Hooking up a 220v Lee Pot to PID.

[Colorado4wheel]

So I want to hook a 220v Lee pot up to a PID. The 110v Lee pot has a wire going to one side of the heating element and another wire going through the variable switch. No ground. But simple.

The 220 V has 1 hot going directly to the heating element. The other hot goes straight to the switch and then to the other side of the heating coil. Ground is screwed to the frame.

So it would seem I would only need one relay. Attach one Hot to the heating coil directly, the other hot to the relay and then ground goes to ground. That seems wrong because the two hots are going to connect when the relay opens. But that seems to be how Lee has it wired. Any thoughts?

[Casting Timmy]

I would get a relay that could throw both hots at once, but you have the right idea. My suggestion would be not eliminating the facotry switch from the pot, but just turning it up all the way. This will give your pot a safety back up if something goes wrong with the PID, you will have the factory sensor as a back up system. Setting it up about all the way will ensure that it won't affect how the PID system works.

I like to route the incoming power straight to one of the contact legs on the relay. Then draw off power from the contact leg to a fuse-switch-PID. If you have a 220V PID you just need to use both legs to power your PID. If it's just 110V, use one hot and the other side to a nuetral.

[Colorado4wheel]

I would get a relay that could throw both hots at once, but you have the right idea. My suggestion would be not eliminating the facotry switch from the pot, but just turning it up all the way. This will give your pot a safety back up if something goes wrong with the PID, you will have the factory sensor as a back up system. Setting it up about all the way will ensure that it won't affect how the PID system works.

I like to route the incoming power straight to one of the contact legs on the relay. Then draw off power from the contact leg to a fuse-switch-PID. If you have a 220V PID you just need to use both legs to power your PID. If it's just 110V, use one hot and the other side to a nuetral.

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=1

So that PID has a relay built in. It's enough for 1200w and the pot is only 700w. So I would like to use that if possible. I think I would run one hot to the heating element directly (as it is now), the ground to the existing ground (as it is now). And then the final hot through the PID to the existing switch on the pot and then it goes to the other side of the heating element. That seems to make sense to me.

[shaune509]

Yes your PID in series with the Lee switch will do as you want, An SSR would protect the Pid from shot overload and run cooler.
Remember that a household 110/220 service is a 1phase/2phase system, 220volt between both power leads and 110volt between power and neutral-ground. The pots wattage is the same between 110v and 220v only the amperage is halved.
Shaune509

[jsizemore]

Remember that a household 110/220 service is a 1phase/2phase system, 220volt between both power leads and 110volt between power and neutral-ground.
Shaune509

Are you saying that your household 220 volt service is 2phase?

[shaune509]

yes, I got learned this by several electronics geeks. I was raised that it was eather singe or 3phase as that was the way that the electritions wiring jobs that I as a teenager worked as a helper said it was, then years latter I thought I corrected an electronics tech and then got schooled that it was really 2phase. I latter jokingly asked a lineman if they also refered ot it as a 2phase system and was confirmed it was even though an elder lineman piped in that it had been coman to refer it as single phase up into the late 80's early 90's. I've seen this same discussion on several different forums and thay all follow as I stated.
Shaune509

[jsizemore]

That's intresting. All the 220 appliances that you hook up to that wiring are speced as single phase. Go to the manufacturers of ranges and hot water heaters and see for yourself.

[kitsap]

That's intresting. All the 220 appliances that you hook up to that wiring are speced as single phase. Go to the manufacturers of ranges and hot water heaters and see for yourself.

+1 here....... single phase

If you look at the electrical service to your house, there are two high voltage wires that supply a transformer. One wire is hot and one is neutral and most likely in the 11,500 volt range and since only two wires is single phase. The power is run through a center tap transformer with the output center tap connected as neutral and usually grounded at the house (3 wires). Often times 3 wire is incorrectly repeated as 3 phase. Technically there is a small phase shift between the ends of the transformer output (230 volts) that you can see on an oscilloscope. People may misuse the terminology in many situations, but it is still single phase power.

DougF

[Frozone]

I want to try clear this up. I just happened to sign in today and saw this.

What you have in your house is 2 phases of 110v and a single phase of 220.

What?!?!?! Yes.

The voltage coming in is single phase 220, But it has a center tap wire called the 'Neutral'.

This neutral wire is then used to split the 220v into 2 phase 110 at the panel.

Coming in to your house is two Hot 230v (Blacks) and the neutral (white) wires.
(colors may very - until the panel. Not sure about that, ask a journeyman electrician)
At the panel the neutral wire is tied to the gee guess what - the neutral bus. A 220v hot wire is tied to 1 of 2 Hot buses in the panel. this divides the load equally as two 110V circuits.
This is why Most home panels have two rows of 110v breakers. The common center is the neutral, the outside buses are the two 110s

Measured from the neutral - the two 110v buses are out of phase by 180 deg. In other words as one bus is at + 110v, the other is at -110v. Both cross zero at the same time.

When you hook up a 220v appliance ( specifically the LEE pot), you only use the 2 black wires that feed each 110v supply bus.
The third wire of the 220v should go to earth ground (green). It is only there to protect you from a short circuit to either Hot, it is not needed to complete the circuit .

[felix]

Terminology again. Actually, it's correctly called single phase because both "hots" cross zero at the same time making a COMPETE circuit of ONE phase. It costs big bucks to have a THREE phase system installed to your house, and typically not worth it. ... felix

[Frozone]

Terminology again. Actually, it's correctly called single phase because both "hots" cross zero at the same time making a COMPETE circuit of ONE phase. It costs big bucks to have a THREE phase system installed to your house, and typically not worth it. ... felix

Actually it's called "Split Phase".

You can at least get your terminology correct if you wish to correct me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split_phase

[felix]

Never had to worry about split phases, but you are correct enough. We have half-wave rectifiers, but I don't remember a split-wave rectifier. ... felix

[Sonnypie]

After 42 years in the Industrial and Utility Electrical Field I could explain it.
But then I'd have to kill ya....

[Colorado4wheel]

So the real question is....

Does putting the PID on the one Black HOT going to the existing thermostat make sense? I know I could delete the thermostat all together. That is not the question. Simply want to know if switching the one hot is the right way to go with a PID on a 220 lee pot. The other hot is attached to the other side of the heater coil.

[snuffy]

Post #1 on the special projects forum has a wiring diagram for 220 volt PID hook-up.

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=49410&highlight=PID


Horseman is where I got the idea for my PID on a 110 volt lee 20# pot.

[Colorado4wheel]

Looks like he just switched one of the two hots.

[Frozone]

....
http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=49410&highlight=PID.....

That scezo is overly complicated.

First, the PID (Auber's and many others) will take 220V power (a range of ~80V to ~260V is common) directly as it's input - read the documentation.
So you don't need a separate 'household' cord, you pull all power off the single 110V OR 220V input.
As an aside and to show you just how bogus that design is: Even in that design you don't need to bring in house hold 110V power - you can get it off of the L1(or2)/C1 circuit.

You don't even need the 'C1' leg at all, unless your PID will only take 110V power, it will only give an extra place to short something to.
It has no use in the running of the pot/PID. Plus, That way you can use a 3 wire cord instead of a 4 wire one.

If you leave out the C1 leg, there is no difference in the wiring between using 110V or 220V. Just think of the one black wire as a 'hot' white wire and don't touch it.
The only reason you have 2 blacks is 110V household code.

It doesn't matter if you leave the original control in place or not.
But remember Those have a failure rate also.
BTW I have a SSR controlled PID that has been running for a few years now without a hickup. I don't expect it will fail in my lifetime. It runs at temps below 32deg too. I do have to bring it inside to warm up before I can start it up though. Since it's fan cooled as well, it can operate at temps above 130 deg. It has a much greater range than I do ;-)

I'm going to order one of the Auber PIDs (the 2342). I have problems with the claim of 10 amps, and I want to see for myself. All the other models have identical hardware internally. (They simply remove the relay and jumper for the SSR model) Those other relay models only have 3A relays in them.

[popper]

I would be very careful running 220 and 110 pots in a set-up. The 220 neutral and 110 neutral are connected together, neither is safety ground. If you wire wrong (and houses are typically wired by monkeys) you or your equipment could get fried. I don't know how Lee gets away without a safety ground on their 110 pot. I would suggest converting them to the same voltage. If the pots are in separate locations, yes you wire the PID the same as 110 but use 220 rated parts ( PID controller and SSR ). I suggest the external SSR, it's an inexpensive REPLACEABLE unit.