The Russian 7.62 Nagant Revolver

[Sasquatch-1]

I saw a guy with a Russian 7.62 Nagant Revolver. One of the most interesting revolvers I have ever seen. The revolver's ammo had a necked down case and the bullet was totally recessed in the case. The guy who was shooting it showed me that when the hammer is cocked the intire cylinder moves forward placing the en of the bullet in the forcing cone area.

[gunfan]

I have seen (and owned, but never shot) a Russian 7.62 Nagant revolver. For a while, you could obtain a cylinder specially made to chamber the .32 ACP. If I had another Nagant revolver, I would search the world over to obtain one of these cylinders.

If you look over the loading data for the 7.62 Nagant round, you'll discover that at it's peak loading, you'll have all the power of a low to mid-range .32 S&W Long (usually about 100 ft-lb of energy at best.) A .32 ACP cylinder for the revolver would serve you well.

Scott

[Wheeler]

Not to be argumentative, bt I thought the peak loading for the .7.62 Nagant was closer to a .32/20. I'll see if I can't find the information to back up that claim.

There was a guy on a local forum here that had a Nagant revolver with a threaded barrel and a custom cylinder for .32 Mag. About the only revolver I've seen that could be truly suppressed.

[gunfan]

Russian Nagant ammo



Muzzle energy for an 86 grain bullet at 962 feet per second would be about 175 foot pounds. While that can be lethal it’s hardly earth shattering. Power wise it is between a 32 Smith & Wesson long and a 32 H & R magnum. However like any firearm it should be treated with respect at all times as it can kill someone. The loaded Russian ammo was 1.522” long while the Graf brass I loaded was 1.461” long. As a comparison the 32-20 ammo with a 118 grain lead bullet was 1.559” long and barely protruded beyond the cylinder. While they could possibly fire in some guns I wouldn’t recommend it. As a thought I loaded 4 X Unique in the 32-20 case with the 77 grain 313 diameter round nose seated just deep enough at 1.521” to allow the cylinder to rotate. The idea was an attempt to produce better accuracy as the bullet was closer to the rifling then the others. Also it allowed me to use the correct diameter bullet as opposed to the 308 slugs. The idea worked quite well. Hitting small targets at 15 yards was not much of a problem except for the sights. Paper targets show smaller groups with .313 diameter bullets especially the wad cutters. I had some groups that had 3 or 4 bullets touching at 10 yards with the rest from 1 to 3” away. That was measurably better then the Nagant factory or my Nagant ammo. With target sights and a better trigger I have little doubt that I could of done even better. Of course this ammo can be safely shot in a 32-20 revolver. Is it worth the trouble to get better accuracy out of the Nagant? You bet! One of the reasons to handload your own ammo is to improve accuracy. Another advantage in using 32-20 brass is that it’s cheap and plentiful. I also obtained some Hornady round balls to produce some novelty loads. They were .310 and .314 in diameter weighing 47 and 48 grains respectively. I put 2 -.310 diameter balls in the regular Nagant cases as they easily fit and 1- 314 diameter in a 32-20 case seated out. Another novel load I used was 80 grains of 7 & ½ shot in the full length Nagant case. Using 4 grains of 231 behind ½ of a 38 caliber styrafoam blank wad worked out real good. Holding the shot in was a Hornady 30 caliber gas check. It would kill a mouse at 15 feet away without blowing a hole in a wall. At 10 feet it made a nice round circle and had an even pattern. Loads like these just show what a person can do with a little imagination to broaden the use of a gun such as this. If you want a blank pistol then blanks can easily be made from 32-20 cases see Shotgun News 8/15/05 on how to make blanks. I used a round ball loaded light such as a gallery load. At 10 yards I was able to hit a soda can every time as long as I did my job. I tried the Hornady 90 grain hollow base wad cutter loaded backwards an old trick in 38 specials. While not the most accurate load it expanded well in catalogs and retained all its weight. If you were going to use the Nagant for a home defense load that along with the 2 ball load would be the best. During the test for this article I fired the gun over 500 times plus some shooting by other shooters and I had no misfires or other functional problems associated with the revolver. During the tests I did not clean the gun in any way just to see how it would function. Brass loss with all cases was nil because I didn’t try to make a magnum out of it. Such reloading practices would also extend the life of the gun. While not as smooth as a good quality revolver in will none the less give good service life given proper care.






Good bullets for Nagant 312 in diameter


The revolver can be disassembled fairly easily. A screw up front holds in the rod that when removed can be used to knocks out the empties. Actually when I shoot it I carry something else with me to knock out the empties which is more convenient. A ten penny nail is perfect. There is a shroud that turns enabling the cylinder pin to be removed thus taking out the cylinder. The cylinder can be removed for cleaning or replacement. There is a cylinder available for the 32 auto pistol cartridge. However I have had a hard time finding one with anyone who advertises them. SOG advertises the cylinders a well as a verity of other models including a sporter model. I suppose that would make the Nagant marginally more useful as 32 ammo is easy to get. The grips are made of a hard brown plastic and deeply checkered. They are fairly comfortable and would be easy to hold on to during bad weather. Since recoil is light the checkering won’t hurt your hands during shooting. Since it weighs only1lb and 12ozs its easy to carry. A holster comes with it that revolver has a small pouch for carrying ammo.





Bullet seated deep in case as a typical Nagant load





There are various markings on the gun. On the left side of the frame is the date below a circle with a triangle inside with an arrow pointing up. There are stars on the hammer and trigger. Right above the trigger guard is a star and some symbols. On the right side of the frame is the letters kb1 hbg , pa Russia and M1895 7.62 Nagant. The serial number is located just above the trigger guard on the right side of the frame. The left front of the frame sports some more numbers and some sort of a symbol. To be honest I don’t know what all the markings mean though some are obvious. I imagine that they are inspector and arsenal markings. There are index marks on the barrel and frame. There is a lanyard on the grip with some sort of markings. The front of the cylinder has some markings on it. If nothing else the gun is well marked and other specimens that I examined had similar markings.
All in all it’s not the most useful gun in the cupboard. However if a person wanted an inexpensive gun and reloaded this could be a winner for them. Would I use it for self defense? Only if I couldn’t get my hands on something else except a 25 or 32 auto. With a couple of the better loads I developed it just might do the job. If I just wanted to go out and have some fun plinking I would most certainly consider taking it along.



Bob Shell




A 7.62 Swedish Nagant
Posted by Bob Shell at 3:17 PM
2 comments:
MauserMedic said...
Mr. Shell;

Interesting article here. I purchased one of these some time ago, but haven't gotten around to shooting it, partially due to a deep reluctance to use ammunition that would likely be not reloadable. I look forward to trying out some of the 32-20 loads this summer.
May 23, 2009 8:32 PM
Anonymous said...
Dear Mr. Shell,

"Gas Seal" feature of 1895 Nagant
Revolver comes from the fact of
bullet pass through the crimped
mouth of shell case as enlarging
and forcefully sticking there to
the barrel cone resulting zero gas
escape therethrough. Mechanicaly
forwarding the cylinder is only
needed for inserting the crimped
section of case into the barrel
cone and upper front of the trigger
has a notch cooperating with an
enlarged rim of cylinder to extract
the sticked case mouth from the
barrel cone. jacketed bullet is
necessary to get real function and
effect and provides approximately
20 percent of added power compared
to unsealed construction.

Best regards.
October 5, 2009 11:26 PM
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[smkummer]

We have fired 32 S&W Long ammo in this gun. The cases buldge and sometimes split so it would be for emergency use only, but it works.

[gunfan]

We have fired 32 S&W Long ammo in this gun. The cases buldge and sometimes split so it would be for emergency use only, but it works.

DAYUM, I wouldn't want to try it! I would like to have one of the .32 ACP cylinders milled out to accept the .32 S&W Long. Not only would it be arranged to chamber a "modern" caliber, but you could push the upper-end of the "velocity envelope" .32 S&W Long (100-grains at 950-1000 fps from a 4" barrel.) This would make it a viable SD revolver.

Scott

[9.3X62AL]

Check the search function here, there have been a number of threads concerning this caliber and its revolver over the years.

My own experience with my 1916 Tula Arsenal example has been fairly positive, using the Starline brass alluded to above that is now out-of-print. I used the Lee 100 grain RN casting at .311" or .312" (can't recall, been awhile) atop 3.0 grains of WW-231. Not a Magnum load by any means, but I did manage to keep 6" iron plates at Angeles Shooting Ranges ringing and bouncing at 35 yards. I've nailed jackrabbits with the contraption as well, but I am bound to say that I was having very good days on those occasions--and the jacks were having profoundly bad ones.

I regard the revolver as a historic curiosity more than a viable small game/varmint harvester. My bias favors hunting when it comes to mid-caliber handguns, and a good 32 Magnum or 32 S&W Long would be a far better and less frustrating platform than any Nagant revolver I've handled.

[gunfan]

Check the search function here, there have been a number of threads concerning this caliber and its revolver over the years.

My own experience with my 1916 Tula Arsenal example has been fairly positive, using the Starline brass alluded to above that is now out-of-print. I used the Lee 100 grain RN casting at .311" or .312" (can't recall, been awhile) atop 3.0 grains of WW-231. Not a Magnum load by any means, but I did manage to keep 6" iron plates at Angeles Shooting Ranges ringing and bouncing at 35 yards. I've nailed jackrabbits with the contraption as well, but I am bound to say that I was having very good days on those occasions--and the jacks were having profoundly bad ones.

I regard the revolver as a historic curiosity more than a viable small game/varmint harvester. My bias favors hunting when it comes to mid-caliber handguns, and a good 32 Magnum or 32 S&W Long would be a far better and less frustrating platform than any Nagant revolver I've handled.

I concur. This is probably as it should be. While I wouldn't want to be shot by ANY of them, of the three cartridges mentioned, the .32 Harrington & Richardson Magnum would DEFINITELY be at the bottom of the "Hit Parade."

Scott

[x101airborne]

I just did a write-up on a nagant revolver called Nagant pistol economy. I really enjoyed the challenge of working with this revolver and cannot wait to harvest some squirrels and such with it. It proved very accurate with the 95 grain .315 SWC's over 3.5 grains red dot. I liked it so much, I am looking for several more. Totally cool gun. As for knockdown, well....... I did say squirrels, right?

[gunfan]

I just did a write-up on a nagant revolver called Nagant pistol economy. I really enjoyed the challenge of working with this revolver and cannot wait to harvest some squirrels and such with it. It proved very accurate with the 95 grain .315 SWC's over 3.5 grains red dot. I liked it so much, I am looking for several more. Totally cool gun. As for knockdown, well....... I did say squirrels, right?

What velocities were derived from the 4" barreled 7.62 Nagant with that particular load?

[zxcvbob]

I started forming Nagant Revolver brass out of .223 rifle brass last year, but got stuck at the "turn down the belt you just made at the case web" step. Maybe I'll resurrect that project early this spring when it's still too cold and wet to go shooting, but good weather is on the horizon. It shouldn't take much of a lathe; a drill press and a flat file will probably do it. They should be a lot more durable than using .32-20 brass, and you can make them closer to the right length. (Use .30 Carbine dies to form, size, and to crimp)

Has anyone tried shooting .32 ACP's in the original cylinder? It should work, but that's an awfully long jump for the bullet.

[x101airborne]

What velocities were derived from the 4" barreled 7.62 Nagant with that particular load?

I did not chrony those loads, but there was no sonic crack, so I would guess around950 - 1000. The only reason I say so, is 3.8 grains did crack. YMMV of course.

[gunfan]

I did not chrony those loads, but there was no sonic crack, so I would guess around950 - 1000. The only reason I say so, is 3.8 grains did crack. YMMV of course.

I LIKE IT! :grin:

Scott

[nwellons]

I shoot my 2 Nagants regularly using full length Nagant ammo cases.

Using the Lee 100g boolit, I average around 1250 fps.

Here is my chrono run:
Small Magnum Rifle primers 1253, 1237, 1241, 1255, 1256, 1249 (Other primers gave poor consistency)

Cases are easy to eject and accuracy is untested. I use mine for plinking at a 100 yard clay bank and it is accurate enough for my use.

I use the type of powder the Russians had to resort to during WWI shortages.

Black powder, in my case Goex FFFg. Great smoke, great smell, and great fun.

[Mike 56]

I have been loading for my 1895 Nagant for while now. I use starline 32-20 brass and Lee Nagant dies. I have used .314 90gr HBWC and hard cast.312 90gr SWC bullets. I crimp my cases with a 30 Carbine Lee FCD. I have heard others use a Lee 32-20 FCD. I started out using Unique powder i worked my way up to 4gr. Then i started using 3.5gr of Trail Boss. My gun shot good with Unique but it shot much better with Trail Boss.

I also have a 32acp cylinder my little nagant shoots 32acp well.

If you have 7.62x38R brass some guys are cutting it down to make 32-20 style brass out of it. You can use a dremel to fit #19 Lee shell holders fit Nagant brass.

I found a how-to on using a 30 Carbine Lee loader to make gas sealing loads for the Nagant. http://parallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforums.yuku.com/topic/32541/7-62-Nagant-Reloading-with-a-Lee-Loader-Two-Part-Post#.

[gunfan]

I have been loading for my 1895 Nagant for while now. I use starline 32-20 brass and Lee Nagant dies. I have used .314 90gr HBWC and hard cast.312 90gr SWC bullets. I crimp my cases with a 30 Carbine Lee FCD. I have heard others use a Lee 32-20 FCD. I started out using Unique powder i worked my way up to 4gr. Then i started using 3.5gr of Trail Boss. My gun shot good with Unique but it shot much better with Trail Boss.

I also have a 32acp cylinder my little nagant shoots 32acp well.

If you have 7.62x38R brass some guys are cutting it down to make 32-20 style brass out of it. You can use a dremel to fit #19 Lee shell holders fit Nagant brass.

I found a how-to on using a 30 Carbine Lee loader to make gas sealing loads for the Nagant. http://parallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforums.yuku.com/topic/32541/7-62-Nagant-Reloading-with-a-Lee-Loader-Two-Part-Post#.

Sounds like .32 caliber fun to me! Yowsuh! 8-):mrgreen:

Scott

[Rio Grande]

I've been using full length 'correct' 7.62x38r brass and 3.5 red dot.
.309 LRN.
Not hard to reload, I made my own dies from bits and pcs. of old dies.
Very accurate and barks and kicks a good bit. No chrony, so I can't say velocity.
Don't let anyone fool you, it's accurate and over 1000fps w/ the right load.

I'd like more of the 7.62x38r reloadable brass. I only have 30.
If anyone doesn't care to reload it, I'd like to buy it from you.
PM me. thanks.

[9.3X62AL]

Rio Grande--

Fiocchi imports loaded ammo in 7.62 x 38R with brass the proper length. Its MSRP isn't too decadent, about $27 for a box of 50. MidwayUSA and Graf's list it, and even have it in stock once in a while.

I read somewhere that full-tilt ammo in this caliber was spec'd at 1100 FPS. I haven't tried running my loads that hot, but it appears that at least a few enthusiasts have survived such attempts! :)

[gunfan]

That could be a great deal of fun! "Full-tilt" ammo for this revolver could make it truly viable for all sorts of uses (both sporting and self-defense.)

Scott

[Who's this Guy ?]

Privi-Partisan makes runs of 7.62 Nagant ammo. .32 ACP conversion cylinders were and I believe still available. I'm not sure these days who's stocking them. Years ago I believe it was J&G and they were korean made. They also were hit and miss as to fit. Most had to be fitted to the gun. I know of one gunsmith who fitted one to a gun. He said, single action was easy but for double action he said when he thought he got it to work, he would set the gun down and come back to it and it wouldn't index the cylinder. When he finally got it 100% he said he would never take that job on again. He passed away not to long after that I heard so he probabably held true to his words.

[Ragnarok]

I own three M1895 Nagants.

One came with a .32acp cylinder..but it wouldn't work in that particular revolver. I tried the .32acp cylinder in my other two Nagants...and it fit and worked perfectly in my 1945 Ishevsk gun...not the other two guns(both Tulas)..

[3006guns]

I bought a Nagant many, many years ago for $15 if I recall.....complete with four rounds of original ammuntion. It must have been an early production gun as the finish was very nice, easily on par with a Smith and Wesson of the same period. Nicely polished and blued. Of course, I shot the four rounds right away leaving me with a nice looking paper weight afterwards. I don't remember what happened to that gun, but I probably gave it to someone. Interestingly, it was single action only.

A slew of them were imported some years ago as discarded war reserves and my gunsmith bought several, just for giggles....hey, $49.95...how can you go wrong? The finish was a little rougher than what I remember, but they all functioned well. Interesting design and historically important, but just to much of a "kluk" for me.

[gunfan]

Interesting design and historically important, but just to much of a "kluk" for me.

An elitist, eh? (I'm just kidding.)

As long as they shoot safely, I'm into all types of guns! History is WONDERFUL! I do love all types of guns. Even the Rohm Model 14 revolver. (This was the cheap cast zinc revolver made in West Germany used to shoot President Reagan and James Brady.)

Scott

[Hang Fire]

AIM will soon have the Nagant revolver for $110.00 and they say all of them are in excellent condition as seen in the pics at link.


1/12/12: Arriving Very Soon!
FFL/03 C&R Required. Shipping Restrictions Apply.

Original Russian model 1895 7.62x38R (7.62 Nagant) caliber Nagant Revolvers. This historical Revolver was used and manufactured by the Russians throughout WWI and WWII. These guns are dated in 1930-40's. They are in Excellent condition as the pictures show. Expect only minor wear from military type storage. Grip may vary in color and type. Each includes the holster, tool, and cleaning rod. Though accessories may vary in size, shape, color, and condition.



http://www.aimsurplus.com/eos/images/product/f3nagant3.jpg



http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F3Nagant

[Who's this Guy ?]

I bought a Nagant many, many years ago for $15 if I recall.....complete with four rounds of original ammuntion. It must have been an early production gun as the finish was very nice, easily on par with a Smith and Wesson of the same period. Nicely polished and blued. Of course, I shot the four rounds right away leaving me with a nice looking paper weight afterwards. I don't remember what happened to that gun, but I probably gave it to someone. Interestingly, it was single action only.

A slew of them were imported some years ago as discarded war reserves and my gunsmith bought several, just for giggles....hey, $49.95...how can you go wrong? The finish was a little rougher than what I remember, but they all functioned well. Interesting design and historically important, but just to much of a "kluk" for me.

Originaly the Nagant revolver for enlisted men was in Single-Action only and for the officers Double action model for them. When these were overhauled after the Great Patriotic War they were all converted to Double Action, so I have read.

[gunfan]

Originaly the Nagant revolver for enlisted men was in Single-Action only and for the officers Double action model for them. When these were overhauled after the Great Patriotic War they were all converted to Double Action, so I have read.

Interesting. One would think that they would have been DA/SA from the outset. Had they been, it would have been mush safer (as well as a lifesaver.)

Scott

[Who's this Guy ?]

Interesting. One would think that they would have been DA/SA from the outset. Had they been, it would have been mush safer (as well as a lifesaver.)

Scott

I never could understand that either. Why the enlisted/officer difference? Most likely a political decision would be my guess.

[gunfan]

The Soviet enlisted man was so much "cannon fodder" as it were.

Scott

[mooman76]

https://www.buymilsurp.com/cylinder-32-acp-replacement-m1895-nagant-revolver-p-476.html

Try here.

[WRideout]

I got mine from Souther Ohio Gun a few years ago, with the help of a local FFL dealer to transfer. I pick it up every time I go in the gun room and dry fire. The more I use it, the more I like it. I have small hands for a guy, and the grips are just about right for me. I rolled up a box of my standard reloads for it yesterday; PPU brass and 5.3 gr Unique under a Lee 100 gr cast PB. Lube is a homemade concoction of paraffin, water pump grease and JPW. I haven't officially checked the accuracy, but it is minute of paper plate at 25 yards, and loads of fun to shoot. I plan to work on the trigger, which is truly awful.

Wayne

[Sasquatch-1]

After seeing one and how it works, it is a neat little gun, but what is the allure of it? If I want something light, I can go with .25acp, any of the more common 32's, 380, 38spl or even light 9MM. All these are way more available and I have to beleive cheeper to shoot.

I am not trying to upset anyone, I am just curious. :?:

[gunfan]

After seeing one and how it works, it is a neat little gun, but what is the allure of it? If I want something light, I can go with .25acp, any of the more common 32's, 380, 38spl or even light 9MM. All these are way more available and I have to beleive cheeper to shoot.

I am not trying to upset anyone, I am just curious. :?:

It's an opportunity to shoot something different, handload for it and see how much one can wring out of the old girls!

They do it, because they can!

Scott

[Mike 56]

After seeing one and how it works, it is a neat little gun, but what is the allure of it? If I want something light, I can go with .25acp, any of the more common 32's, 380, 38spl or even light 9MM. All these are way more available and I have to beleive cheeper to shoot.

I am not trying to upset anyone, I am just curious. :?:

I will admit the little Nagant is not for everyone it is a odd little gun that said i mostly shoot cap and ball revolvers but i always take the nagant with me to the range. I really enjoy shooting it.

As far as ammo you can't get much cheaper than Unique powder and home cast bullets. All you need for start up is a Lee Loader 25.00, Starline 32-20 brass 20.00, Lee mold 20.00 and some powder 20.00. Thats a lot of ammo for 105.00 and it could be cheaper than that if you already have some of the components.

[WRideout]

After seeing one and how it works, it is a neat little gun, but what is the allure of it? If I want something light, I can go with .25acp, any of the more common 32's, 380, 38spl or even light 9MM. All these are way more available and I have to beleive cheeper to shoot.

I am not trying to upset anyone, I am just curious. :?:

If it was easy, everbody would be doing it. Seriously, I tried the factory ammo, and it was pretty anemic. With my handloads, I think it can approach the power of a 32-20. When I saw them listed in the ads, I just couldn't pass up a real center fire revolver for less than $100.00.

Wayne

[Sasquatch-1]

I can understand wanting to shoot historic weapons. Heck, if I could afford it I would own a historic Gatlin gun. The thing is some of the people here are talking as if it is their main self defense or CCW gun. I just think that instead of playing around with more potent loads, that could blow up in your face litterly, that there are much more suitable firearms for this purpose. It is like using a pistol Xbow for a CCW. I have my pet guns that I would not seriously consider for selfdefense because thay are not suited to the needs.

Here again, just trying to stimulate conversation.

[Hang Fire]

IMO, cannot see trying to hot rod old guns, if they killed with cartridges as designed, they will still kill today.

I have a .44-40 Colt 1873 SA, (Colt letter states mfg. 1886) it is in very good mechanical shape, locks up tight and timing is perfect. I really like to shoot it occasionally with 200 grain boolits and 33 grains 2F, but due to historical value of the piece, keep shooting to a minimum.

[gunfan]

That is why, the .32 S&W Long still works. While shot placement is critical, the recovery time with the wound permits accurate placement of all the rounds.

"Shot placement is king, penetration is queen, everything else is angels dancing on the heads of pins." - Anonymous.

'Speed is fine, but accuracy is final." - Wyatt Earp. :Fire:

Scott

[9.3X62AL]

The Nagant 1895 is a bit contraption-esque, but it's an affordable recreational revolver that asks a bit more of the reloader than the 38 Special. Is it a viable self-defense system? Not my first choice, but it would beat throwing rocks or dialing 9-1-1 (Tax-Supported Dial-A-Prayer). Loaded to its potential, it's closer to the 32-20 than the 32 S&W Long.

I do like a caliber that starts with a "4" or clocks 1300 FPS for social engineering/retroactive birth control, though. 40 Short & Weak, 10mm, 45 ACP, 357 Mag. Just sayin'.

[Rio Grande]

I can understand wanting to shoot historic weapons. Heck, if I could afford it I would own a historic Gatlin gun. The thing is some of the people here are talking as if it is their main self defense or CCW gun. I just think that instead of playing around with more potent loads, that could blow up in your face litterly, that there are much more suitable firearms for this purpose. It is like using a pistol Xbow for a CCW. I have my pet guns that I would not seriously consider for selfdefense because thay are not suited to the needs.

Here again, just trying to stimulate conversation.

There is always a more suitable firearm for any purpose.
And there is always an adequate firearm.

I'm sort of 'backwoodsman' in my outlook, and a good shooting and inexpensive lightweight and durable trail gun, which can indeed serve for self defense w/ a blunt 100 gr. boolit going well over 1100 fps is a good thing.
I personally like the looks of the Nagant, and I'm glad I have mine.
Some of us can't afford a Kimber 1911 or GP-100....and I'm certain w/ my Nagant I can outshoot many people who own those or similar modern guns.

[OTThomas]

If anyone here is still interested in the .32 acp conversion cylinders I have one for sale over in Swappin n Sellin.

Thanks, Thomas

[tinkerer]

I started forming Nagant Revolver brass out of .223 rifle brass last year, but got stuck at the "turn down the belt you just made at the case web" step. Maybe I'll resurrect that project early this spring when it's still too cold and wet to go shooting, but good weather is on the horizon. It shouldn't take much of a lathe; a drill press and a flat file will probably do it. They should be a lot more durable than using .32-20 brass, and you can make them closer to the right length. (Use .30 Carbine dies to form, size, and to crimp)

Has anyone tried shooting .32 ACP's in the original cylinder? It should work, but that's an awfully long jump for the bullet.


Greetings,

I encourage you to go ahead with your project. I bought one of these revolvers a few months ago, and I've been having fun fabricating brass with .223 cases. (I used Lee 30 m1 dies).

I got the revolver from Cabelas, and when I looked at it they warned me that they didn't have the ammunition. That didn't bother me, since I planned on making the stuff anyway. I happen to have a lot of once fired .223 brass lying around, and I'd heard you can make 7.62x38r brass from it. After I'd successfully made some 7. 62 brass, I found I had a problem loading it, and I thought I'd explain how I found a solution.

I got to the same point you did ( .223 brass reformed, belt at base). It was pretty easy for me to remove the belt, because I have a lathe. I think a drill press setup would work just fine. I'd recommend supporting the base of the brass somehow, maybe with a decapping pin inserted through the primer pocked hole to keep the brass from wobbling.

The problem I ran into was in trying to use .312 bullets in the reformed .223 cases. When I seated the bullet, I got a nasty bulge in the case, and the round wouldn't chamber. I figured "no problem", I'll just resize (with 30 m1 die). Well, yes, the round chambered. But I pulled the bullet, just to see what was going on, and the portion of the bullet that had been in the case was swagged down to a diameter that was smaller than the groove diameter. The things would just rattle out of the bore, if I tried to shoot them (I didn't).

I was a bit puzzled at this point, because I'd read a number of posts that talk about using .312 bullets. I don't know for sure, but I think the 32-20 brass is thinner that the .223 brass, so you can use .312 bullets in 32-20 brass, and still be okay. I don't really know, since I've only worked with the .223 brass.

What I ended up trying was reaming the case mouth of my resized .223 brass. I used a 5/16 reamer (5/16=.3125, you can find it at FastenAll, about 12 bucks). I ran the reamer into the .223 brass only as deep as the bullet I used (.312 plated RN).

I've read a lot of posts on how to get a crimp that duplicates the factory crimp. I had no trouble at all using the Lee 30 m1 die. I seated the bullet first, and later ran the crimp with the Lee die. It left a larger diameter at the case mouth than factory brass, but in my revolver (Tula 1939) the stuff worked just fine, gas seal and all.

It may not be possible to ream your cases in a drill press, I don't know. but if not, I think you can load .308 bullets in your reformed .223 brass.

[leadshooter5]

I managed to pick up 6 boxes of Fiocchi ammo for $15 each at a gunshow, so I dropped plans to reload. The Fiocchi shoots right to the point of aim at 25 yds, but about half the cases split. Because of the gas seal, the gun stays completely clean except for running a patch thru the bore. Hoot to shoot!!

[olgandalf]

My Nagant was a Christmas gift, along with four boxes of Aguila 32 S&W long, from my non-gun-loving wife (!) After putting most of them through the Nagant, I've reloaded the brass twice with 78 gr boolits from Tn Valley. The brass swelled with first use, but none have ever split. Hits a foot wide log at 20 feet. I made some brass from 223 until I could get 32-20, which I prefer. So far I haven't accidentally crushed any of the 32-20.

[floyd]

Quite old thread, but anyway...

I just love my Russian 6“ SA target revolver TOZ 36 because it is an incredibly accurate piece of steel with an exceptionally smooth trigger. It has absolutely nothing in common with an old Nagant revolver except from using the same cartridge. I keep this hole-through-hole machine in mint condition and it won me couple of competitions so far, so this is why I would like to „keep it alive“.. Even though it is the „Iron Curtain Era“ gun, it is still used by many Slovaks for competitions with great success despite the fact there is no cheap source of the original Rusian ammo anymore. Unfortunatelly, due to the uniqueness of the case and the problems associated with reloading equipment, I do not know anybody in Slovakia reloading this ammo even though Slovak shooters reload a lot.



So, some time ago I slugged the bore, then I measured the slug and my digital calipper showed .311 in grooves (.299 in lands). I intend this boolit for reloading: Lee TL 314-90 SWC. These 90 grains SWC boollits are .314. Regarding the diameter of my bore, I guess, the best will be to size them .312. Unfortunately, LEE does not offer any sizer like that. The closest one is .311, which I actually have at home, so I modified it. I chucked the die in lathe, runned about 1500 rpm. Then wrapped some 220-240 grit emery around a dowel, polished the inner space to within about .0002", then polished lightly with 400 grit. I am going to use mixture of wheel weights and shooting range lead for casting bullets. The ballistic performance of this cartridge is moderate (up to 1100 ft/s, 250 ft.lbf, 11,000 PSI).

BTW, I bought CH4D dies for 7,62x38 Nagant Revolver recently (exceptionally well made), still waiting for the Lee TL 314-90 SWC moulds to come. Does anybody have some experience with reloading using these boolits? Since there is no good source of brass, I started to convert my once fired Russian berdan brass to boxer. Now I am looking for brass from Prvi Partizan production, and possibly Fiocchi, too.

[floyd]

Here is the photo of the original Russian cartridge and a few of the empty shells I converted from Berdan to Boxer "Religion". :wink: The original berdan primer was deprimmed by a hydraulic press, then put back upside down. Before it had been fixed by melted tin in the primer pocket, then widened using 4,3 mm drill bit and finished with a primer pocket forming tool.

106759

[texassako]

I also load for this round for something other than the usual Nagant revolver. A little snub nose pocket revolver actually. I like your TOZ. I use Privi brass and a Lee ranchdog designed .32 acp tumble lube mold I already have sized .313 with a Lee push through die. I don't need the gas seal in this revolver, but do need full length brass since the case is the cylinder throat. I use Lee .32 acp dies, neck size only with the full length .32 die, and turned down a bolt to go in the seater die to seat the bullet inside the case.

[floyd]

Thanks mate. As I said, I love my TOZ, too. I only had to replace the original ugly Russian "ergonomic" grips with my homemade grips I made out of walnut root. The original ones were uncomfortable and too small for my hand. Now the ergonomy fits like dummy. :-D I am looking forward to the LEE moulds, but so far I have no idea about the OAL, which powder and how much to put under the boolit. Since the reloading data is virtually nonexistent, I will have to borrow my friend´s Chrony to solve this out. Unfortunately here in Slovakia we do not use most of the powders you guys from the USA do. Of course, sometimes there are some Accurate, Vihtavuori, Vectan etc. powders in shops, but, because of availability and price, too, we mostly use good Czech made Explosia (Lovex) powders, which are usually used by Sellier & Bellot ammunition company. However, I have some Acc. No.2, No.9, 1680, Vectan Ba10 and Vihtavuori N340 at home, so I hope somebody will help me here at least with safe starting loads and OALs.

[9.3X62AL]

Floyd--

I greatly admire your TOZ revolver.

Accurate No. 2 can be made to work in 7.62 x 38R, much like Alliant Bullseye or Winchester 231 can be. I would start very conservatively--2.0 grains--and work up S-L-O-W-L-Y from that point. Having the chronograph to assist you will pay benefits in safety and consistency.

What I have done in seating RN bullets is to seat them with the tip-end "even" with the case mouth end. To crimp, I take the decapping assembly out of a 32 S&W Long die and run the finished cartridge about 1/10" (2.5mm) into the die--giving what I call a "contour crimp" or slight diameter reduction that nests into the Nagant system forcing cone and does not split upon firing. Accuracy has been surprisingly good from my 1916-issue Tula M-1895. Bullets do not shift under recoil influence, either.

[floyd]

9,3x62AL,

I greatly admire your "signature". I know at least one more state where your pertinent status works perfectly (even though we have Bratislava´s Castle instead of White House). :smile: I hope I was not too politically incorrect...;)

BTW, thank you for your advice, I assumed something similar (some load comparable to 7,65 Browning or .32 S&W Long). I am not sure now about the OAL, but I guess I will have to try it couple of times to get the perfect result. After seating the boolit, my 4th die closes the case over the boolit into conical shape. The result is the cartridge, which looks like the original Russian sporting ammo. I do not want to finish up with with bullet diameter less than .312, so I am a little bit afraid of boolit being tapered by this step.;)The original Russian sporting cartridges have their WC boolits seated 9,1 mm (.36") below the case mouth which is actually the the whole conical length. When I recovered the original boolits from the wood, I was quite surprised, how soft they were, possibly made out of pure lead... The Russians had probably good reasons for it, so I would like to try soft lead, too... As far as I know, with TOZ 36 they won some World Championships and were successfull on Olympics, as well.

[9.3X62AL]

The "book" lengths I see in the few data sources I have for the 7.62 x 38R Nagant hover about .01" either side of 1.520". My current brass is all Starline, which is out of print and has settled after 5 firing/sizing sequences into 1.455" lengths. I have yet to split a case mouth using the regimen I described above. I don't think the short cases fully seal the system against leakage, but the little roller gives surprising accuracy in view of its coarse single-action trigger stroke. Its double-action stroke is IMPOSSIBLE. I have chronographed a few loads from the contraption......3.0 grains of WW-231 gives about 800 FPS to the Lee 100 grain RN. The tapered cases at those pressures dislodge easily, sometimes falling free of their own weight when the ejector system is deployed.