500 S&W and barrel life

[bjeffv]

Recently I have noticed the portion of the barrel right next to the cylinder is becoming slightly porous. It does not go all the way down the barrel its just the first 1/8th inch.

I have shot it maybe 300 times with nothing but a 350 gr hornady or berrys plated bullets with one grain over minimum lil' gun powder.

This is a performance center version too. Is this kind of erosion common? or is my barrel from a soft batch?

Anyone else with 500s notice this?

I have tried to contact S&W customer service but they keep giving me the run around.

[44man]

You will get erosion in any revolver at the edges of the forcing cone.
The .500 is not a whole lot worse then a .44 unless you are shooting a lot more high pressure loads.
The .454 is worse then a .45 and the .460 is more worse.
It will be operating pressure. The force of the gas out of the gap is where it starts.

[stubshaft]

It is not unusual, like 44man said it is nothing more than erosion. The only thing that I know of that will stop it is if you have a tungsten forcing cone. Then again the only people who used to do this was Freedom Arms and I don't think they offer it anymore.

[bjeffv]

That kinda makes sense. But this is happening already at the 300 round mark, does that seem early? And will it progressively worsen the more I shoot, or does it reach a point and stop?

The pressure of the load I am using is right at where factory loads are.

The only other revolver i have shot that much is a python 357 that has 500 rounds thru it, no signs of erosion.

I have an anaconda (44) with 100 rounds thru it, no signs of erosion.

[suba]

Have you used LG in the Python and Anaconda ? IMO LG burns too hot. I turned mine into fertilizer a long time ago. Others might disagree, but my favorite is 4227. I'll take single base any day over double base ( nitro ) like LG. Bob Baker with FA advised to stop using LG. I've heard warrantee might even be canceled if LG is used.

Personally I'd change powder in your 500....

[44man]

That kinda makes sense. But this is happening already at the 300 round mark, does that seem early? And will it progressively worsen the more I shoot, or does it reach a point and stop?

The pressure of the load I am using is right at where factory loads are.

The only other revolver i have shot that much is a python 357 that has 500 rounds thru it, no signs of erosion.

I have an anaconda (44) with 100 rounds thru it, no signs of erosion.
I went back and seen you are using Lil'Gun. Get away from it fast. It is HOT and might be the problem. The powder has no deterrent and the flame is a cutting torch.

[bjeffv]

it very well could be the gun powder. Ok it must most definetely be the powder!!!

for the 357 i have only run factory ammo of sorts

For the anaconda its been blue dot loads, i believe its .5 grain over minimum.

[subsonic]

Google it and you will see quite a few sob stories linked to that powder. Someone somewhere on the web said it was only certain lots, but Hodgdon never issued a recall or bulletin on any lots, so I doubt it.

[freedom475]

Seems that everytime someone is warned about LILGUN and magnum pistols, 5 guys will jump in and try to tell you how great it is:groner:

+1 on NEVER use LIL GUN powder in a magnum revolver!!! The only aplication for the powder that I found was the 22Hornet..2400 would break my cases but the LILGUN would not, and I could get more fps from the LG in the hornet.

I had some pretty heavy forcing cone and cylinder face errosion on my Super Blackhawk (after around +10,000 rounds, none of them LILGUN)...but not really down into the barrel. The cylinder face had holes around the throughts and the cone looked like it had had a triangle file taken to it.

I tried LILgun in my 500 and found that the barrel got way hot in just a few rounds. It seemed to recoil harder and cause more of a concusion than H110, but when I ran it over the chrono the LG was actually slower.

[bjeffv]

It makes sense that its lil gun to me now. When shooting the gun towards low light the whole gun from the cylinder forward is engulfed in a flame ball. I thought it was normal for a while.

I will probably have a new barrel put on it, after I run what rounds I have left thru it. Once I get a new barrel I will switch to a different gun powder.

[freedom475]

Well I don't know if a new barrel would be called for...the errosion is inevitable anyway and it seems to slow down or stop after a certain point is reached...you may have just gotten to that point a lot sooner than normal.

I have around 3or400 rounds through my new 500 and I had to go check it after reading your thread...the cone on mine is still very sharp, with no signs of errosion. My loads have all been 296 and Unique with 350xtp's and 450GC cast.

[stubshaft]

Ruger had the same problem with 296 in their 357SM. After only 5K rounds thru it my forcing cone was starting to crack and the top strap had a groove of about .110" cut into it. My 375SM didn't fare much better but they both shot well enough to continue to compete with.

[Whitworth]

You will get erosion in any revolver at the edges of the forcing cone.
The .500 is not a whole lot worse then a .44 unless you are shooting a lot more high pressure loads.
The .454 is worse then a .45 and the .460 is more worse.
It will be operating pressure. The force of the gas out of the gap is where it starts.

The .460 and .500 Smiths operate at the same pressures -- the SAAMI spec is the same at just under 62,000 psi.

[John Ross]

The .460 and .500 Smiths operate at the same pressures -- the SAAMI spec is the same at just under 62,000 psi.

Yes, but the .460 is more often shot with 2000+ FPS loads, and such rounds are rougher on forcing cones than loads in the 1600 FPS range, even at the same pressure. And the .460 is almost always shot with jacketed bullets.

I have .500s with over 2000 rounds each through them, all at 50,000 PSI or above, without seeing what the OP describes. However, all those rounds were cast bullets and NONE were loaded with Lil Gun.

I have heard NOTHING good about Lil Gun in magnum revolvers and would avoid it entirely. WAY too many reports of guns getting really hot in just a few rounds, as well as the FC issues you describe.

[44man]

It makes sense that its lil gun to me now. When shooting the gun towards low light the whole gun from the cylinder forward is engulfed in a flame ball. I thought it was normal for a while.

I will probably have a new barrel put on it, after I run what rounds I have left thru it. Once I get a new barrel I will switch to a different gun powder.
No need for a barrel change, it will not hurt anything.
I would be pulling boolits though. There is no sense to continue.
Lil'Gun was made for the .410 and works just fine. It is a powder taken out of context.

[Paulinski]

I'm also taking note of this. I shot some 600-700gr boolits loaded with LiL-Gun.

I never really noticed the gun getting hotter than loads with H-110 as I usually shot few of those each session.

I'll examine the forcing cones on my 500s when I get home from work but I'll stop using that powder in favor of H-110 for magnum loads.

[Whitworth]

Ruger had the same problem with 296 in their 357SM. After only 5K rounds thru it my forcing cone was starting to crack and the top strap had a groove of about .110" cut into it. My 375SM didn't fare much better but they both shot well enough to continue to compete with.

They only started seeing flame cutting when people started loading light bullets fast -- something it was never designed for. With heavy bullets at moderate velocities, the maximum apparently doesn't exhibit flame cutting.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

IMO LG burns too hot. I turned mine into fertilizer a long time ago.

Bob Baker with FA advised to stop using LG. I've heard warrantee might even be canceled if LG is used.

fertilizer ??? that's too bad.
I've also had great luck with LG in 22 hornet, just like freedom375 said.
I'm sure it works great in 410 too.
Jon

[shotman]

Check the bottom of top strap too
LG will get you 2 reloads in a 410 hull. I trashed it too

[44man]

They only started seeing flame cutting when people started loading light bullets fast -- something it was never designed for. With heavy bullets at moderate velocities, the maximum apparently doesn't exhibit flame cutting.
I had the Ruger max and shot only 200 gr rifle bullets for IHMSA with 4227. The top strap got cut fast but would only go so far.
It was not just a light bullet thing, it seems to be more the amount of powder, pressure and gas venting.
Lil'Gun might have cut the frame in half! :kidding:
Doesn't S&W have a replaceable insert on some guns?
Freedom had an insert in the forcing cone but it was too expensive and might have popped loose on a few guns.
Just what will a .460 do with light bullets at better then 2000 fps?
There is no way to prevent forcing cone edges from getting cut. Forget it. The hardest metal on earth will get cut.
Watch them cut super hard armor plate with water jets and tell me the cone will not be cut.

[freedom475]

I think pressure and its curve plays a big roll in the cutting as well. I know the cutting can be done with heavy cast boolits at slow speed as well.....I put a real nice kerf in the top strap of my FA83 475L with TiteGroup (before I knew better), using 430gr.LFN's at 1000fps +/-.
I seem to have no problems with Unique and have shot lots of it over the years.

[Whitworth]

Doesn't S&W have a replaceable insert on some guns?


I believe the scandium framed revolvers have the replaceable inserts.

[Markbo]

And I have not seen any reason that they could not be used in other guns. They are dirt simple little pieces.