New 44 Mag Brass Length

[Themoose]

Sorry Fellas if I have this in the wrong forum, but I didn't see one that quite fit my question.. anyway here goes... I've spent the last few days straightening out part of my reloading area, separating and cleaning brass has been a big part of it... I thought it a good idea to separate by make at first for consistency, but then found out I had a huge gap in length when I started on 44 mag's... now part of that is my fault... I had Veral make me a mold for my two 44 mag rifles(using the bore and chamber dimensions).. then found out later that both were limited by the magazines(one a Rem 788 and the other a Ruger 77). In an attempt to maximize accuracy and get a good crimp in the crimping groove I shortened the brass on a number of them...(this is what got me to the sorting by length project)... but the kicker came as I checked out some of the Brand New Remington Brass that I just opened... most of it measured 1.278 or so... some of the older unfired brass I had, measured up to 1.290... some of the manuals I have checked out suggest that brass be trimmed to 1.280 while showing the case length spec to be 1.285.. It probably doesn't make a pimple on a gnat's *** in difference, but I thought I would ask others... I'm thinking on setting a length of 1.275 for all of the brass except for those shortened already... I'm not usually this anal, but I am trying to get rid of that flier that seems to spoil a five shot group... thinking that crimp tension may be a culprit and lenght in a straight wall case would be impacted on it.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts,

TheMoose

[Gunnut 45/454]

I'd leave those shorter the the 2.280" as they are shot an let them grow. Trim the longer cases to the 2.280"! But thats just me.

[Shuz]

I shoot thousands and thousands of .44 mag ammo every year and have never ever seen the need to trim any of my brass. I've found that case neck tension is far, far more important than any crimping and therefore don't pay any attention to case length.

[Themoose]

Thanks fellas for the feedback... I was getting too anal it seems...but, if nothing else, I now sorted the cases... the extremely ones that I shortened to shoot with the bullet crimped into the crimping groove are the only ones that that I think I need to concern myself with...think I will either pitch them, or blacken them to differentiate them and the others...

Again, thanks for your thoughts,

TheMoose

[bobthenailer]

Remember to ck your 44 mag , max brass length after sizing as it will usuall grow in length buy 5 to 10 thousands of a inch after sizing . then trim your brass to spec.

[Mal Paso]

I learned a Lot from all the once fired brass I've picked up or been given.

Most 44 brass manufacturers keep length to +/- .0025 or a range of .005. Between manufacturers the range is well over .020. The shortest I've found is Magtech at about 1.271 . I get an average of close to 30 firings before the case cracks at the mouth. My 44 brass doesn't grow or shrink much at all. I don't think you can get a consistent crimp without consistent length. I trim all my brass to 1.271 before I load it the first time and don't touch it again till the mouth splits and it gets cut down to Special.

Just got an Elmer Keith article this week and he says he trimmed his brass to get a good crimp. He was big on neck tension too.

[durant7]

Odd that there is a relatively new thread on the very topic I am researching. Subject gun is a new, sorry, 336 Marlin CB in 44 Rem Mag. I shoot CLA with it and I am working on getting all my brass sorted. For not other reason than being cheap I am using the some 350 pcs of range brass. My 429215 cast bullets lubed without GC. It works for me.

When I was loading last year I could visually SEE that the crimps varied mostly due to the fact some shells were longer than others. I researched the matter and learned to get consistent crimps, I would need to trim to length all my brass. I borrowed a trimmer and after measuring a bunch of shells, I decided to set the trimmer for 1.280. 30% failed to get even a kiss from the trimmer. 60% got a kiss and 10% got a full trim.

The shorts will be loaded for practice and the other brass sorted by headstamp, weighed. Maybe the shorts will grow with use. I fear my load is so low pressure not much will change.

To me, trim to length has a significant impact on crimp. Crimp I would think would have a significant impact on case neck tension.

Shuz, how can you state (indirectly) that crimp and thus case length is completely independent of case neck tension? I am confused, please fill me in.

After some searching I find this is a pretty good link. I think they are less related than when I wrote the post but I think case length still has some contribution to case neck tension....or at least when you get high on the neck.

Case Neck/Tension post (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=129213&highlight=case+neck+tension)

Thanks!

[Shuz]

Shuz, how can you state (indirectly) that crimp and thus case length is completely independent of case neck tension? I am confused, please fill me in.



What I'm trying to say is that case neck tension,even on cases that are somewhat shorter than the rest, is much more important to prevent boolit jump and obtain good ignition, than any amount of crimp. I've proven this to myself with the high recoiling 329PD. I used to get bullets jumping crimp even tho I utilized a Lee Factory Crimp die, in a separate operation from my Dillon SDB. Then I changed to a very small in diameter,I believe it is .423, expander plug for my Dillon SDB, and the problem was solved. I no longer have to worry about getting a heavy crimp.
Another way of saying it is....to get a good consistant crimp, all cases need to be the same length. I did that and still the boolits jumped crimp. When I went to a smaller expander plug, the boolits stayed put and I didn't have to worry about case length,within reason of course.
Does that help?

[durant7]

Thanks for the detailed application info. I am learning reloading and wanted to be sure I took away the right info. I am shooting tame loads, 5.8g of Titegroup (http://durant7.blogspot.com/search?q=44+titegroup) from a lever gun and you are fighting something else.

My observation was, long brass, when crimped would actually cause the top of the case to bulge out just under the crimp as there was no room for the "extra" brass to go. Bulge is poor word choice. Shorter brass would lay right in the cannelure whereas long brass would bulge out and then lay right down along the neck of case/base of bullet. This called my attention to the fact that I needed to borrow a case trimmer and get everything to the right case length. I did and now look forward to having more consistent hand loads.

About a third of the brass did not make 1.280 so I hope to just shoot it for practice and hope it grows by the EOY when I plan to run it all again to 1.280. Or that is the plan.

[Shuz]

Thanks for the clarification of your problem. Looks to me like trimming you brass is sure appropriate for your needs; but just not mine!