S&W Model 1905

[Denver]

Can someone tell me what the years of manufacture were for this model? I have a line on one in 32-20 WCF with 6 1/2 inch barrel. The guy is asking $250 for it. Little or no original finish, but in good mechanical shape. Your thoughts ?:cast_boolits:

[Ragnarok]

About gotta have the S&W books..and the serial number of the gun...S&W serials on some guns are hard to nail down to a specific year...guns made in the early 1920's for example.

If I were to guess on a K frame .32-20...I would 'GUESS'...1920's pr 1930's...possibly earlier(teens)...probably not later than the 1940's

Really helps don't it!...Go to the S&W forums and ask..they are really helpful on these forums..

[Bodydoc447]

Be sure and check the barrel. For whatever reason a lot of these .32-20s have rings in the barrels from squibs followed by a live round. I bought one at Auction Arms and found the ring. The seller made right and took it back (I don't think he checked it before the auction). But it sounds like a decent deal.

Doc

[rintinglen]

Serial numbers made before approximately 82000 were not heat treated to the same standard as later guns, and were made prior to 1919. They were made up to WWII and the total manufactured ran somewhere shy of 150,000. I have one of the earlier heat-treated ones and enjoy shooting it very much, though those skinny small sights find no friends in my eyes.

[ebner glocken]

If memory serves correctly after 1919 the .32s were marked "32-20". Before the were marked "32 wcf".

Ebner

[Matt_G]

Serial numbers made before approximately 82000 were not heat treated to the same standard as later guns

According to the Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson (SCSW) heat treated cylinders began with serial number 81287.

Here is the breakdown of serial numbers on the .32-20 1905 model:
Model 1905 - 18126 to 22426 - 1905 to 1906
Model 1905 1st change - 22427 to 33500 - 1906 to 1907
Model 1905 2nd change - 33501 to 45200 - 1906 to 1907
Model 1905 3rd change - 45201 to 65700 - 1909 to 1915
Model 1905 4th change - 65701 to 144684 - 1915 to 1940

$250.00 sounds like a fair price to me for a mechanically sound specimen but I'm no exspurt on Smith's. [smilie=l:

[Denver]

Thanks for the info guys. I should have the gun in a few days. I won the auction for it on Guns America. My winning bid price was $202.50 which is considerably less than what he was willing to accept when I talked to him before the auction ended. I'm hoping he'll honor the deal. He did say that it was in good workable order with no mechanical issues. I have the dies, brass, molds etc already, so I'm looking forward to shooting the old girl. I'll try to post a couple pics of it when it gets here. :castmine:

[9.3X62AL]

Matt--many thanks for transcribing that info. I was curious where my 1905 fit in the scheme of things with its "140xxx" serial range, and thought it was a later-series example. That turns out to be the case. It's a 5" barrel, and I now have 3 such K-frames in 32/20--38 S&W--and 38 Special. Love 'em all.

[Denver]

According to the Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson (SCSW) heat treated cylinders began with serial number 81287.

Here is the breakdown of serial numbers on the .32-20 1905 model:
Model 1905 - 18126 to 22426 - 1905 to 1906
Model 1905 1st change - 22427 to 33500 - 1906 to 1907
Model 1905 2nd change - 33501 to 45200 - 1906 to 1907
Model 1905 3rd change - 45201 to 65700 - 1909 to 1915
Model 1905 4th change - 65701 to 144684 - 1915 to 1940

$250.00 sounds like a fair price to me for a mechanically sound specimen but I'm no exspurt on Smith's. [smilie=l:

This one will be in the 1909-1915 range. SN 47887. Thanks Matt

[StrawHat]

Until yours arrives, here is mine, also with a 6 1/2" pipe.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc194/StrawHat/PopsSW32WCF002.jpg

I also have a 5". One was made prior to the cylinder treatment, one after. I keep all my loads to the soft side so there is no mix up. A lot of fun to shoot and there have been a couple of group buys for molds. I got the 100 grain "Keith" run by Catshooter and have been pleased with it.

[Denver]

Straw Hat,

That looks like the one I have coming, but with a bit more bluing. (Quite a bit actually) Also the grips on mine are different. Where does yours fit in the time slot?
I have a Lyman mold #311008 and the RCBS GC mold (don't recall the #) that I use for my 32-20 rifle. Also have a Lee RN mold that drops a boolit of about 95 grs, so I should be able to make something work. The Hodgdon site lists several loads for cast boolits of this weight range that look to be fairly mild. I found that 2400 works well for loads in the rifle,but may be too hot for my pistol. Just have to figure a way to keep them separated.

:lovebooli

[9.3X62AL]

The grip set on Straw Hat's example may not be original to the revolver. The grips shown are usually post-war, but are pre-1968 due to the "diamond" surrounding the grip screw. OEM grips on pre-war S&Ws can be seen on a few of their "Classic Series" N-frame revolvers now in production. These don't extent all the way up the grip frame to the recoil hump, and form a circle at the S&W logo at their top end. For my own part, neither the old OEM or the later Magna grips seen on Straw Hat's gun do my hands any favors--most of my revos wear aftermarket stocks of some type.

If you can find a copy of Ken Waters' article on "The 32-20 WCF In Revolvers", it may be the best piece I've read dealing with the subject. The gist of the text is his "Pet Load", which used SR-4756 powder to do his revolvers' best work. His data sahowed 6.0 grains under 115-120 grain boolits to be top-end in strong examples (Army Special, Colt SAA)--5.5 grains in the S&W K-frames--and 5.0 grains in the Colt Police Positive Specials. 5.5 grains has become my go-to load in the 1905 with a 120 grain Mountain Molds revolver-specific boolit I had Dan cut for me 5-6 years ago. I give the Bisley Colt 6.0 grains, and both guns shoot very close to their sights on target.

I have to load cartridges specific to each of my two revolvers. The Colt's throats are barely .311" and go into a tight .310" groove set. The S&W has .314" throats and .3125" grooves--which is incidentally the same dimensions as my much later Model 16-4 in 32 Magnum. Can you say "product line characteristic"? I mention this to emphasize that your Lyman #311008 castings may not be wide enough to fit the throats in your revolver for ideal functioning. There seems to be a thread running in the Group Buys area involving a "314008" rendition, IIRC.

[Denver]

More good info. Thanks Al. The grips on mine are as you describe. They end at the circular cutout in the frame. Just happens that I have some unsized castings from the Lyman and RCBS molds I have. The Lyman boolits measure .312/.313 while the RCBS measure closer to .311 in WW metal. I'm eyeing the Accurate Mold #31-105K as a possible go to if the ones I have don't work out.

[Denver]

There's an ad on Gunbroker for a S&W 1905 that has an aftermarket rear sight that looks like it attaches where the top sideplate screw goes. I've never seen this type of sight before. No info in the ad to say who the maker was. The auction # is 271300456

[StrawHat]

...Straw Hat,

That looks like the one I have coming, but with a bit more bluing. (Quite a bit actually)...

I would hope it has more bluing! This one has been carried a lot and wears it's age well. BUT, when I got it the barrel was chopped just in front of the ejector lug. I found and installed a 6 1/2" barrel. I have opted not to refinish it.


...Also the grips on mine are different...

These are not the grips it was shipped with from the factory. Just a pair I threw on for the photo. I am whittling a set from apple to fit to the old revolver. I also have a pair of ivories I put on it from time to time.



...Where does yours fit in the time slot?...

Late teens, I guess. Serial 753xx



...I have a Lyman mold #311008 and the RCBS GC mold (don't recall the #) that I use for my 32-20 rifle. Also have a Lee RN mold that drops a boolit of about 95 grs, so I should be able to make something work. The Hodgdon site lists several loads for cast boolits of this weight range that look to be fairly mild. I found that 2400 works well for loads in the rifle,but may be too hot for my pistol. Just have to figure a way to keep them separated... :lovebooli

I would counsel you to use up the loads for the rifle and then just reload the 32 WCF appropriate for the revolver. If you have two seperate loads, there is always a chance the rifle load will get into the revolver. If you only have the revolver load, you may see a ballistic increase by using it in the rilfe but it will not stress either firearm.

[9.3X62AL]

That is good, cautious advice from Straw Hat concerning load strength. My regimen has been to put up revolver-strength loads ONLY in W-W and R-P cases, and rifle loads for the Marlin 94 in Starlines--and CHECK HEADSTAMPS CAREFULLY as I load them at the bench and place them in the firearm. So far, so good. Red Hi-Liter on the cartridge base might be another ID idea.

The 32-20 WCF is another blackpowder caliber that didn't make the transition to smokeless fuel very seamlessly. The loads I gave above from Mr. Waters' article produce between 800 and 975 FPS from revolver barrels, and in the Marlin 20" tube they get about 1175-1200 (6.0 x 4756). The Holy Black does better--17.0 grains of good 3F gives 1275-1300 FPS, and smaller SD and ES. Accuracy was about a tie. I haven't tried THB in any revolvers (yet).

In its 1882-level loads, the 32-20 in a revolver or a rifle is an excellent small game and varmint harvester. It kills cleanly (MUCH better than a 22 rimfire) and doesn't shred a lot of meat. The high velocity loads (1800-1900 FPS with 115 grainers) is in the 30 M1 Carbine ballpark, and may be the derivative source of that service caliber. Even in FMJ attire, the M1 Carbine will render a lot of small critters inedible, and the 32-20 HV does so even more comprehensively. That's OK for varmints, of course--but cottontails for hasenpfeffer need a lot less ballistic intervention, shall we say?

[Denver]

That is good, cautious advice from Straw Hat concerning load strength. My regimen has been to put up revolver-strength loads ONLY in W-W and R-P cases, and rifle loads for the Marlin 94 in Starlines--and CHECK HEADSTAMPS CAREFULLY as I load them at the bench and place them in the firearm. So far, so good. Red Hi-Liter on the cartridge base might be another ID idea.

The 32-20 WCF is another blackpowder caliber that didn't make the transition to smokeless fuel very seamlessly. The loads I gave above from Mr. Waters' article produce between 800 and 975 FPS from revolver barrels, and in the Marlin 20" tube they get about 1175-1200 (6.0 x 4756). The Holy Black does better--17.0 grains of good 3F gives 1275-1300 FPS, and smaller SD and ES. Accuracy was about a tie. I haven't tried THB in any revolvers (yet).

In its 1882-level loads, the 32-20 in a revolver or a rifle is an excellent small game and varmint harvester. It kills cleanly (MUCH better than a 22 rimfire) and doesn't shred a lot of meat. The high velocity loads (1800-1900 FPS with 115 grainers) is in the 30 M1 Carbine ballpark, and may be the derivative source of that service caliber. Even in FMJ attire, the M1 Carbine will render a lot of small critters inedible, and the 32-20 HV does so even more comprehensively. That's OK for varmints, of course--but cottontails for hasenpfeffer need a lot less ballistic intervention, shall we say?

Good advice indeed. I've used the HiLiters to help identify different loads at times, especially to keep the warmer loads in 38 Spl from finding their way into my J frames. As you say, so far so good.

[StrawHat]

My problem with different load levels stems not from what you or I would do but from others. Case in point, a fellow shooter asked to try out my trapdoor. (I was having a 45-70 day at the range.) No problem, so he grabs the rifle and a box of ammo. I look over and he is chambering a Siamese bomb in the trapdoor. To me, the ammunition was an obvious mismatch with the rifle. To him it was a box of 45-70 ammunition. After that, I have kept my loads at the lowest common denominator for safetys sake. And I have found, the original ballistics of most cartridges to be pretty decent loads for the intended purposes.

As Al said, you need some of the animal left to cook it!