What the RB's are made of

[frnkeore]

I collected a black powder frame from a friend and a 1902 frame from Kenn Womack. A friend on the ASSRA site sent the steel into metallurical place where he used to work.

I got the results today. I put them in a Excel format so you can compare the elements.

It's not like any modern day steel but, it does appear to be steel and not cast iron, there isn't enough carbon in it. Whether it's cast or forged I can't say.

I listed all the elements that had a percentage of .01 or more or that are common elements in steel. If anyone would like the other elements PM me.

Something that I found curious was the Nitrogen and Calcium content in the BP frame. That frame had a lot of small cracks in it. Any ideas there?

Something that I over looked and found in re-reading the results is that the 1902 frame has .030% As/Arsenic where the BP has none. there is actually a little hard bullet mix in the 1902, Lead .022, Antimony .025 and Arsenic .030.

Anyway, Thank you, Mike, Kenn and Tony. i really do appreciate the help that you've been in discovering what the differences are.

One thing for sure is that it gets rid of the Nickel steel idea (myth) for the smokeless frames.

Now, what do you all think? Does anyone have a way to do tensile and yield strength on these ingredients?

Remington RB Black Powder Frame

Nitrogen/Carbon/Manganese/Phosphrous/Sulfur/Nickel/Chromium/Silicon/Tungsten/Iron

N /--------/ C /---/ Mn /--/ P /----/ S /---/ Ni /--/ Cr /---/ Si /-- / W /--/ Fe
0.1317/0.2048/0.0285/0.022/0.0068/0.0017/0.0115/0.1381/0.013/99.31

Pb/lead Sb/Antimony Ca/Calcium
0.0083 /-/ 0.0148 /-/ 0.0267


Remington RB 1902 Frame

N /--------/ C /---/ Mn /--/ P /----/ S /---/ Ni /--/ Cr /---/ Si /-- / W /--/ Fe
0.0015-/0.154-/0.853-/0.091-/0.073-/0.003-/0.001-/0.038-/0.013-/98.65

Pb/lead Sb/Antimony Ca/Calcium
0.0220 /-/ 0.0250 /-/ 0.0003

I hope it's not to cunfusing but, I had to space out with the - and / to get the letters over the numbers.

Frank

[school of mines]

Interesting chemistries!! I am suprised at the low Manganese in the BP frame. The Nitrogen levels in the BP frame are off the chart. Makes me wonder if it is Bessemer steel.

[frnkeore]

One of the guys on the ASSRA form (seems to know his stuff) believes that the Nitrogen is the result of case hardening. I did some more checking and it seems that the 1902 steel falls approx. between 1018 (mild steel) and A105, steel used to make steel pipe.

He says that Manganese was fairly new in 1900 and was just starting to be used to strengthen steel. He also believes that both are Bessemer Steel.

You can check out his reply on the ASSRA form. I believe that he is a retired engineer.

Frank