Pp just the nose

[Wayne S]

OK, kinda weird, but since there are no dumb questions, Has anyone PP just the nose section of a bullet ??
I've got a Bbl. with a very long throat, and since I can't come near touching the lands I thought I'd try PP the nose sections of my 311299 & RG-4 up to throat Dia. that way the nose is fully supported and centered as it inters the rifling.

[zuke]

the paper act's like a jacket between the lead and steel, so there has to be contact there.

[Doughty]

Wayne,

It might work, but my question is, why not just PP the whole thing? Seems if would be just as easy. Maybe even easier. But if you do try it, let us know.

richard

[geargnasher]

Yes, why not patch the whole thing? Size the driving bands to .0015" larger than bore diameter, patch to fit the throat, and drive them like copper-jacketed bullets, no compromises.

Gear

[Wayne S]

"Why not PP the whole bullet??"
1. the throat is .309 and over .5" long
2. the bullets drop with the nose at .300-.301, and the bands at .311
3. I size & lube the bands to .309
4. the nose on the 311299 & RG-4 are .75", and the bands & check are .5"
What I'm after is the nose being .309 or as close to that as possible for support.
I'll try a few with some light loads and see how they group compared to plane noses and bases sized .309 & .310
" Ain't it always just one more thing to try"

[geargnasher]

Exactly why we mentioned it. Get a .302" push through sizer from Lee (custom) or ask Buckshot make you one for his fee and size the whole thing down. When wet-patched with two wraps of 16# paper it will be about .312" on the bands and .311" on the nose, size it .311" in a base-first sizer, apply a little lube to the patch, and seat them as long as you can. The paper will compress easily in the lands, and you shouldn't have any trouble getting them into the throat yet flush with the base of the case neck. You want a good, tight, fully-supported boolit when chambered, and as long as you can close the bolt with firm hand pressure and extract an unfired one without de-booliting it, you're good to go. It might take trying more than one paper to find the exact best fit, but that's one of the great things about the paper jacket, you can tune it to make the boolit you have fit the gun you have much of the time.

Really, I think you have an ideal chamber for PP'ing, and if you can get one of the heavy Lyman or Ideal Loverin-style boolit molds with the short nose and a gas check shank, that might work even better sized .302" or so. Skip the gas check, but having the shank makes it easier to patch and no flashing on the base after sizing them down ten thousandths.

Gear

[6.5 mike]

Wayne, I have a 0.301 sizer Buckshot made for me, catch is I wo'nt be at the house till the 8th of feb if you want to try it. I'll call you when I get in. With a 0.002 paper, you should end up at 0.310ish. I have some wrapped but do'nt remember the sizes (whole boolit).

If you try wrapping just the nose, I think I would come down on to the body about 1/8 of an inch so that some of the wrap is in the case. This may help the paper transion into the leade better & help hold the patch in place. With it engraved at the nose, the rest "should" follow when fired. I've never tried this so a WAG on my part. May be a PITA to seat without messing up the base of the patch. Never know tell you try[smilie=l:.

[303Guy]

One should never miss the opportunity to try out something new. This could work.

It may be a bit difficult to apply such a small patch. One problem will be to bind it. One solution there would be to wet the patch with a dilute glue solution. Forget angling the patch ends, just go with square. That'll make it easier to wrap. I'd think use a weak paper (printer or lined notepad). You may have a problem with sufficient muzzle velocity to separate the nose patch with cast. I don't know. Then again, a patch that is designed to stay on might work too. Tracing paper is tough enough and shrinks pretty tight. I've made tracing paper sleaves which I dried then soaked to expand and slipped onto the castings and those shrank real tight. These were sqare ended and glued. Pre-drying the glue meant that the lap did not pull apart on the boolit. That may not be necessary considering the limited amount of shrinkage required to grip a smooth nose.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[Wayne S]

"Why not PP the whole bullet??"
1. the throat is .309 and over .5" long
2. the bullets drop with the nose at .300-.301, and the bands at .311
3. I size & lube the bands to .309
4. the nose on the 311299 & RG-4 are .75", and the bands & check are .5"
What I'm after is the nose being .309 or as close to that as possible for support.
I'll try a few with some light loads and see how they group compared to plane noses and bases sized .309 & .310
" Ain't it always just one more thing to try"

So you'll don't see a major problem in sizing a WW alloy .311 bullet down to .301 ??
might be easier to get a 1 or 2 cavity Lee 7 MM mold and drill it out to .301-.302 ???????????
And won't the grease grooves on a Loverin bullet collapse with that much sizing down ?? Guess it doesn't matter when PPed ??

[geargnasher]

Wayne, me and lots of others here do it all the time. Wouldn't have mentioned it if it hadn't been proven to work. Size it .309 first in your base-first sizer (no lube), then roll them on a case lube pad and shove them through a .302" (or whatever is right for your gun) push-through sizer.

Gear

[pdawg_shooter]

I size .311/.312 down to .301 in one pass. I also size .459/.460 down to .451 in on pass. Not a big deal.

[Wayne S]

Thanks ALL , I'll give it a try

[nanuk]

One should never miss the opportunity to try out something new. This could work.

It may be a bit difficult to apply such a small patch. One problem will be to bind it. One solution there would be to wet the patch with a dilute glue solution. Forget angling the patch ends, just go with square. That'll make it easier to wrap. I'd think use a weak paper (printer or lined notepad). You may have a problem with sufficient muzzle velocity to separate the nose patch with cast. I don't know. Then again, a patch that is designed to stay on might work too. Tracing paper is tough enough and shrinks pretty tight. I've made tracing paper sleaves which I dried then soaked to expand and slipped onto the castings and those shrank real tight. These were sqare ended and glued. Pre-drying the glue meant that the lap did not pull apart on the boolit. That may not be necessary considering the limited amount of shrinkage required to grip a smooth nose.

Good luck and keep us posted.

wouldn't wet patching bind to itself like normal?

if the nose patch stays put with the regular boolit patched, why do you think there would be an issue keeping it on the nose? the paper doesn't bunch up with a borerider now, does it? so it SHOULD act the same??

just thinking out loud here.

[303Guy]

Wet patching will bind some papers just fine. Papers that don't bind wet would need a little help. Normally, just the twisted tail would hold the patch tight and the angled trailing edge does the rest. With dry patching and a short tail 'skirt', I glue between the overhanging laps and that works fine for me. It also supplies the moisture to make the fold I get. Nose only patching would need stronger medicine I should think.

[nanuk]

... Nose only patching would need stronger medicine I should think.

I'm wondering how one could patch with tobacco juice, to get that "Stronger Medicine"

[Nobade]

I'm wondering how one could patch with tobacco juice, to get that "Stronger Medicine"

Sure would make for interesting smelling ammo.

[Old Coot]

I tried it but it gave my barrel cancer.

[barrabruce]

You may be a good candidate for shootzen loading.
Seat you bullet then place a case load of powder in an unsized case in there.
Does work.

If I go the my throat size I de-bullet or the case won't extract. weak extraction on my gun.
Then again it seems to make a better seal.
As my chamber/ barrel fouls then they just get tighter to a point of equalibrium with the fouling.
Then you can adjust seatingr depth or try to get the right size for your gun.
Depends if you want to shoot many or just some I suppose.
all jsut playing with stuff I suppose.
Barra