Lee Hollow Base 405gr 45cal bullet

[GMW]

I have been loading BPCR bullets for my Shilo Sharps Military with great results.
I have a 45-70 original trap door that has been in my family longer than I have.
The bore is okay with some pitting. I forgot to mention that I only use BP for my BP rifles. Sounds correct, right? Well, I have a new Lee Hollow Base mold an I am wondering if I load these bullets in the same manner as solid base bullets. I use a fiber wad over some lightly compressed powder. Will I still need a fiber wad between the bullet base and the powder? How do you guys do it? I am hoping that this bullet will give me enough accuracy for short range deer hunting.

[jbrower]

Personally, I don't use an overpowder wad with the HB bullet. I follow the J. S. Wolf book's loading advice and use a 60 grain charge of FFg with the Lee 405gn HB bullet. I'll let others chime in on how/why I'm wrong.

[Don McDowell]

It'll end up being like most any other load, you'll have to try different combinations and see what the rifle likes.

[StrawHat]

I load a HB bullet with out the wad. Maybe I should try it with one to see how it shoots. Anyway, here is a link to the book by Spence Wolf.

http://www.4570book.info/

Some of the info is dated and other info is no longer "in style" but all of it is interesting and useful.

[NickSS]

I have loaded them both ways (with and without a wad) and found little difference in short range accuracy out to 200 yards when I finally got the powder charge right. For deer almost any load will work as long as the bullet has enough accuracy for your desires.

[13Echo]

For the 405 gr Lee HB bullet in my Trapdoor I cast out of 30:1 alloy and load over 59grs of FFg compressed enough to allow a firm crimp over the beginning of the ogive of the bullet. No wad, Emmert's lube with lanolin and Rem 91/2 primer. It about duplicates the armory carbine load. At least in my rifle the crimp seems to be necessary. I suspect it allows enough pressure to build to expand the bullet to fit the rifling before the bullet enters the rifling. Burns cleaner and far more accurate. Your results may vary but that is what works in my rifle and in a friends.

Jerry Liles

[GMW]

I suspect it allows enough pressure to build to expand the bullet to fit the rifling before the bullet enters the rifling. Burns cleaner and far more accurate. Your results may vary but that is what works in my rifle and in a friends.

Jerry Liles

Sounds like a plan to me! Thank you all for your suggestions. I really didn't think a wad was necessary but it dose not hurt to ask. This forum is one of the most informative and friendly group of people out there. Thank you!
Gerry

[Chill Wills]

GMW, You are getting very good advise here, especially to not use a wad with the hollow base bullet. Accuracy can be poor using the wad because the wad may get crammed up in the hollow base and not only exposes the edge of the base when fired but in some instants can carry the wad with the bullet to the target resulting in very poor accuracy.
A very flat bullet base is an aid to accuracy, or a good symmetrical hollow base with square outside corner work well too in flight.
A wad stuck to the bullets flat base is like having a grossly out of square base. Even worse is a wad "wadded" up inside the hollow base. These bullets do not fly straight.

For deer accuracy, a very good load can be had with no wad and the bullet seated on the compressed powder.

Just my opinion,

[Simonpie]

My trapdoor sounds a lot like yours, family hangabout with light bore pitting.

I have never been able to get it to shoot well with a 405 grain bullet. My groups tightened up a lot with a 500 grain +. Even then, we're still talking 15 shot groups of 7 inches at 200 yards. Not too hot.

Also, play around with 1st shot, cold-clean barrel. Mine is highly affected, but I just shoot foulers until she steadies out.

Good luck, have fun.

[Lead pot]

If this is truly a hollow base bullet and not a cup base or dish base use that bullet for a muzzle loader.
A hollow base bullet does not fair well using a wad of a hard compressed powder load because the skirt will get damaged or blown out with a heavy charge.
A little advice...a roll crimp will kill accuracy using a lead bullet.

LP.

[13Echo]

The Lee 405 HB is a copy of the original 1873 govt bullet for the 45-70 and does quite well in the old soldiers especially if the mould casts a bit large (mine comes in at 0.460"). The crimp seems to be necessary with the lighter, carbine loads, to insure the bullet bumps up to fill the rifling. The original loads were heavily crimped. The Lee 45-70 dies do more of a taper crimp that follows the ogive of the bullet rather than a dig in the lead roll crimp so I use the Lee to form the crimp. I do notice a large increase in accuracy with the crimp and this bullet. The 500gr govt bullet does fine with or without the crimp, apparently due to its greater inertia and the 70gr powder charge. At least that has been my experience with three Trapdoor Springfields. Your results may vary. For loading the old soldier I use 5 dies - 1) sizer (Lee works just fine) 2) expander (using a Buffalo Arms expander button for the larger diameter bullets) - 3) powder compression (Buffalo Arms again) - 4) Seater (Redding or Hornady) - and 5) crimper (Lee). An expansion and powder compression plug for the Lee 45-70 dies can be had from Wolf's Western Traders for $9 as well as the indispensable book on shooting the Springfield, "Loading Cartridges for Original 45-70 Springfield"

http://www.4570book.info/


Jerry Liles