Modern Browning 1885 ??s

[Markbo]

I have a modern 1885 - Browning - in .45-70. Beautiful gun. I have never reloaded for it and need to start while my eyesight still allows for using the customer installed vernier sights - maybe!

I hate to put a scope on such a graceful gun, but it may have to happen. But I'll worry about that later. What loads can someone that has one of these recommend? I have several different cast and jacketed bullets and have no idea what the twist rate is so I don't know what weight bullets it might favor.

I am a smokeless powder only kind of guy so any guidance is much appreciated.
Thanks
Mark

[EDG]

Try a 500 grain bullet with the nose diameter a close fit in the bore and the diameter of the driving bands at .460 to .461. Use 23 to 25 grains of 4227, 5744 or my preference SR4759.

The alloy should be about 20 to 1. If your rifle is the BPCR it will be nice to shoot. If your rifle is one of the lighter versions get a lighter bullet and a little more SR4759.

[peerlesscowboy]

I'm pretty sure the twist rate is 1 in 20"

[NickSS]

My favorite smokeless powder load with any 45-70 that I own is 27 gr of AA5744 and any bullet from 300 to 500 gr sized to .459. Shoots good in all my rifles.

[ph4570]

My Browning BPCR 45-70 is quite fond of a 425 gr (Accurate mold AM461425) air-cooled WW boolit sized to 0.460, lubed with Felix and propelled with 29 grains of 4198.

[myfriendis410]

I too would recommend IMR 4198 behind a 500 gr. bullet. I have settled on 27.5 gr.

For J bullets, the Remington 405 grainer works quite well and there's a wealth of data to load for your rifle.

[Chill Wills]

I am not sure which Browning you are describing when you say "modern 1885 - Browning - in .45-70"
If it is the "BPCR" with Badger barrel that all BPCR's have, the twist will be 1 turn in 18".

The BPCR will be most accurate with the 400gr to 575gr bullets. The lighter bullets may shoot well enough to keep you happy for your needs but will not have the accuracy of the longer well designed target bullets.

[Markbo]

I'm sorry fellahs, I should have been more clear. By modern I simply meant not an antique. Obviously Browning didn't make them in the olden days, but mine was built in 1994. It is not a BPCR. Just a plain old (though very pretty!) Model 1885 High Wall.

So should this one prefer the lighter range of cast and jacketed bullets over the 500gr range? FWIW I added a Marbles sight on the wrist. I know, I know... it's not mounted to metal but I am hoping this will not be that big a problem.

If I DO find there is too much shift with weather/temperature change I will probably remove it and just leave a blued plate in in'ts place and add a scope.

[Chill Wills]

The tang sight might be fine for fun shooting. Why not try it. I am with you on this point.
Your rifle has the 20/1 twist as was said by someone else. It will handle a greater range of bullets weights.

[Gunlaker]

I'm sorry fellahs, I should have been more clear. By modern I simply meant not an antique. Obviously Browning didn't make them in the olden days, but mine was built in 1994. It is not a BPCR. Just a plain old (though very pretty!) Model 1885 High Wall.

So should this one prefer the lighter range of cast and jacketed bullets over the 500gr range? FWIW I added a Marbles sight on the wrist. I know, I know... it's not mounted to metal but I am hoping this will not be that big a problem.

If I DO find there is too much shift with weather/temperature change I will probably remove it and just leave a blued plate in in'ts place and add a scope.

That one will be a 1:20 twist them. Mine likes a 405gr bullet with 25gr of SR-4759.

You might be interested to know that Mr. Browning invented the first version, although it was modified by Winchester. He sold his version for a while before the design was purchased by Winchester. As you know, the Japanese version is a wee bit different, but a fine rifle for sure.

Chris.

[oldred]

You might be interested to know that Mr. Browning invented the first version, although it was modified by Winchester. He sold his version for a while before the design was purchased by Winchester. As you know, the Japanese version is a wee bit different, but a fine rifle for sure.Chris.



Wee bit different? Actually about the only thing the same is the model 1885 designation! These are two completely different rifles, they share only a vague outward appearance and the internal parts design is not even close. They are of course a falling block design (but then so is a Ruger no.1) but nothing internally is the same and it really is a bit of an "Apples to Oranges" comparison between these two designs.

As you also pointed out the real original Browning design is not the same as the old Winchesters we are so fond of because the original Winchester 1885 only used the basic operating principle of Browning's masterful idea, looking at the actual Browning design reveals the rifles he first built and sold in Utah are hardly recognizable as a model 1885 Winchester either original or modern version.

Don't misunderstand me I am not in any way knocking the new Winchester/Browning designs and they are beautiful, exceptionally strong and very functional rifles with many improvements over the original model 1885 but the older 1885s and the newer models are as different as night and day.

[McLintock]

I've had 3 of those, a standard 1885 with shotgun butt, no tang; a Traditional Hunter with the cresent butt and tang sight and the BPCR. All shot really well with 23 gr of 5744 and a 405 gr plain base bullet, but I used BP mostly in the BPCR.
McLintock

[Gunlaker]

Wee bit different? Actually about the only thing the same is the model 1885 designation!

I was just being facetious :-). There are definitely a number of designs based on the original. The 1885 based rifles are my favorites (except on the days when the Sharps 1874 is my favorite :-) . I've got a few different versions including some originals, a couple of C. Sharps 1885s, and two of the Browning rifles.

I like them all but prefer the originals or the C. Sharps versions due to the ease with which they can be disassembled for cleaning.

The Browning 1885 is definitely a nice rifle. I wish they were available with double set triggers though!

Chris.

[bigted]

load wise here is my smokless favorite. 34 grains of rl-7...fill the rest of the case with dry cornmeal to the base of where the boolit will be seated...prime with a cci 200 or other large rifle primer...i load these in remington cases...a 400ish boolit lubed with a good lube.

this load will spin a dollar size disk at 100 in my hunter everytime. also this is a very good load with a remington 405 grain flat point.

have fun with your rifle.

[Markbo]

Hmm... should I use a filler for jacketed and cast loads? I have never done that in .45=70 for my Marlin Guide Gun.

[Chill Wills]

Fillers........... Hmmm. If ever you can do the same thing a different way and not have to use a filler, I would. I've used them and just try to avoid them. Too many other powder choices.

Just one man's opinion......

[oldred]

Too many other powder choices.

Just one man's opinion......



Make that two!

Too many powder choices is the way I looked at it too and I found it's easy to achieve the same velocities using the 405 grain bullet with full or nearly full cases usually with less pressure. Examples of full case loads using the 400 grain jacketed bullet from the Hodgdon site.


H4895 @ 1859 FPS at only 26,500 CUP = 55 grain compressed load.

Varget @ 1845 FPS at only 25,000 CUP = 55 grain compressed load.



There are several other full case loads but these two have become my favorite for the 45/70 and I have even been using them in the longer 45/90 case with good results.




These loads are offered as an example and are accurate to the best of my knowledge but should anyone want to try them please VERIFY them by consulting a good manual before loading!!!!!!!

[ammohead]

My 1885 browning sounds like yours, no tang, octagon bbl, beautiful rifle. It most definetely prefers 405 gr rcbs boolits to any 500gr I have tried. Full cases of powder may be better than fillers, but I would bet that in the long run you will prefer loads closer to 1400 fps over those exceeding 1800 fps. Just a hunch.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

I've had an original Winchester in 45-70 for many years now and have shot it regularly with smokeless and Lyman 457124-a 405 round nose. I have used various powders and usually stayed at around 1200-1300 fps which is the original speed that 45-70's were driven at. Its fairly tolerable...recoil wise and you can tinker with the loading...up or down a bit to find what gives better accuracy. I once got a memo recommendation from the NRA technical staff for 53 grains of 3031 as a performance or hunting load....at around 1700+ fps and I tried exactly 2 rounds. It would stop a fully loaded charging Greyhound bus and the curved buttplate on my Winny showed no mercy. 500 grain bullets are or can be even more cruel. If you experiment with different powders you can determine what works best with the 405 grainers and a scope will/may not be necessary. LLS

[Markbo]

Yessir I believe you are both right. It's funny... I like big recoil. Just always have. Big rifles or big sixguns, I just love it. .375 H&H seems like no big deal to me and scares the bejeebers out of some grown men I know. But as I've gotten over 50, sitting and shooting boxes of shoulder busters from a bench becomes less and less fun.

Those old sports injuries like bad throwing shoulder pop up at the worst times [smilie=s: and I'm too old to learn how to shoot near as good left handed! I'm sure I'll tinker at both ends. Always nice to have a plinking/practice load and a sure stopper to hunt with - though I honestly cannot imagine a Texas sized white tail or average sized hog laughing off a 405gr bullet at 1300fps. Not too energetic from a rilfe standpoint, but a helluva lot compared to handgun ammo and I have dropped BIG hogs in their tracks with less power out of handguns.

That old big bullets and moderate velocities thing... works for me!

[Ed in North Texas]

Yessir I believe you are both right. It's funny... I like big recoil. Just always have. Big rifles or big sixguns, I just love it. .375 H&H seems like no big deal to me and scares the bejeebers out of some grown men I know. But as I've gotten over 50, sitting and shooting boxes of shoulder busters from a bench becomes less and less fun.

Those old sports injuries like bad throwing shoulder pop up at the worst times [smilie=s: and I'm too old to learn how to shoot near as good left handed! I'm sure I'll tinker at both ends. Always nice to have a plinking/practice load and a sure stopper to hunt with - though I honestly cannot imagine a Texas sized white tail or average sized hog laughing off a 405gr bullet at 1300fps. Not too energetic from a rilfe standpoint, but a helluva lot compared to handgun ammo and I have dropped BIG hogs in their tracks with less power out of handguns.

That old big bullets and moderate velocities thing... works for me!

I've been thinking recently of setting up a traditional English firing point. For their large caliber, high recoil rifles they set up a rest at standing height. Removes all the problems which come with sitting and absorbing the recoil, besides being more like conditions under which the rifle will be used. I'm not real recoil sensitive, but there is no sense in punishing my body any more than is necessary.

[Markbo]

I've asked for that at the range I go to and they won't do it. Say nobody but me ever asks for it. I'll betcha if they had one a heckuva lot of guys would sure use it!

[Ed in North Texas]

I've asked for that at the range I go to and they won't do it. Say nobody but me ever asks for it. I'll betcha if they had one a heckuva lot of guys would sure use it!

I've been considering making an "add on" which would latch on to the benches at my club, adding enough height for me. I do have a single point with 1/4" angled steel plate backstop for cast boolits at 100 yards at home, which will probably get the first try at this, when I get a round tuit.