the ejector, but only maybe
up to 2 mm from the bullet cavity.

That way, once the bullet hardens, when I push the ejector pin toward the bullet,
the flat will be exposed inside the cavity allowing air to flow into the cavity from
underneath as the bullet leaves from the other side - allowing the vacuum to
be broken, but not allowing hot metal to flow out during casting.

Think about it......

You only need the seal at the Ball End during casting - not after the metal hardens.

I am amazed what people DID make back in the 1700's and 1800's !

Rifling back then was really something !
Casting Brass Cannons that weighted several tons !
Then boring the barrel such that they didn't catch a huge 40 lb Ball going out at
- what - 1500 ft/sec ?

Amazing work. A lot of sheer guts to fire them !

DoctorBill

[longbow]

DoctorBill:

Nice work.

I make similar moulds but use 1 1/2" round bar. My ejector used to be 3/16" but I have gone to 1/4" for most moulds now.

I have made moulds as small as .30 cal (0.301") and as large as 12 ga. slugs.

Yup, you can make them HP too by extending you ejector pin through the nose form.

I make two basic styles of moulds:

- full diameter sliding nose form so weight is adjustable
- shaped cavity per bullet design using a D bit ~ these can be pointed, RN, FP or HP and the ejector of course is smaller than boolit body so is just an ejector and no adjustable boolit weight

Ideal used to sell the Ideal Cylindrical bullet mould for PP boolits many years ago.

I find that casting with hot alloy and fast pace so hot mould gives good fillout and even with single cavity mould I can cast pretty fast as there is no tapping mould handles to get stubborn boolits out of cavities. One smooth push on the ejector and the boolits drop.

I just use a heavy "handle" on the ejector pin so no spring. I find it works fine.

If you are having trouble with fillout try loosening your sprue plate a bit. I keep mine so it will almost swing on its own weight. A large sprue hole helps too as does ladle pouring.

If you are getting lead past your nose form it is too loose a fit. I size mine so they just barely slide then after a bit of use they slide fine but seal well. I never get flash around the nose form/ejector.

Let us know how these shoot.

Longbow

[DoctorBill]

Longbow - I do not understand the part about a heavy handle on the ejector pin.
What keeps it in the proper position ?

Can you show any pictures of your mold(s) and/or a diagram of the ejector and handle ?
A picture is worth a thousand words !

Also - I am ignorant of what a D Bit is....can you elucidate ?

Do you make the mold on a Milling Machine or a Lathe ? I'd guess a Lathe....

How would I enlarge the Sprue hole so that it still cuts the Sprue well ?

DoctorBill

[HollowPoint]

I call this the, "Genius Of The Common Man."

It's always nice when you have the specialized training and machinery to do this kind of stuff.

Somehow it seems even better when you don't have the machinery or the training and you
can still come up with workable solutions like this.

I love this kind of stuff. Well done Sir.

HollowPoint

[DoctorBill]

These....

http://www.mynetimages.com/343d2357f0.jpg

are going into this...

http://www.mynetimages.com/e8e9a499c2.jpg

to make nice holes in a cardboard target at 100 meters.

Thinking about it...I sure have spent a lot of time and money to make those tiny
little holes in a piece of paper !

Kinda like the time and money people spend catching a few pound fish - just to throw back....
or not.

DoctorBill

[montana_charlie]

Anyway - I was thinking of making the slightly flat side on the ejector, but only maybe
up to 2 mm from the bullet cavity.

That way, once the bullet hardens, when I push the ejector pin toward the bullet,
the flat will be exposed inside the cavity allowing air to flow into the cavity from
underneath as the bullet leaves from the other side - allowing the vacuum to
be broken, but not allowing hot metal to flow out during casting.

If providing that 'vent' doesn't seem to help ...

My PP mould has a very nicely finished interior. And, after pouring it full and cutting the sprue, I can let the bullet slide out of the mould on it's own, if I keep the mould inverted and wait.

The lead alloy shrinks more than the mould metal, so the bullet 'falls out' without opening the halves. It does come slowly, as there is some need to suck air into the cavity ... but it's not like a solid vacuum, or anything.

Perhaps the amount of pressure needed on your ejector pin is more a matter of 'rough interior surface' than 'suction'.

CM

[DoctorBill]

I think you may be correct - in that the flat surface of the cavity is not perfectly smooth.

My machinist friend told me that such is the problem of cutting the mold with
a Ball End Mill.

The End Mill throws turnings as it cuts and those turnings tend to "have at" the mold sides
as the end mill is removed. After all, it is soft Aluminum.

He told me that I need to make the cavity with a different type of tool.
I need a tool that cuts on one side only and when the tool is to be removed,
one moves it toward the center, thus preventing the turnings etc from rubbing the
cavity sides as it come out. This necessitates having a Milling Machine.

Machinist's 'technical speak.....'

I have been polishing the inside of the cavity with a cast bullet made by the mold
which I drilled and tapped, with a long screw inserted as a handle to spin it.

http://www.mynetimages.com/c8511bcfe8.jpg

I can then put 'Flitz' metal polish between the bullet and the cavity
and by spinning the bullet and working it in and out, polish the cavity sides.

http://www.mynetimages.com/757d7cde1e.jpg

That helped quite a lot and only opened the bottom end of the cavity up by
about 0.001 inch. That actually makes the bullet ever so slightly cone shaped,
which helps it come out w/o so much air suction.
The Paper Patch should take up the slight taper w/o any difficulty....

I did flatten one side of the ejector up to about 2mm from the bullet end.
Haven't had a chance to try it yet. I'm looking for a "Cone Spring" in town
for the ejector pin (collapses to minimal thickness).

All of this is because I don't have my own Milling Machine or Lathe and do not
wish to bother my friend with my problems....he was very nice to make what I
now have ! Which works - just not to perfection.

Also, I might add, this is "Phase I" - I am learning from my mistakes and now
realize that making a mold is technically challenging.

I am placing this thread here in order to, hopefully, help others to try making
their own contraptions instead of "making do" with whatever is commercially available.

Besides - I am having a BLAST doing this and experimenting with it !

What else is there to do besides watching Oprah Winfree or Dr. Phil ?

DoctorBill

BTW, M C....why not show us your mold (I know you can take nice photos!) and
tell us how you made it ? Is your mold made of Steel or Brass ?

[Rojelio]

Hello Dr. Bill, I've been following your progress with your Martini first and now with your homemade mold.
I've been doing some experimenting myself on mold making with some success.
I don't have quite the pictorial that you have, but, I've been taking a few pictures as I go along.
My mold is a split design and I made it to fit my RCBS handles.
Here's some pics of my progress.

Mold blocks:
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb280/rojelio0/imag012012.jpg

Made and fitted the sprue plate:
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb280/rojelio0/imag012512.jpg

Making a cherry in my lathe out of tool steel:
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb280/rojelio0/IMAG012912.jpg

Finished the cherry. Made it a center cutting design so I could plunge cut.
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb280/rojelio0/imag015012.jpg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb280/rojelio0/imag015112.jpg

Finished product (Well, I still have to cut the other hole):
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb280/rojelio0/imag016212.jpg

I hope you don't mind me adding to your thread. I'm open to advice and how to do things better (easier)

[DoctorBill]

Rojelio - What is the calibre and dimensions of your bullet ? How many grains ?

Is the mold of Aluminum (looks like it) ?

Absolutely beautiful !

Just on the side - what would you charge me to make such a cutting tool in 0.440 inch x 1.1 inch ?

I am serious ! (PM me)

I could buy the LEE Blank Mold for $26 and have my machinist friend make the cuts.
http://leeprecision.com/blank-for-custom-double-cavity-mold.html

It must be nice to be a machinist and able to make a Space Shuttle in your shop
out of recycling store metals.....!

Color me envious !

DoctorBill

[Longwood]

After reading about this, I played with it some.
I used a Dremel to indent the end of the ejector rod,

Click on photo to inlarge it.

[longbow]

Well, great minds think alike! Longwood's mould is very similar to mine.

I first came up with the idea about 35 years ago and thought I was pretty smart then found out Ideal beat me to it by about 100 years!

Anyway, they do work well. I will look out some photos and post. I did post phots in another few threads but had to delete some as I had too many and I think the mould photos were casualties. Anyway, I will post photos of moulds and D bit in a day or two.

Longbood's D bits look pretty much the same as mine. Not much you can make different about a D bit.

Also very nice work and photos by Rojelio! I am too lazy (and tool challenged) to make split blocks.

Longbow

[DoctorBill]

Is a "D Bit" simply a shape ground or cut to the desired configuration and
then half of it ground off ?

Any Internet links showing the process of making a "D Bit" ?

If so - could I make such a thing on a Drill Press by grinding a shape into
a tool steel rod tip, then putting it into the drill press chuck to finish off the
shape with a file and or a diamond sharpening plate while it is rotating ?

Afterward, grind away half of it lengthwise and then harden it with a torch ?

I hate this being ignorant and without tools !

Its just that tools cost an arm and a leg and I'm too old to start trying to
be a machinist....

DoctorBill

BTW yous guys - Why make the mould block and handles and sprue cutter
when you can buy a LEE Aluminum Blank Mold for $26 ($5 shipping) and then
ream the cavity yourself ?
http://leeprecision.com/blank-for-custom-double-cavity-mold.html

[Longwood]

Doc,
The dark reamer was hardened tool steel. The other one was not because I thought I may have to try to make it a smaller diameter.
The non heat treated one cut fine also.
I made so many different grooved bullets I have not gotten around to testing many of them
The short bullet was from the mold with the sprue plate. It is the first attempt before I learned about how to make the reamers.

I need to do some serious wrapping and testing the paper patch bullets that I cast with them.
I broke my right clavicle in an Ultralight aircraft "Hard Landing" on Halloween which seems to be slowly healing.
I will have to learn to shoot left handed so I am not looking forward to it. I probably should wait for me to heal but the rifle is pretty near new to me and I really want to shoot it some more. The surgeon said he would look at me again in six months to see if he has to do surgery and put in a plate.

Longbow, may be the guy thast told me about the reamers way back when.
So many Mac Hinest's, and wannabee's like you and me hear, that I am not sure.

By the way, don't be so sure your friend would be bothered making tools for you. He may actually "Dig it" a little.

[DoctorBill]

Longwood - If your shoulder is touchie, why not put a foam rubber pad over it
then a small piece of wood over the foam to distribute all the recoil over
your entire upper body.

I have Calcium deposits in the tendons of my shoulders and a simple shooting pad
helps me to even be able to shoot !

A Doctor friend told me to use a small sand bag between the stock butt and my shoulder
to distribute the recoil.

Something to consider...good luck to you !

DoctorBill

[Longwood]

Longwood - If your shoulder is touchie, why not put a foam rubber pad over it
then a small piece of wood over the foam to distribute all the recoil over
your entire upper body.

I have Calcium deposits in the tendons of my shoulders and a simple shooting pad
helps me even be able to shoot !

A friend told me to use a small sand bag between the stock butt and my shoulder.

Something to consider...good luck to you !

DoctorBill

Doctor
I did the heat treat on the black drill after I had machined it.

Thanks for the tips.

I am pretty sure I will figure out a way to shoot right handed.

Funny thing, I had just got through adding a lead weight to the stiock and had bought a nice shoulder pad to try less than a month before my miishap.

I have an adjustable steel rest that I made many years ago that can be easily modified to absorbe the recoil and last spring, I made myself a nice maintainance rack from 3/4" X 6" Mahogany that I can also modify to shoot from

The breaks are right up by my neck and it does not hurt. There is a good sized knot there and I can hear all sorts of popping when I move certain muscles or push on it.
The surgeon at the VA said he wanted to wait 3 more months to see how well it is healing,,, or not.
I have had two surgeries in the last two years and I don't really care to go through more. They did both with the probes and camera's but it still hurt like the dickens.

[Rojelio]

Rojelio - What is the calibre and dimensions of your bullet ? How many grains ?

Is the mold of Aluminum (looks like it) ?

Absolutely beautiful !

Just on the side - what would you charge me to make such a cutting tool in 0.440 inch x 1.1 inch ?

I am serious ! (PM me)

I could buy the LEE Blank Mold for $26 and have my machinist friend make the cuts.
http://leeprecision.com/blank-for-custom-double-cavity-mold.html

It must be nice to be a machinist and able to make a Space Shuttle in your shop
out of recycling store metals.....!

Color me envious !

DoctorBill
Dr. Bill, sorry it took so long to get back to you. My bullets are casting at .457 (pure lead) and I will PP them to .469 (I haven't had time to try them yet) to shoot in my Mk II martini. They weigh 490 grns.

I cut my cherry down and it now cuts .444 in a test hole. If you can use that size, I'll send it to you when I get through with it. or, I can cut another couple of thousands off each side and make it the .440 that you're wanting. That seems awfully small for PPing a 45-70 bullet.

I'm building a Martini in 45-70 and another in 33 Win. so I will be building several more molds. I can't get enough of this hobby. It will keep me busy for a while.:drinks:

[plmitch]

This is some great stuff you guys are doing here

[longbow]

I haven't got any photos looked out yet but here are some links to making D bits:

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=5251.0
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/51032200/Machining-The-Clapper-Pin-and-Hole-0827---Machining-The-Clapper
http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=1334.0

You can make them the shape of the boolit you want then cut the cavity that shape and add the ejector pin or just make a through hole reamed to size then make a nose form to fit which then also acts as an ejector and allows for adjustable weight.

Ideal's version also attached.

Longbow

[DoctorBill]

Rojelio - Thank you for your offer !

Let me explain why I wanted a bullet that small in diameter.

I am writing this as regards MY 45-70 Springfield Trapdoor Model 1873.

My H&R Springfield Trapdoor 45-70 Cavalry Model 1873 reproduction rifle
has slugged bore dimensions of 0.447 and a groove diameter of 0.461.
It is a reproduction and thus has modern metal and modern rifling.
Six grooves - six lands.

I want to make a bullet that never touches the barrel bore.
It will then be paper patched up to 0.457 - more or less.

So yes - your 0.444 would not touch the bore - close but no cigar !

My bullet (this Thread's subject) was made using a commercially available 7/16 inch
Ball End Mill (0.438 final bullet size).
I used what I could economically get my hands on - I am not rich in money.
Just ideas.....and imagination.

So I figured that a bullet (of a better shape than round nosed) of 0.440 to 0.445 inch
diameter is what I want.
It will not touch the rifling - only the paper it is patched with.

Thus, I can shoot any alloy metal I want - including Silicon Carbide or spent Uranium slugs...!
The wrapped on paper is essentially a different type of sabot !

To me, that is the function of Paper Patching a bullet - it never touches the rifling.

So, a tool of 0.440 inch diameter, more or less, with a nice ogive shape would be just right.

For some esthetic reason I am lusting after this shaped bullet....
http://www.mynetimages.com/180e732469.jpg

but I also like
http://www.mynetimages.com/9262a36af7.jpg

I have no clue as to whether or not these bullets are aerodynamically any good.

Your flat nosed bullet is also nice and I would like to try it.

How did you determine that shape ?
Did you grind it to a predetermined shape or just get there "by guess and by golly" ?

Long story short - the diameter I want is because of what I wrote
in the beginning of this post - to not touch the rifling.
Paul Matthews said this in his book - The Paper Jacket, p 23, second
paragraph.

The bullet's nose shape is up for grabs.....(?)

So...I don't know how difficult it is to make a cutting tool.

It looks like you made the bullet shape THEN made the cutting tool FROM that.
Am I correct ?

Why not make a D-Bit out of some unshaped rod - THEN - grind it to a desired shape ?
Then all you need is the starting steel rod and a grinder !
You'd only grind a nose shape free hand - the sides would be straight.
If you screw up, start over - the rod material is cheap !

Am I off in never never land ?

My machinist friend, I believe, wonders if I am not crazy when I propose my ideas.
He is probably used to doing things in some standard way and, of course, my ideas
don't follow the accepted way.
I'm playing it fast and loose and without any plans or drawings....

After all is said and done, I wonder if the bullet's nose shape matters very much in
how it works out at the range ?

How can a "Wad Cutter" bullet work well alongside a nice rounded ogive shaped bullet ?
A Wad Cutter is just a flat, truncated cylinder !

Maybe if it is cylindrical and heavy, almost anything will work !
Just spin it up and move it along at 1200 fps !

I am rambling now. Does the above make any sense ?

DoctorBill

[DoctorBill]

Longbow - Great drawing of the Ideal Adjustable Cylindrical Mold !

Now, if I could just figure out how that ejector works !

I can't understand what holds it in place for each casting, but allows you to
slide it up to eject the slug.

What a beautiful idea, however, that you can change out the center pin
to whatever nose shape you want PLUS vary the bullet's length !

What more could one ask for than that !?

It looks WAY beyond my tinker-toy ability to make.....

DoctorBill

[nanuk]

DrB

how about a spring?

[DoctorBill]

nanuk asked.... "how about a spring?"

I don't understand your question....do you mean in the Ideal Mold ?

A spring is heat sensitive and would go belly up rather quickly.
Mine is doing that now - once the heat gets to it, it stops "Springing" !

I've had to replace two of them already - a flaw in the design !

That drawing is not all that clear as to what is in there at the bottom. ...
at least to my non-engineer's eyes.

http://www.mynetimages.com/b59dc7f290.jpg

I suspect that the mold's inner pin slides and when the bullet is poured, the pin stays down,
due to gravity, until the metal solidifies - then one pushes the pin "up"....yes ?
THEN - you pull it back down - with pliers - it is hot ! ?

What is that dark area between the bottom of the mold and that round knurled
nut on the threaded rod ?

If anyone has one of these, some photos would help explain it to the average
unwashed among us.

The threading and such on the mold itself is beyond my "drill press" abilities !

As to the "D-Bits".......

After sleeping on this subject, I realized that the problems and outcomes depend on
how one does the boring step.

Lathe or Milling Machine.

Some D-Bit comments are - you have to try the mold out to see what you get.

Well, my unsurmountable problem w/o either a Lathe or Milling Machine is getting the
bit centered up and back where it was if I had to continue boring later on.

My machinist friend used a dial type thing with a small swinging arm ball-ended lever.

Took him quite a while, but he got to the center of a cavity to enlarge it.
(Previous Thread)

For me, it would have to be a "One Shot" thing !

He also used a tool with a single little adjustable sticking-out cutting tip on a
Milling Machine. I forget it's name, but that was for boring out the straight sides.

He told me there are many ways to get there from here....he knows them - I don't.

This usually becomes so daunting that I just give up.

Ignorance is expensive and very disheartening.

DoctorBill

[nanuk]

DrB, sorry about that, after reading your posts again, I see you have that covered.

I didn't realize that heat would kill a spring like that...

if the surfaces were relatively smooth, would the nose punch not be able to move on it's own by gravity?

[longbow]

You don't need a spring.

Gravity is pretty dependable. I haven't drifted away yet anyway (except occasionally from reality).

I find my nose forms drop right back down even if they are a close fit ~ they do have to be close to stay centered and I am going to say no more than 0.001" clearance. I lap mine to fit.

As for D bits, they are a "0" rake tools with no side clearances. The idea is to turn the boolit shape to just under the diameter you want by maybe a thou then cut the form in half. It can be milled, ground or filed. I have filed several .30 cal. D bits in half and they have to be to the center or a hair more or they won't cut. After turning and filing, milling, grinding or whatever, heat treat and sharpen by rubbing th eflat surface on a good stone or diamond hone. They cut aluminum and brass easily and will cut steel as well.

A simpler method is to just make a straight reamer, D bit style, and make a though hole in the mould then make a full diameter nose form which can be done using a form tool ground from a standard lathe tool bit.

I have made D bits from drill rod, old high carbon steel round bar and grade 8 head bolts. As long as there is enough carbon to heat treat hard enough to hold an edge you are good to go.

I used to use long 10 - 24 UNC screws for ejector pins but have gone to 1/4" now as it is stronger. Either way, drill and tap the nose form for the ejector pin and you are good to go. If you have bored all the way through the mould you obviously need to make a stop so the nose form doesn't drop out. The stop can be a bolt drilled to suit the ejector pin then threaded into the bottom of the mould or a plate that is screwed on to the mould, etc.

I use a nut or "handle" on the bottom of the ejector and that keeps it from dropping out when the boolit is ejected.

Too many words! I have to look out some photos or take new ones.

As for the Ideal graphic of their mould, the black inside under the nose form is just empty space ~ they are showing the boolit being ejected part way (I turn my moulds upside down to eject).

Not sure what the black is under the mould other than poor drawing ~ it should be open space.

I hope that explanation helps some.

Longbow

[303Guy]

This is a great thread! :drinks:
One problem I find with venting under the sprue is the edge feathering with too much casting pressure. You guys have given me some ideas.

[DoctorBill]

After these discussions, I now realize that I do not need the spring at all !

http://www.mynetimages.com/ad6ccb06d4.jpg

I can remove the spring AND the hack saw spring and simply have some
bracket to allow the pin to cycle in and out from gravity.

That is - have one nut on the ejector.
One to prevent it from falling out and limit it's inward motion - i.e. falling out the other end.

Have to come up with some kind of bracket metal....

http://www.mynetimages.com/9f09cfacb5.jpg

By simply inverting the mold (after cutting off the sprue), the pin can
push the bullet out (either strike it on the end or have some weight on the outer end).

Much simpler as the spring is heat sensitive....

I will put a photo here after I make the modifications. SEE Number 38 Post above.

DoctorBill

[Longwood]

DoctorBill

Doc
Look at the pins at #19.
I drilled a small diameter hole through the blank, then a little bit bigger one a little deeper that the length of the bullet I want. Then I made pins to fit both diameters of the holes before I bored the bullet cavity.
The large end is the end that is inside the bullet cavity.
After boring, I reversed the mold in the lathe and relieved the pin hole some so it had enough support to hold the pin straight but there is less aluminum touching the long pin for ease of movement when things start heating up.
They can't fall out if thread them or put a pin in like the mold in the photos has, and the end of the one with the largest end has a indentation in the big end so the bullets come out with a rounded tip.
The long bullet is one of the bullets made with one of the round molds with no sprue plate yet.
The bullets come out with a tiny flashing ring where the end of the pin and the bullet cavity meet. I machine it off with a tool (similar to the Lee shell champherer) that I made from brass but they do not seem to effect accuracy much.
I make the holes a teenie bit small then using a bullet cast from it, hone to the exact size I want.

[Longwood]

I Went back through my posts and see that goodsteel is the member that I got the idea from.
He is the guy I recommend talking to.

[DoctorBill]

Here is my revised 0.438 Paper Patch Round Nosed Bullet Mold.

http://www.mynetimages.com/61c740c041.jpg

Hacksaw Blade Bracket - Steel Knob weight drilled and tapped.

http://www.mynetimages.com/8ee9e367e5.jpg

The Screw Clamp is some 'Doo Dad' I found in my Dad's old Nut-Bolt & Screw bottles.
I drilled it to 1/8 inch and drilled and tapped the cross entry to make
a screw on clamp.

http://www.mynetimages.com/f16421dccc.jpg

No springs to degenerate with heat. All Metal.

http://www.mynetimages.com/2b247921a8.jpg

Just kind of large and unwieldy - but it should work.

It was fun making it !

DoctorBill

[longbow]

Looks good!

If you make the "head" of the ejector pin larger than the shank and drop it in from the top then add your handle, you won't need the pin retainer and bracket to keep the ejector from falling out the bottom.

That would make it all a little smaller. Should work fine the way it is though.

I lap my cavities to make sure they are smooooth and also to produce a very slight taper. My .303 boolits often drop out without any help as soon as the sprue is cut and mould inverted.

I'll try to post some photos later.

Longbow

[Longwood]

It was fun making it !

DoctorBill

Excellent! It is looking mighty fine sir.

You will NEVER cover your time making stuff like that but it sure is fun, ain't it?
Keep at it, things will get even better.

The list of thing I have made go on and on. I need to get back to the machining.

Have you noticed how simple a lead hardness tester that uses a dial indicator is?

Today, I am working on my new, home made, folding, shooting bench.Aren't you glad your dad had such foresight.
One never knows when a "Doo Dad" will come in handy.
My wife called it "Keeping too much junk that I do not need", so I got rid of her.

Where did you get the ball?
What is it made of?

[plmitch]

That Sir is a fine looking mold. I think I'll try my hand at one of these. I'm sure I'll have a question or two for you as I go at it.

[DoctorBill]

Lot of questions to answer here....

First off
Longbow - I wanted to make this mold 'the right way' with a pin just as you said.
Such a pin would not fall out and one could make it have the shape of the bullet nose.

But that mold is what you get when you have no tools other than a Drill Press
and a bench grinder.

I actually consider spending $400 on a small 7" x 10" Harbor Freight toy Lathe !

http://www.mynetimages.com/411d0aa92a.jpg
http://www.harborfreight.com/7-inch-x-10-inch-precision-mini-lathe-93212.html

With one of those UBIQUITOUS 20% off Harbor Freight Coupons that you
find in almost every magazine, it would be $400 plus shipping.

BUT....I'd use it once every two years ! I'd rather put $400 on another
Black Powder Rifle.

I did buy one of these things to attempt turning my Drill Press in to a Half-Arsed Milling
Machine !

http://www.mynetimages.com/2e23311d2b.jpg
http://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch-cross-slide-vise-32997.html

We'' see what I can do with it.....

Longwood - "One never knows when a "Doo Dad" will come in handy."

Absolutely ! I have an entire garage full of them ! Can't walk in there except
in a tiny path on either side.

My Dad got several cubic feet of floor sweepings "Nuts & Bolts" from the
Radio Company he was Chief Engineer of (Hallicrafter's Radio) for a pitance back
in the 50's.
Many factories will collect dropped 'doo-dads' from the assembly lines and sell the
accumulated items to their employees for a nominal cost, rather than spend any
money on sorting the stuff out and re-using it.

I inherited the Boxes.
OMG ! They are worth their weight in Gold ! I use them constantly. Just wish there
were Metric items in it ! All American threads.

The Ball is some STEEL "Knob" that I had in a box. Heavy. Useless. Another 'Doo Dad'
gathering dust for YEARS.... Caught my eye and now it is "My Precious".

I considered either a 1/2 Nut or a piece of heavy scrap metal, but this Ball is more
esthetically pleasing to the eye. A big scrap Ball Bearing would work - from a wrecking yard !
Wrecking Yards are God's Gift to "Doo Dad" collectors - Heaven !
Can spend hours walking thru one with a basket to hold all the items I find for my 'Doo Dad'
collection...can you take your 'Doo Dads' with you when you die ? Might need them in Hell !

plmitch - I am not the person to ask any questions of ! I know squat...

But post them here and several of these fine gentlemen can help you, I am sure !

DoctorBill

[Longwood]

I have a lot of Doo Dads also, but no metal balls.

Good idea but I would love to know if it is made from steel or possibly alluminum.

I have some steel balls but nothing that will even dent them.

I have some wood balls I found in the hobby section of Walmart that I had to buy a pack of in order to get one. I will put one on my pins in the future.

[DoctorBill]

Go into a good Hardware Store and look in the Cabinet Knob section.
Some interesting things there.

A Metal Recycling Yard has things you'd never dream of finding !
For their cost in weight in Iron or Brass or Aluminum....

Then there is the everlasting never a wasted moment Garage Sale !

I look into those boxes of scrap metal stuff that OLD GUYS usually have
and that the women avoid like the plague !

Usually "The Whole Box" for 50¢.......Treasures !

If you go to Garage Sales early in the morning, you'll find old grizzled guys in dirty old
overalls who have scraggly beards and drive old rusty pickups going
thru those boxes of old parts, tools and 'Doo Dads'....and haggling over the 50¢ prices !

In the wasteland after the Nuclear War, those guys will be ruling the world.

DoctorBill

[longbow]

DoctorBill:

I have a small beat up old Craftsman lathe. I really should re-build it as it is quite sloppy but does the job for now.

I know what you mean about tool usage. I am a hobby machinist and not a great one. I have debated buying a better lathe but am too cheap. I will eventually re-build the one I have. I may buy a small milling machine but as you say, if it isn't going to be used regularly then why bother, the money is better spent on guns, moulds, etc.

I have friends that are outstanding machinists but I am not. I get by is all.

For just the basic tools you have that is a very nice mould so don't sell yourself short, you did a good job and I am sure it will work just fine.

As for steel balls, ball bearing balls work fine. Old ball bearings are readily available and can be annealed in a BBQ or with a propane torch. Once annealed they can be drilled and tapped or whatever and polished with emery cloth.

Doo-dads ! Yes, I have a few too. There is magpie in me as well. Anything shiny or that may have some remote possibility of being used for something I haven't though of yet gets thrown onto the pile. It is a disease!

You are right, women just don't understand... but then why do they need all those shoes?

Longbow

[nanuk]

where can you find endmills that look like the third one from the right in the header from THIS (http://www.sgstool.com/products/endmills.asp) companies site?

I can't even find what they are called!

[DoctorBill]

Try this place. Request a catalog online.....

http://www.grizzly.com/search/search.aspx?q=end%20mills%20grizzly&cachebuster=2078974693871249.5

I ordered the BALL End Mill for Aluminum - that I used on the mold in this thread - for $8.95 !
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Ball-End-Mills-For-Aluminum-7-16-Dia-1-Flute/G9668

nanuk - I think what you are looking for is called a "Rotary Burr" - look here:
http://www.grizzly.com/search/search.aspx?q=burr&cachebuster=8245005665812534
and here
http://www.sgstool.com/products/burs.asp in 'Moldmaker, Tool & Die', which leads to this:
http://www.sgstool.com/catalogs/PDFsections/std_Bur_SF.pdf

Maybe THAT is what I need to make a nice shaped bullet head ! THANKS !
Just need to find one in 7/16 diameter....
Is there another name for "Tree Radius" - sounds hokey ! ?

http://www.mynetimages.com/fc408aa686.jpg

SF4 on this Chinese web site ! Just where do I buy only one of them ?
http://shtotal.en.alibaba.com/product/200095321-200003332/Rotary_Burrs_Tungsten_Carbide_Burrs.html

My machinist friend told me that Wood Milling Bits can be used for Aluminum !
Just go slowly.

Now I'm interested in D-Bits....endless fun - a whole New World !

This is more fun than a barrel of 'Doo Dads' !

DoctorBill

[Longwood]

The burrs are not made to drill with.
They jamb if you push them into a hole. They are for making injection molding molds not ones like we use.
Another good place that has practically every machine too is,

www.mscdirect.com

[DoctorBill]

Why are they shaped then ?

My machinist friend says I can use the burr if I pre-drill the hole to maybe
one or two thousandths under what you want.

I just like that Tree Radius shape !

DoctorBill

[Longwood]

Why are they shaped then ?

My machinist friend says I can use the burr if I pre-drill the hole to maybe
one or two thousandths under what you want.

I just like that Tree Radius shape !

DoctorBill

If you pick one up and look at the end, the rounded end ones don't really have a good cutting section (probably wrong word). They are designed to cut with the sides, not the ends.
I have been using the burrs for about 50 years.
If you get it to work without turning the mold and solidly mounting the burr so it will not get away from you, without screwing up the mold,,,, I will pay for your burr.
:shock:

By the way, you might consider using round stock to make the push-out molds with.
It is a lot easier to get them back into the same place in a lathe if you need to.

[nanuk]

DrB. YES, that shape is something I was thinking about.

I have seen endmills with that shape just can't find the reference now.


that burr, with a slow and steady hand, multiple plunges and cleanings could make your hole.

You would for sure have to pre drill it, perhaps with your ball endmill, then maybe another much smaller one to plunge the nose, then plunge the 'TreeRadius" burr.

tree radius refers to the gradual increase in radius, like a large full spruce tree.

when I saw your project that was the exact shape I thought of.

[Longwood]

Why are they shaped then ?

My machinist friend says I can use the burr if I pre-drill the hole to maybe
one or two thousandths under what you want.

I just like that Tree Radius shape !

DoctorBill

If you try what he said, more than likely, just when you think everything is going soooo well, the burr will cut loose with a sound like a giant, and really pixxed off rattle snake, and the inside of the cavity will instantly look like it was poorly knurled.

Been there, done that, WAAAAY too many times.

Google around, there are lots of places that will grind a endmill for you.
Lots of production machine shops will do it also. You may have to buy more than one and sell some.

[nanuk]

Longwood

do you think it would futile to try a burr like that?

I've used them for shaping but never plunging into material without a hole drilled first.

[nanuk]

just did some googling

a place that is highly recommended was PT&G.. the same one that makes chamber reamers.

probably cost you $100 but You'd get what you want

[Longwood]

Longwood

do you think it would futile to try a burr like that?

I've used them for shaping but never plunging into material without a hole drilled first.

Don't believe an old geezer.
Try one in a hole in a piece of metal. It does not need to be as deep a hole, pretty much any hole will do.
The burrs come in very handy for a lot of things so it would not be money wasted to buy and try some.
Get an air compressor and a die grinder that will spin them fast enough or you will get in even more trouble.

[Longwood]

just did some googling

a place that is highly recommended was PT&G.. the same one that makes chamber reamers.

probably cost you $100 but You'd get what you want

Look up Goodsteel here.
he is the guy that showed me photos of how he makes the 'J' drills.
he would probably make some for a lot cheaper that the end mills.

[DoctorBill]

Longwood - I tried looking up "Goodsteel" and found a lot of stuff !

Don't mean to be a butt....:veryconfu I just dislike searching for "...the guy that showed me photos...." :confused:

Some folks on these forums have hundreds of threads and posts.....which one is what you want us to see ?

DoctorBill

PS - I think we have gotten "off topic" quite a bit....probably my fault.

[nanuk]

Don't believe an old geezer....

Nah... I'll take your word for it!


that is IF you are a certified Old Geezer! Are you a member of the AAOG? :razz:

[Longwood]

Nah... I'll take your word for it!


that is IF you are a certified Old Geezer! Are you a member of the AAOG? :razz:

Don't know Nanuk.
I could be and just don't know it.
I am a "Old geezer", "Old Fard", and an "Old Provert".
I was only a Old Pervert before I learned what the net is "REALLY" for.[smilie=w:

[Red River Rick]

I don't see the point for the ejector, unless you have nothing better to do with your time.

If the cavity is machined correctly, the bullet should just slide out of the mould, once it's cooled slightly. No ejector needed.

RRR

[MBTcustom]

Dang! no wonder my ears were burning!
I dont know if I can help, but I can tell you that I tried using a burr like the one in the photo above. No good. One of the most important things when cutting any material is getting the chips and shavings out of the hole. The gummier the material, the more important it is to keep it cleared. That roughing burr has not got enough flut depth to clear the chips, even when you flood it with coolant/oil/WD-40/kerosine (ask me how I know)
The best scenario is a spiral fluted cutter made of HSS or similar material. However for the purpose of building an aluminum mold, a D style reamer, made of soft steel will work. The problem with the D style reamer is that it has a neutral to shallow cutting edge rake that does about as much smearing as it does cutting. I find that for soft material like aluminum, you need a positive rake and a sharp edge, used with lots of cutting fluid. Here is a picture of one of mine:
http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l481/goodsteel/IMG_0524.jpg
It was made by cutting a cylinder on the lathe the size of the finished cavity, then blending the profile with a file until I saw the boolit design I was after.
Then I mounted it in the milling machine and cut a radiused groove in it to create a single flute. Back to the lathe and used a file to relieve all but the very cutting edge. I then mounted the blocks in the milling machine vice and plunged the cavities to a stop with lots and lots of cutting oil, retracting the tool often to aid in chip removal.
I would think that anybody could do this with a drill press, if you used a chainsaw file to cut multiple flutes so that the thing would track and create a round hole.
Another tip, (at least it worked for me) with a mold made of aluminum, you need the cavities to be about .002 larger than the finished boolit. As it happens, all of my cutters cut .002 oversize, so it was a snap! I just made the cutters the size that I wanted the finished boolits to be.
Here's a few pictures of my molds that I have tried:
http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l481/goodsteel/IMG_0517.jpg
http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l481/goodsteel/IMG_0378.jpg
http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l481/goodsteel/IMG_0479.jpg
Incidentally, the last one is a 50 cal muzzle loading boolit that I built paper patch cartridges for. http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l481/goodsteel/IMG_0480.jpg
Everybody said it wouldn't work because it didn't have a long enough bearing area, but it ended up being one of the most successful. It too, was cut with a single flute cutter like the one in the first picture.
Hope this helps!

[Longwood]

[QUOTE=goodsteel;1579073]Dang! no wonder my ears were burning!
I dont know if I can help, but I can tell you that I tried using a burr like the one in the photo above. No good.

Hope this helps!
[QUOTE]


Thanks for coming by Goodsteel.
Also thanks for the lengthy explanation.

[longbow]

Have you tried that Rick?

I won't disagree that if everything is right and there is a very slight taper to the cavity the boolit should drop out.

Most of mine do with very little help but occasionally they do not. What then?

It is not hard to make an ejector pin and these bored/reamed solid moulds are heaps faster to make that split moulds so the little extra work is not really an issue, and if the boolit drops out without help then no extra work casting either.

Another use for the ejector pin is to make HP boolits.

These moulds aren't likely to replace split mould but they do have their uses.

Longbow

[Buckshot]

...............DoctorBill, I've somewhat rapidly read through this thread. You're doing some of the stuff I did years back. My first 'Lathe' was a 3/8" VSR drill motor clamped in a bench vise. My lathe tools were files and a Dremel to mangle whatever I had spinning into a shape theat looked as close ot what I wanted as possible. I kind of sat up when you mentioned getting one of the 7" lathes, and decided not to.

If I may, do a web serch simply typing in 7" lathe. ANY lathe is MILES ahead of no lathe, and as you'll find, the small 7" machines are capable of real work. Maybe you know but buying the basic lathe is kind of like buying a horse. The real expense comes after that! But thank heavens you don't have to buy it all at once, and most new lathe owners spend considerable time making their own tools to use with/on the lathe. After purchasing the basic lathe you'll eventually NEED a 4 jaw chuck, a milling attachment, a steady, a QC toolpost and more tool holders. I've heard it said that lathe manufacturers should just give anyone wanting a lathe one, as they'll make their profit in additional tooling! That's naturally simplistic but the example is valid.

With one of those 7" machines you'll be able to make your own boolit size dies, moulds, casemouth expanders, nose punches, bump (boolit expanding) dies, pres mounted swage dies, and any number of other needfull doo-dads. By simply being able to spin the workpiece in a chuck or on a faceplate, and having X, Y, and Z axes feeds for the tools, most anything within the capacity of the machine is possible.

Maybe I can post some photo's in addition to those from others that might be helpfull, and maybe ignite a burning desire to aquire one of those ubiquitous 7" lathes instead of a $400 muzzle loader.

http://www.fototime.com/B55E2CC4F2DF8E0/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/11609D54AA9989C/standard.jpg

LEFT: These are the "D" reamers previously mentioned, AKA "Half drills" and "Half Round drills". They're ferociously expensive, but by watching E-Bay you can pick up useable sizes at great savings now and then. These are 23/64 (.3594) and MSC lists them USA made @ $32.47 per each. On E-Bay the seller had 3 pkgs of 6, made by PTD for $23/pkg. I bought all 3 for $60, a $9 discount and free shipping. RIGHT: A kind of "D" bit, but in this case a 1/4" drill blank ground into a single edge form tool.

http://www.fototime.com/5F9B1C52B08A8C1/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/A0D59ED4A51A13D/standard.jpg

LEFT:I make custom lube-size dies and Lee type push through dies. When shipping a die I supply a 'Proof Slug' from the die to prove it sizes the size asked for. I was needing some larger OD slugs (NOT bullets) for proofing. RIGHT: This was done in the milling machine, but there is no reason the work couldn't have spun on a face plate or chuck with the tool in a toolholder on the lathe's compound. The mould blocks are simply .750" x 1.5" extruded 6061 aluminum cut and paired without venting.

http://www.fototime.com/EC6E32186093ED1/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/4E82C710D2AEAC9/standard.jpg

LEFT: For spinning the work in the lathe one way is the faceplate. In this case the mould was setup in a toolmaker's vise as the cavities had no dimensions in any relation to the outside of the blocks, so the blocks were shimmed and indicated in the vise, and then the whole shebang was bolted to the faceplate. Another way to create/bore a mould on the faceplate is to clamp the blocks between a pair of precision ground (inexpensive) angle plates. RIGHT: Another way to make a mould on the lathe is via the 4 jaw chuck. Not 'making this mould in the photo but indicateing a cavity to be hollowpointed, but you can bore the cavity just as simply.

http://www.fototime.com/2730F23D652AB9A/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/129DCEECEED65CD/standard.jpg

LEFT: So let's pretend we're going to make a mould with the lathe in a 4 jaw (I don't have any photo's of that). You can hold squre stuff in a 4 jaw. In this case I'm making a swage die. Your mould blocks have been cut & paired. Alignment pins in place and indicated in the chuck, (or on a faceplate) and in the photo you've been step drilling. RIGHT: Now you're going to form the cavity. You've ground yourself a 'Form' tool.

http://www.fototime.com/FBC4A50229228CB/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/CFC43FFAA50298D/standard.jpg

LEFT: a Ho-Made kind of "D" reamer, form tool, or 'Spoon'. A single edge cutting, or realisticly a scraping tool. RIGHT: You've step drilled close to size and the form tool only makes light cuts of a couple thousandths each time. You have to go slow forming the ogive. Since you're doing that you're NOT creating chips, but instead a metallic kind of mud!

[Buckshot]

http://www.fototime.com/822F5471FA0DC35/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/CCDA0D7A0730388/standard.jpg

LEFT: Drawing of the form tool ground from a drill blank. RIGHT: You can also create tools from rectangular HSS blanks. For larger bores they're easier to grind but are more susceptable to chatter due to their relative thinness, so you have to watch the 'Stickout' and go easy. They're pretty reasonably priced.

http://www.fototime.com/6DD15BDBE5D31B1/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/826B799366DFB7B/standard.jpg

LEFT: So here's the result from the mould we made (actually swaged) but the result would have the same shape. RIGHT: All dresssed up and ready to go uptown :-)

http://www.fototime.com/91D20446FEDC880/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/88ECA5746288ED8/standard.jpg

LEFT: This is a Bump die. Just used to slightly reform a cast boolit to a slightly larger OD, and used in a regular reloading press. Totally made in the lathe. RIGHT: The ejector rod is manual. The shoulder on the base of the ejector rod rides a bore in the die body. It's upward movement is stopped by the base of the nut that's threaded into the top of the die body. Besides bumping you may also form a HP by screwing the stop nut down deeper into the die body. To eject the slug you simply thump the rod with a suitable tool, like a rawhide or plastic thumper :-) You can make all this junk, and more on a 7" lathe. Cut threads, bore, turn, form, etc & etc. Just think how much LESS TV you'll be watching ................ and that's a GOOD thing!

..................Buckshot

[DoctorBill]

Buckshot - OMG - you do some fantastic work !

I am so envious of you having all that nice equipment
and knowledge of how to use it !

Much of your tools and products shown have that Golden Color.

Is that a "Nitride" coating on them ?

I am going to call a local Machine Tool Store to see if they have 7/16" Drill Blanks.
They told me a while back (when I bought a 1/8" Drill Rod) that they
don't carry much rods anymore - no call for them. Hmmmm.

No got's...This town I live in (Spokane, WA) is like living in some Ghost Town or in a cavern.
No one has squat ! You'd think I live in Uzbekistan's Mountains....

I'll have to mail order some rod from ENCO. Typical for Spokane.

Thought I'd have a go at making a D-Bit or cutting tool with my 6" bench grinder.
I want to make a D-Bit for a 0.438" bullet with a nice nose shape -
sort of "Tree Radius".

Scary....I'm 69 and can't see well w/o glasses and starting to have shaky hands.

Getting old like this really pisses me off !

DoctorBill

[Red River Rick]

Have you tried that Rick?

I won't disagree that if everything is right and there is a very slight taper to the cavity the boolit should drop out.

Most of mine do with very little help but occasionally they do not. What then?

It is not hard to make an ejector pin and these bored/reamed solid moulds are heaps faster to make that split moulds so the little extra work is not really an issue, and if the boolit drops out without help then no extra work casting either.

Another use for the ejector pin is to make HP boolits.

These moulds aren't likely to replace split mould but they do have their uses.

Longbow


Longbow:

I have, and they work very well. The shrinkage factor for pure Pb is approximately 1%, so a 0.500" diameter boolit would shrink almost 0.005" thou. That is more than enough for the boolit to drop from the cavity.

Interior finish and shape is definately a major factor. If they don't fall out of the mould, a simple tap is usually all it takes to release the boolit.

RRR

[DoctorBill]

RRR - What is the shrinkage factor for wheel weight metal ?

My bullets tend to fall out also, if I flame the cavity with carbon.
As the carbon wears off, they don't come out so easily.

I cannot reflame the cavity very well once the mold is hot
and I don't like letting it cool off, since the bullets form so well
when the mold is good and hot.

The bullets form a pretty good vacuum in the cavity.
You can feel it if you grasp the slug to pull it out (with long forceps).

Perhaps my next mold will be as perfect as yours.....who knows ?

DoctorBill

[longbow]

Now that Buckshot has displayed his beautiful work I will be embarrassed to show you mine. However, once I get the photos found I will post them.

I was planning to look last night but wound up doing furnace repairs.

I think by now the D bit is pretty well demonstrated. Again Buckshot has done a better job than I could of showing the details.

Most of my moulds are bored straight or sometimes stepped for two diameter and either way with a full diameter sliding nose form. I use a D "reamer" for the cavity (straight or stepped) and a form tool for the nose (as Buckshot shows). That makes for ejector and nose form which allows different nose profiles simply by replacing the nose form and also adjustable weight by adjusting the depth of the nose form.

While the boolits may (and should) drop freely from the cavity, I am a belt and suspenders kind of guy. I will add the ejector in one form or another just in case. I have on occasion had stickers especially if I get things too hot.

Longbow

[Buckshot]

................DoctorBill, thank you for the compliment. I appreciate it but the tools I have are NOT exceptional by any means. I've never seen Red River Rick's machines but I have seen the stuff he's made, so I have an idea. My lathe is a '81 vintage 11" Logan, with the little quirks and issues a 30 some plus year old machine will have. By an unexpected occurance I was able to buy a new Chinese made 9x42 Bridgeport clone turret mill. I've never taken a machining class in my entire 'Put together'.

Everything I've learned has been from reading, doing, and asking questions, and that's pretty much been over the past 6 years. There is a LOT of simple common sense involved. I haven't made a mistake yet, but I HAVE created a lot of parts for stuff that hasn't been invented yet :-). Even mistakes are learning processes, like you will not have success getting UNDER a hard chromed surface with HSS :-). That is unless you're trying to turn the HSS tool blue and make it squeal. Also, when you have the QC box levers in the wrong position you'll know why they NEVER use a bolt threaded 1/4 - 10 :shock:

The only thing I showed doing that couldn't have been done on a 7" lathe is that bump die, as the 7" machines don't have a large enough hole through the spindle. However a shorter one could have been held in the smaller lathe's chuck.

Kinda funny, speaking of lathes and not knowing anything is my cousin's husband. He owns his own company that does field repair work on construction equipment and such stuff. I've done a few machining jobs for him. One day he called and said he'd bought a used lathe. I was excited and asked what make it was. He didn't know, and I'm thinking engine lathes so start naming off South Bend, Logan, Sheldon, & etc, and he keeps saying no, no, no. Then after a bit he says it's a Logan. Yeah, sounds like Logan he says and he adds it's about as tall as he is! Well I said it ain't no Logan then.

About a week later I was up in his neck of the woods so swung by his place. No one answered the front door so I drove out back. He'd said it was tarped and sitting on his 3 axle flatbed. As soon as I saw it I KNEW it wasn't a Logan, or a Southbend, or ANYTHING a home shop guy would have in his garage. American Pacemaker maybe?? I peeled up the side of the tarp and here's this monstrous old Gisholt turret lathe [smilie=w: It had an electric motor about as big around as a 35 gallon drum and maybe 5 belts running up to the headstock spindle.

On the foor of the trailer, under and all around this honker are 5 gallon buckets full of jaws and bolts, bits, clamping stuff and pieces of turret tooling. Plus several BIG chucks and faceplates about the size of manhole covers. I don't know what it was doing before he got it, but I knew what it did shortly after it had been born! On the side of the headstock was a rivited on plate stating it was the property of the United States Navy Brisbane, CA ordnance facility and dated 1943, plus as added info it stated it was "War Finished":veryconfu Due to the war effort and the need for manufacturing, companies making machines like this were in a 'Hurry Up' situation. They were very concerned about and proud of their machines. They wanted to make sure people knew that these didn't have the same amount of care and finish (appearance) as normal, so several companies marked them as such. Anyway I thought it was funny.

..................Buckshot

[MBTcustom]

Well Buckshot is right, you dont need specialized tooling to do what you need to do. You just need to be able to get something spinning, and most machines, even the ratted out ones, are accurate enough for most operations. The knowledge of how to use those machines....is another matter! I had forgotten about the vice on the face-plate trick and I'm glad I saw it here, that will be just the thing for modifying a mold in the lathe. (by the way, to me "1980's vintage" is practically new!)
Buckshot, I enjoyed you story there at the end. My lathe is about 8' long with a 17" swing and it was cut out of the side of a battle-ship. Seriously, they had to cut a hole through the side of the ship connecting to one of the sub-levels above the waterline and slid my lathe and several other pieces of equipment out of the side of the ship! My lathe is 1950's vintage. It is amazing the quality that the old machines have. The older they are, the better they used to be. I was lucky enough to be able get this one as it's been gently used over its long life. I had lots of help to get it into the garage and wired up.
http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l481/goodsteel/IMG_0582.jpg
I'm working out of a single car garage so things are a little cramped but its worth it!
This machine is a real pleasure to work with. All of the levers can be engaged with fingertip pressure and they are arranged in a way that makes it easy to manipulate them, and with a 17" faceplate there isn't much I can't swing.:bigsmyl2:
I am hoping to be able to get a milling machine as soon as we do the taxes. All of the milling operations I have done so far, have been done on borrowed equipment from work, so its been a hurry hurry rush rush job every time. If I can get a mill in the garage, then I can settle down and do some real work.
By the way, did you end up sliding that sweet turret lathe into the shop or what?

[montana_charlie]

I've never seen Red River Rick's machines but I have seen the stuff he's made, so I have an idea.
I'm pretty sure I have an understanding of Rick's setup.

He has this big cable that runs from his shop to his house. On the end of that cable is attached an extra-fancy football helmet.

I send him an email with a description ... or a drawing ... of a new item, and he reads the email while wearing the helmet.

Thirty minutes later, Rick walks out to the shop to find the CNC tooling (Concentrate-N-Create) has made exactly what was in the email.

CM

[DoctorBill]

You guys and my machinist friend are driving me crazy !

All I wanted to do is make a couple of bullet molds !

So all you guys show me those beautiful molds you are making on your Lathes.....
my friend thinks I should buy a lathe....it would be good for me !

Now I have the obsessive hots to buy a small lathe for $400....with a 20% off coupon...
http://www.harborfreight.com/7-inch-x-10-inch-precision-mini-lathe-93212.html

But wait !

For $1,000 dollars, I can buy a MUCH MUCH better lathe !
http://www.grizzly.com/products/9-x-19-Bench-Lathe/G4000
Just pay the extra shipping and handling....

I am going bonkers....I have a tooth that broke and I need a cap...

But - now I am comparing paying $1,500 for a tooth cap versus buying
a LATHE (!!!) for $1,000 !

Which one should I do ? !

I am seriously considering going around looking like some toothless Hill Billy
http://www.mynetimages.com/f6ef1fd261.jpg
so that I can have a Lathe that I really don't need...or do I ?

If I was a politician, I'd go and buy one immediately - with your money !

All because I wanted to make a couple bullet molds......God Help Me !

DoctorBill !

[Buckshot]

............Bill, in all seriousness look at what you're going to be doing. Sure it's nice to have a big lathe (and big is subjective). For the stuff you're wanting to make the 7" machine would be just fine. Heck, you could set my 11" Logan on the bed of Goodsteel's lathe and STILL have some room! There's ALWAYS a bigger and better one out there to lust after.

I'll make you a promise. You get yourself a 7" lathe and a reprint of South Bend's book, "How to Run a Lathe" which is very inexpensive and a wealth of info, and I'll scrape together a care package of odds and ends for ya, and send it your way!

Goodsteel, so far as I know that Gisholt is still sitting on his trailer. He has a small forklift on his property, but no way would it do the job. I'd hesitate to even guess what that turret lathe weighs. Does your LeBlond have the replaceable hardened steel sideways?

................Buckshot

[MBTcustom]

Does your LeBlond have the replaceable hardened steel sideways?
Yes. Of course, "replaceable" might not be the best word to describe them. Removable is more like it, but I would never do that. I need to get a live center for this puppy. I've been working around it but its becoming more and more indispensable.
I am going to spring for a mill with the tax return money. I just have to find one that will do for my purposes for a price I can afford. I'm hoping I can find something in the 2k$ range.

Just think how much LESS TV you'll be watching ................ and that's a GOOD thing!
This is funny, I dont have TV hooked up in my house. I haven't for the last six years since I got married. Just agreed with the wife that its a waste of time and money any way you slice it. Well, the guys at work kept saying that I need to watch these shows, "Top shot" and "sons of guns" and "ultimate marksmen" blah blah blah. They said I would realy enjoy those shows. I told them: "Fellas, fellas, You know I dont have time for all those shows. I'm too busy doing it for real!":drinks:
Seriously, the average person probably watches at least an hour of TV every night. over the course of a week thats 7 hours.
How many rounds can you reload in seven hours?
How many boolits can you cast in seven hours?
If I had a mill at the house I could almost remake my rockchucker press in that amount of time. All of the molds that I posted above, had time restrictions on them because I was using the mill at work to build them. I made each one, and all the parts and the cutter in one hour. So if I had a mill at the house, I could have five new molds to try every weekend..... kind of makes you think.

Getting back to the original thread (sorry to hijack) I want to try making a cylindrical mold like the OP was doing. It would be so easy to make a HP PP mold that way! I like the idea of being able to play with the length of the boolit without building a whole new mold. Once you find the sweet spot, just build a mold to duplicate it a bo-zillion times. Also, if you are into casting soft nose boolits, you could just adjust the length to its shortest possible setting and cast up a bunch of soft noses. Then back it off to its original setting and fill 'er up with hard lead. Too easy.
Good idea's fellers!

[Longwood]

Getting back to the original thread (sorry to hijack) I want to try making a cylindrical mold like the OP was doing. It would be so easy to make a HP PP mold that way! I like the idea of being able to play with the length of the boolit without building a whole new mold. Once you find the sweet spot, just build a mold to duplicate it a bo-zillion times. Also, if you are into casting soft nose boolits, you could just adjust the length to its shortest possible setting and cast up a bunch of soft noses. Then back it off to its original setting and fill 'er up with hard lead. Too easy.
Good idea's fellers!

I made my first attempt at a mold 'WITH' a sprue cutter.
The later ones, I cast bullets with before installing the plate.
I made a small split sleeve (collet) that fit the bullets snugly so I can chuck them in the lathe too machine off the sprue until I decide on the length/weight I want the bullets.

[Longwood]

I'll make you a promise. You get yourself a 7" lathe and a reprint of South Bend's book, "How to Run a Lathe" which is very inexpensive and a wealth of info, and I'll scrape together a care package of odds and ends for ya, and send it your way!


................Buckshot

Make a list Buckshot.
I may be able to help wth that.

[nanuk]

I am going bonkers....I have a tooth that broke and I need a cap...

Which one should I do ?

DoctorBill !

DrB

I'd get 'em all pulled.... Mine hurt so bad all the time, I'll NEVER get another crown, and doubt I'll get a filling... just yank 'em.... sooner the better for me.

(I'll just have to bring along a buddy to chew my steak for me in moose camp)

[DoctorBill]

Now I'm wondering if obtaining a LARGE Floor Drill Press isn't a better idea ?
http://www.harborfreight.com/16-speed-floor-drill-press-43389.html

I bought a cross vice from Harbor Freight.
http://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch-cross-slide-vise-32997.html

Now - what if I bolt that "Cross Vice" to the LARGE adjustable table and
use the Drill Chuck like a small Milling Machine ?

I could Drill, Bore and slowly Mill objects made of Aluminum - couldn't I ?

The Milling I could do with a milling bit and feeding the object into the bit
by rotating the vise feed....goes in two directions.

Being a HACK AMATEUR and NOT KNOWING SQUAT, I am of the impression that
a Milling Machine would do ME more good for making molds than a Lathe.

Harbor Freight sells this small milling machine....for the same price as the small lathe.
http://www.harborfreight.com/two-speed-variable-bench-mill-drill-machine-44991.html
Read the Customer Comments of this.
They have a $1200 larger machine....always more money........

I'm thinking maybe it would be better for me if the work does not spin, but the
tool does. I could mill straight sides, bore holes and cavities all under CONTROL.

What do you all think of THAT ?

DoctorBill

[nanuk]

DrB: a vertical mill can drill, but a vertical drill mills poorly... that is what I've been told, as the quill tolerances and strength are not up to the task

but I have been on the lookout for a big floor drill to try the same thing, as there is no way on God's green earth I can afford a vertical mill

[DoctorBill]

" there is no way on God's green earth I can afford a vertical mill "
Me too !

How about the small machines and going SLOOOOWLY.

No big bites - patience is the word....and use Aluminum only.

or maybe I should just break into my bank account and go BUY the darned bullet molds.

I'm between a Chuck or a Vice.

DoctorBill

[Longwood]

" there is no way on God's green earth I can afford a vertical mill "
Me too !

How about the small machines and going SLOOOOWLY.

No big bites - patience is the word....and use Aluminum only.

or maybe I should just break into my bank account and go BUY the darned bullet molds.

I'm between a Chuck or a Vice.

DoctorBill

iIf you go very slowly with a very sharp, tiny endmill, spinning very fast in a drill press, it is possible to do ROUGH machining in wood and aluminum.
Of course, one slight grab of the endmill or a teenie misjudgement and you will break the endmill and/or tear up the part you just spent hours on.

[Buckshot]

..............Drill presses, built AS drill presses don't have quills designed to carry side loads. In addition to that, a drill press that's worth a hoot is going to cost more then that 7" lathe. Now if you could find a good ole American made DP (I assume you mean a homeowner type DP) that was produced back in the 50 and 60's you'd probably be able to do some LIGHT milling with it. They weren't designed for it either, but they were built a heckuva lot better then a lot of the big box store Asian import junk.

Heck, my dad has my grandfather's benchmodel Craftsman DP from the lathe '50's and it's about as stout as one of those column type mill drills! You can drill in the lathe to ya know? Generally the work spins and the drill bit is stationary. Don't understand the resistance to getting a lathe. They don't call it the "King of the Machineshop" for 'nuttin ya know? :-) Get the lathe, and some months down the road pick up a milling attachment for it.

...............Buckshot

[nanuk]

Lathes are Always on the list......

one of these days.....

one of these days.....

[MBTcustom]

I have heard it said that the lathe is the only tool in the shop that can rebuild itself. I cant figure out where they come off with that statement but somebody can do it I guess. I bought the lathe first because it is absolutly indispensable for certain jobs, but a milling machine with a shaping attachment and a rotary table cant be beat for versatility. I realy believe I could make almost anything with that setup.
The downside to the cheap lathes is that you have to do some "leementing" if you will pardon the borrowed expression. I had to help a buddy rework the gibbs and such right off the bat. Of course, once we were done he had a very useful little machine.
I would say to anybody thinking about it, that you should get the biggest and best machine that you can afford. By no means should you go buying something as monstrous as what I did, but if you can get something big enough to get a barrel between centers, you've got it made!
A little tip, you should go to the local scrap/junk yard to look for some of these machines. You wouldn't believe what people throw away! Right now in a local junk yard I know that they have some old belt driven lathes that somebody dropped off and sold as scrap! You can pick up motors for cheap, you can get replacement belts and get it going. They have the equipment to load it in your tailor, and you can get a wrecker to offload it at the house. voila!
And even in its old and well used state, I would take an old American made machine over a new Chinese one any old day of the week.

[Longwood]

Here is an example of "Light" milling that I did on a drill press.
the photo is lousy but you may be able to get an idea of how sloppy it is.
Note the red stuff.
That is how I took out the loosie goosie that I ended up with.
It is red Loctite, that I kept from sticking to the gun with a release agent.
I wished I had not begun it when I kept breaking new end mills.

[longbow]

Okay, found some photos. They didn't shrink real well but should be decent enough to see what's what. I guess I need photo lessons for Cast Boolits!

- 12 ga. slug mould is a solid bronze mould with ejector pin to make HP and FP slugs
- 12 ga. slugs are well... 12 ga. slugs made in that mould
- 12 ga. top view is showing sprue plate open with HP pin in the mould
- D bit and nose form is a .30 cal mould I made with full diameter sliding nose form. I made the D bit to boolit shape but decided to use the sliding nose form. The D bit was also used to make the nose form. The boolits have been "knurled" after to put annular rings on them for tumble lubing (shown are .30 cal on the right and .44 from another mould on the left).
- push out mould is one of my pushout moulds. In this case the mould is simply 3/4" round bar (shown in D bit photo) dropped in and adjusted with the threaded fitting in the bottom. Makes for easy mould changes and less work. One "mould holder" can take quick change moulds.
- Top view shows the nose form slid up in the .30 cal mould in the mould holder

As mentioned, my work is not near as classy as Buckshot's. He does very nice work. These moulds do work well though and are good for making PP boolits but I also knurl and shoot groove diameter boolits with good success too.

The D bit is effectively half a boolit cut lengthwise to exactly the middle. It is a 0 rake cutting tool. They will cut steel quite well at low speed and work very well on brass or bronze. I think the D bit shown was made from an old grade 8 head bolt from my wife's Mazda van (best use that vehicle ever gave us!) ~ annealed, formed then heat treated. Turned on a lathe but filed to the middle, heat treated then the flat honed on a diamond sharpener.

I hope that helps explain a bit.

Longbow

[MBTcustom]

Very nice work Longbow, now that I've got to try!
Have you ever shot a deer (or other similar sized animal) with that monstrous slug?
Are you saying that you knurl smooth sided boolits, tumble lube, and shoot them?
How fast, and how accurate?

[longbow]

Thanks Goodsteel but I have to say that there are many better machinists on this site than me (look at Buckshot's work!). I have a beat up old Craftsman (Atlas lathe with a 3 1/2" swing and 18" centers. It needs rebuilding and so do I! For now it does the job though if I am careful about backlash.

The boolits these moulds make are very good and of course can be custom sizes to suit any gun especially when paper patched.

I made a 20 ga. hollowbase wadcutter mould (basically a flat nosed Foster slug) about 30 years ago and thought I was pretty smart then saw that Ideal had been making their "Cylindrical Molds" about 100 years ago. Anyway, it worked pretty well. That one was made on a drill press.

Next one was after I got my lathe about 20 years ago and was for my .44 Marlin because at the time I could not find a mould to suit the 0.4315" groove. I could have lapped out a standard mould but decided to make a push out mould. It was smooth sided and I used a grease cookie under the boolit with good accuracy and no leading.

The knurling was an afterthought more recently to try out LLA and it seems to work fine in my .303 for light to moderate loads. I haven't chronographed but they should be in the 1400 to 1600 FPS range. Using up to about 13 gr. Unique under a 200 gr. boolit has given good results. If loaded with heavier charges of slower powder I use COW filler so leading isn't an issue. These are PB boolits after all so will have about the same or maybe lower pressure/velocity limits than a GG PB boolit. I do plan to make a PB gas check maker though to see how that goes.

My "knurler" is a home made affair sort of like the Corbin knurler but I used annular rings to produce "microgrooves" for tumble lubing. Seems to work well but the boolits grow about 0.002" to 0.003" when knurled so the mould has to be made accordingly.

I made a smooth sided .30 cal. for PP in my .308 using an N reamer which makes a 0.302" hole and the boolit casts at 0.301" which is perfect for patching in 0.308" barrel but small for a .303. I was getting poor PP accuracy in the .303 even patched to groove diameter so I knurled some to 0.304" then patched and shot. Accuracy was much better. I haven't done much PP'ing for the .303 though.

As for accuracy, I would have to sit down and do side by side comparison with GG boolits but the first good shooting boolit from my Marlin was one of these smooth sided boolits (not paper patched) and it shot quite well. Casual shooting with iron sights gave me about 4" at 100 yards. That was with 265 gr. smooth boolit over grease cookie. The same boolit gave 10" at 200 yards which may not sound like much but that was casual shooting with iron sights, heavy trigger and old eyes so I don't think it is too bad. These were being loaded to typical "J" bullet velocities over H110 and IMR4227.

I made a PP mould for my .44 and cast up some 300 gr. Accuracy at 50 yards was good at under 2" but at 100 yards they were sideways through the paper. It seems they would start to lose stability at about 75 yards then were "gone". Anything up to about 270 grs. worked well so I have keppt the weight down in my 1:38" twist Marlin. One of the benefits of adjustable weight moulds!

Also, in the .303 these smooth boolits produced better accuracy than a Lyman 314299 that cast at about 0.313" in my 0.314" groove Lee Enfield. A smooth sided boolit of 0.315" shot considerably better with same loads.

I am not much of a hunter at least for 4 legged critters, I do like bird hunting though. I haven't shot anything living with any of these boolits or the shotgun slug.

The slug mould was actually made as a prototype for a friend who was developing a slug/wad combo to be marketed commercially for rifled shotgun so I won't go into detail. He is currently going another route for sabot slug but the design is his anyway.

He reported good penetration in tests and the deep HP tended to break into 3 or 4 large pieces producing devastating wound channel. It weighs about 630 grs.

I have made several different types of slug moulds including hollow base, finned and ribbed. I am using a solid version with attached wad currently as my "development" slug. Still in testing when I get time but so far pretty good.

One significant benefit to these solid body moulds is that the boolits produced are round with no seam of possibility of offset blocks. They are also much easier to make for the tool challenged than split blocks.

Doctorbill is on the right track and so far so good. With the tools he has he is doing nice work and those boolits if correct size should shoot fine. The mould can be easily lapped to smooth any machine marks and also to work them to final diameter. I also make sure there is a veeeeeery slight taper of maybe 0.0005" from nose to base for easy ejection.

They can be made on small lathes that don't cost a bunch and very minimal tooling is required. Even skill level required is not high. If you can turn and bore, you can make one of these moulds.

Anyway, this is becoming a major thread hijack now so I better quit rambling.

Longbow

[DoctorBill]

I have started a new Thread named,

My First Attempt at a "D-Bit" Bullet Mold
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=1585456&postcount=1

BTW, longbow - Those are nice pictures of the IDEAL Mold !

Thank you !

I am sure that those pictures will inspire (?) others to make their own versions.

DoctorBill

[MBTcustom]

Yeah, sorry for the hijack Doc, I didn't mean to contribute, just got swept away in conversation.

[DoctorBill]

Oh, Lord, don't worry about that ! CONTRIBUTE to education !

All these posts have been filled with......information !

I have learned a lot and just thought that it would be better to dissect some of
these various ideas into separate threads - just for the sake of "KISS".

There is a lot to learn and from the responses to this thread, a whole lot
of the unwashed, amateur, garage and basement "machinists" who want to
try making molds, but who are intimidated by the whole idea - liked it.

I would hope that this thread is a teaching tool....after all I teach Chemistry at
the local Community College and my creed is "Teach what you have learned
to others - or it gets lost forever. i.e. - wasted bandwidth."

Often, some folks resent people trying to teach them something...but they are
the losers - in the end.

Those who don't teach others what they have learned are wasting their education.

"Those who can't do - teach" is, of course, absurd on the face of it.....

DoctorBill

PS - goodsteel - "The only thing worse than living in a country that does not believe
in individual gun ownership, is being a law-abiding citizen in that country"

You mean, like in England ? Where it is ILLEGAL to defend yourself or your property ?

[Doughty]

DrBill,
Just stumbled on to this thread. Suggest you find Bixby Machine in your town. On Fancher north of Broadway I believe. They carry a lot of what you are interested in. Usually have good information to share. Got lots of used equipment of all sorts out back. They've got a website too. I'd check them out before you buy any equipment. So far they've beat Grizzly and Enco every time I've checked.
Richard

[Wolfer]

I am not a machinist, don't even personally know one anymore but have always found it interesting.
Some time back I bought a lathe at a farm auction for 125.00. It an 1894 Porter machine works that has been converted from steam to a small electric moter via a model A transmission.
I already had a copy of practical machine work that I'd read many times. So off I run to Grizzly to buy me a handful of bits and started playing with it. It's about .030 runout so I built me a steady rest for it and started practicing my threading. Not ready to try a real barrel yet but I'm getting closer. About as fun a toy I ever bought for 125.00

[Longwood]

I very much enjoy making stuff with my cheapie Chinese lathe/mill combo.
Since I have joined this site, I have gotten numerous idea's here and made many items that would have cost a lot of money. I have not added it all up but it is into the hundreds of dollars.

Nowdays, just about anything enjoyable costs several bucks an hour so it did not take long for my machine to pay for itself in enjoyment alone.
It makes as much sense to me to have a machine that I can enjoy and make cheap parts on when the weather is not so good as a gun that I seldom shoot.
Plus,,,, I can shoot more,,,, cheaper than before.

[DoctorBill]

I had a Thread here called,

"My First Attempt at a "D-Bit" Bullet Mold"
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=143164

It was moved over to the SPECIAL PROJECTS section because of some complainers.

Just FYI, in case you are interested.

DoctorBill

[montana_charlie]

Yeah, we know.
Those who WERE interested are still posting in it ...

CM

[Longwood]

I used the lathe again yesterday to make a new taper crimping sleeve for my Hornady seater die for paper patched to .458-.459, bullets.
The crimp die that came with it, works quite well for grease groove bullets, but not at all the paper patched ones.