Question for 45-70 fans......

[3006guns]

Many years ago, I inherited several boxes of 45-70 brass. I'm not totally unfamiliar with the cartridge but had no need to reload it..until recently.

My son just bought a Marlin Guide Gun and I sent him three boxes of new Winchester brass. While sorting through the boxes I realized I had several with government markings, used as blanks for a line throwing gun. These cases are all the semi-balloon head type, a slight improvement over the old standard balloon head. They appear to be in excellent shape, almost new. Would I be correct in that they'd be adequate for low/moderate pressure loads, say in the 1873 trapdoor pressure range, using smokeless? They show no signs of having been used with black powder, i.e. no residue, corrosion, etc. Nice, clean looking old brass.

These cases would be for my own use, not given to anyone who might load them like a solid head case.

[elk hunter]

The military thought they were safe enough for their use and I don't think they were loaded with anything but smokeless. I used some of them years ago when I first started loading 45-70 and had no problems. I wouldn't want to use any old brass for top end loads for a Ruger #1, but personally I wouldn't be afraid of using them for most low to medium loads.

[3006guns]

Thanks Elk Hunter.......that's pretty much what I thought. Just wanted a little reassurance.

[Boerrancher]

I would not shoot them and here is why. We all know that brass work hardens, but what most don't know is that it hardens just sitting around. If these are truly semi-ballon head, then they are most likely no less than 100 years old. Brass that has just sat around for a long time is more dangerous than over worked brass simply because it shows no signs of being too hard. Even with a light load, the last thing you want is for a piece of that brass to turn loose, a bunch of hot expanding gas into the receiver of the GG. I have seen good lever guns trashed because the head cracked on an old piece of brass. As a matter of fact it was a Mod 99 Sav in 243win. that was the last one I saw the pieces of. The brass was an old 308 military piece from the 60's that had been resized to 243. The head cracked from the primer to the extractor groove sending a high pressure jet of gas past the bolt face and into the receiver. I saw the piece of brass after the event and the pieces of gun. Old brass is not worth messing with. Hang on to those old semi-balloon head pieces and use them as a conversation piece but don't load them ever.

Best wishes,

Joe

P.S.
You only have to be wrong once.

[lbaize3]

I have a large number of the gov 45-70 brass, purchased from Weidners. I have used them in my trapdoor with 5744 powder and cast boolits from 400 to 500 grains. I have reloaded some of these cases as many as five times each with no problems. Use them and enjoy....

These cases are not very old. We were using those single shot 45-70 rifles to throw lines between ships in the 1960's. Bet they are still using them...

[3006guns]

I just double checked and each box is marked "Cartridge, 45 caliber, for line throwing gun......Western Cartridge Co."

Each case headstamp reads "WCC 1943", with a few "1944". So, WWII production.

Aside from the semi balloon head design they look like a very stout case and are in good condition....evidently fired once and placed back in the box. Bear in mind these are not the "ancient" full balloon head, or folded design. These are beefier but don't have the improvement of the modern solid head design. I can appreciate Joe's concern but I think I'll use them for low pressure rounds and a light boolit in my bolt gun.....a rebarreled Mosin Nagant of all things!

[Chicken Thief]

Many 45-70 baloon cases vere fabricated for railroad hole punching tools!
One shot only with smokeless!
http://handyguy.wordpress.com/2010/06/01/railroad-track-hole-punch/

[303carbine]

Modern 45-70 brass is cheap enough to not bother with ancient stuff, my safety comes before saving a few bucks on brass.

[hydraulic]

Had case head seperations on most of the ones I had. .38-40 and .45-70.

[August]

Of all the place where a blow-out, or separation, could occur, the case head is the least desirable (if that's the right word).

I think it is too risky to use balloon head cases in modern rifles. There were no SAMMI standards for components 'back in the day.' Strange variations when shooting antique cartridges in modern guns can accumulate.

[Freightman]

False economy, how much is your hand, eye,life, rifle worth? Graff has good new brass for a good price.

[TXGunNut]

Sell 'em to "collectors" on fleabay, buy some real brass (mebbe some Starline from Buffalo Arms) for safe, long-lasting cases.

[Mooseman]

I would trade some regular brass for the linethrower brass, since I have a 45-70 linethrower !

Rich

[KirkD]

I have a few original balloon head 45-60 brass cases that are over 100 years old that I have reloaded so many times, I can't recall the number BUT they were annealed to bring back the elasticity into the brass. Heat them up so that in the pitch dark, they start to glow red and then immediately plunge them into cold water. If the brass was hard before, it will be back to its elasticity. Work hardening happens with all brass, including modern brass, if you reload the same case enough. I anneal my modern brass too if I use it a lot. Some of my 45-70 brass has been reloaded countless times over the past 20 years, but I do anneal them when I start to observe a case neck split starting in one of them.

[Grapeshot]

You Might anneal them.. I had a bunch given to me and they were hard to size. So I annealed them and use them with BP in my Marlin .45-70 Cowboy. To overcome hardened brass, annealing them is the way to go.

[WinMike]

I'm with the doubters......why, why, why would you risk it?! Sell them to collectors, buy new!

[JesterGrin_1]

I am sorry I have to agree the price of 45-70 brass is not prohibitive. I would get some New Rem brass or for a better price go direct to Starline.

[MtGun44]

For moderate plinking loads, I'd use them. But for something where accuracy was imporant,
I only use brass of one lot so that they have the same history.

Not bothered by the blowup claims. With moderate loads in this caliber pressures are very low.

Bill

[W.R.Buchanan]

I would think they would be too valuable to shoot. Those are not exactly common things, I'd never even heard of them til now. I'd keep a few and sell the rest on ebay one at a time. you'd probably get enough from the sales to keep you in new brass for years. I would think cartridge collectors would pay at least $3-5 a piece for them?

I load WW2 vintage .30-06 brass all the time. so I don't see a problem in that regard, but like they said above why not just buy some new Starline brass?

You can get 250 new cases for $103 (.41 cents each) from,,,

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartList.aspx?catID=2&subID=26&styleID=75&PageSize=10&Page=7

This place is one of , if not the, cheapest Starline distributor. They sell in quantities from 50 to 250 ea. 250 would last along time.

Randy

[DHB]

I agree with TXGunNut. Anything from WWII is collectable. Sell the brass and buy something to reload. If you have to, put a note up at the range you frequent and announce you have WWII line throwing brass you'd trade for once fired/new brass. Remember your brass IS collectable, theirs is not.
DHB

[1Shirt]

Agree with those who say collectable, and to trade or sell them and buy modern and up to date brass.
1Shirt!

[Mooseman]

George and I came to an agreement on a brass trade for the linethrower blank cases.
This Blank brass is thinner than regular brass and I will be attempting to reload these ONLY as Linethrower blanks and re cupping the case mouths.

Rich

[TXGunNut]

Buffalo Arms is another good source of brass. They keep some hard-to find brass and often have Starline when other folks don't. I enjoy doing business with Track of the Wolf and Buffalo Arms, I won't pull up either website unless I have an hour or more to kill.