Most efficient (costwise) cartridge for deer hunting with a rifle?

[Milsurp Junkie]

I was having a discussion with a friend of mine regarding the most efficient cartridge cost-wise for hunting deer at normal ranges (up to 150 yards). Assuming, hunting from a rifle, and shooting cast boolits. I immediately thought of 30-30, but then I changed my answer to 357 magnum.

I was wondering what you guys thought. Have any of you calculated cost per round on your hunting loads?

[btroj]

With cast loads in either cartridge you mention I would call it a wash.
Neither one is expensive to shoot lots. Biggest difference to me is that I use a gas check in my 30-30 but not in my 357. I don't consider a difference of 3 or 4 cents per round an issue for hunting ammo. Powder charges are within 5 grains for the loads I use, again not a big deal.
I would go with what I have, what I shoot well, and what fits my current needs and desires.
For 100 yard shots I like the 30-30 better, for 50 or less I would use either one. I have shot a deer with cast in the 30-30, not so with the 357 Marlin. I want one with the 357 so that is what I will be more likely to use next fall.

Not exactly an answer to your question but this is how I see it.

[Milsurp Junkie]

I have a 30-30, still looking for a 357 rifle that is in my price range. I would love to find a Rossi 357 single shot, but they were discontinued and I have not seen then online or at the gun shows/shops...
This was more of a what if argument and got me to thinking of which cartridge would be cheapest.

[corvette8n]

Depends:
7.62x39 surplus HP is pretty cheap if you don't reload.
I think .223 brass and cast bullets would be the next cheapest reloading option.

[badgeredd]

It's pretty hard to beat the old 30-30 or the 35 Remmy in my opinion. I have a 35/30-30 that I dearly love and I'd also say with cast boolits it's right there with the 35 Remmy and the 30-30. I honestly feel that with the 150 yard parameter the 357 Mag isn't really a good choice while the 357 Max should do the work nicely. I am also thinking whitetail deer here. Depending on game, one could do well with a host of other cartridges on the cheap, including 8mm Mauser, 7mm Mauser and 6.5 Swede. All have modest case capacity and more than adequate power out to 150 yards.

Edd

[Kraschenbirn]

.44 Mag loaded down to .44-40 ballistics...boolits cast from 50/50 WWs/range scrap, no gas check, several readily available (and relatively inexpensive) powders to choose from. Before WWII, there were probably as many whitetails taken with .44-40 leverguns as with .30-30s.

Bill

[Bulltipper]

Any cast .30 cal is super cheap, especially if you only shoot one boolit per deer...

[Wolfer]

In the perimeters mentioned I don't know that it matters much. All my rifles are shooting the same alloy that I use in my revolvers ( bhn 9 ). At 1700 fps or thereabouts. 8 mm takes 17 gr of 2400
30-30 takes 17 gr, 30-06 takes 20 gr. The cost of the primer and gas check far exceed the cost of the powder so they all cost nearly the same. It seems to me that the general consensus is that 9
is a bit soft for 1700 fps but it's very accurate in all four of my rifles and mushrooms beautifully in my recovery box. I didn't count the cost of the boolit because I recover most of my lead. I have taken several deer with cast boolits in a 45 colt but not with any of these rifles yet but I'm quite certain that they will ruin a white tails day.

Oops, before I submitted this I thought I better put a pencil to the cost of the powder. 20 gr of 2400 costs about six cents and the primer and gas check only about five
I often only open my mouth to change feet.

[quilbilly]

My 30/30 costs 18 cents per round and 7mm TCU costs 15.5 cents per round at the going prices for powder, primers, gas checks, and lead. Both are just fine for deer.

[starmac]

Well what does it figure out per pound of venison.
Even using store bought ammo, the ammo figures pretty cheap in the whole scope of things.

[lead chucker]

The satisfaction of harvesting deer with my hand crafted bullets was worth more to me than the 20 cents a round it cost me to shoot them. I'm cheap I'm always looking for a way to cut costs on my hand loading. That 357 would be the cheapest I would think. I would think they would have to be pretty hot for shooting out to 150 yards I love the 44 but that range would be pushing it.

[stubshaft]

Assuming brass is already accounted for then my vote would go to my 30 Herrett. Next would be 30/30 or 7 TCU.

[Lloyd Smale]

3030. A guy can by corelock ammo for them at wallmart for about the cost of reloading your own or the cost of empty brass.

[725]

.30-30 came to mind first, but quickly was replaced by a very close .30 Herret. Cast 165 in the .30 Herret is superb.

[Larry Gibson]

Most any common .30 cal from the 30-30 up to the '06 will be pretty much the same cost wise for reloading with cast bullets for reloading to hunt deer out to 150 yards. If one has the brass or scrounges it then the cost of bullets will be the same as the same bullets can be used in any of them. The same GCs are used. The same primers are used. The same powders can also be used with just a tudge more maybe being needed in the larger cases.

Most .357 rifles are far and few between and cost more than many good .30 cal rifles. If just PB'd bullets are used then it's good to 100 yards or so but to be effective at 150 yards a GC'd bullet of 150+ gr is needed. Not a lot of difference between the cost of primers and powder used with the .30 cals. Might be slightly the most efficient cartridge cost-wise but the better efficiency of the .30 cals in the hunting field will more than make up for any advantage the .357 may have.

Larry Gibson

[hydraulic]

I shot and killed (I don't harvest them) 6 bucks in 6 years from a single box of .30-06 Winchester siver tips and still have three rounds left. The box originally cost $9.87. All the rest of my shooting is done with cast bullets. It never occured to me to consider the cost of ammunition before this. We owe it to the critters to kill them in the most efficient, painless manner possible, and not play around with underpowered, marginal cartridges that leave wounded animals to suffer.

[jblee10]

22 LR. But not legal anywhere I can think of.

[kbstenberg]

Hydraulic I admire your attitude on the ethics of hunting

[Tim357]

I gotta wonder. Aside from a discussion just to have a discussion, who cares? What I mean is, a cartridge, or box of cartridges, is generally the least expensive component of the hunt. By the time you figure out cost of licenses, gas, food,etc, the cost of cartridges is negligible by comparison. Having said that, all I've ever used for hunting have been cast boolits, but the cost of ammo has never been a determining factor in any hunt. Besides, if it takes more than one or two shots per animal, one might want to spend more time at the range getting schooled on where to place bullets/boolits so as to ensure a quick, clean kill.

[Milsurp Junkie]

Strictly discussion to have a discussion. I agree that after everything else is considered, the price of ammo is the smallest cost associated with hunting. But then again if you practice with the ammo that you hunt with, the same discussion could be asked:
"What is the cheapest hunting cartridge to use for deer with a maximum range of 150 yards?"

I have a 30/30, numerous 30 caliber milsurps (7.62x39, 7.62x54r, 7.5x55 Swiss), one 30/06, two 6.5x55 Swedish, two 8mm (one Mauser, one Lebel), etc.
Out of all of those, the 30/30 and 7.62x39 have the smallest case capacity and thus require the least amount of powder. I have not loaded cast for the 7.62x39, so I based my original decision on the 30/30.

The 357 mag, in a rifle platform provides some very similar #s as does the 30-30 if you are using 180 grain cast boolits. It has a smaller case capacity so the cost for powder would be even cheaper. If I were using one for hunting (I do not have one...yet), I would likely limit my shots to inside of 100 yards.

Both cartridges would require gas checks, primers and the similar weight of lead (170 versus 180 grains) so those could be factored out of the equation.

You therefore have the cost of brass (although both are cheap), and cost of powder. This gives the edge to the 357 rifle if you limited your hunting to less than 100 yards.

As I stated, simply a discussion to have a discussion and maybe learn something in the process.

By the way Hydraulic, I agree with you completely. That is why I prefer to practice with the same ammo that I hunt with. But the more you practice, the more ammo you need, and the more money you need for your supplies.

[Milsurp Junkie]

By the way rereading Larry's post...I think I just said the same thing with more verbosity.

[wiljen]

Somewhere in this discussion the TCU cartridges need to be listed. The 6.5 TCU in particular does a lot with a very little bit of powder when compared to many other rounds. To be able to get 2200 fps with a 140gr bullet from an 18 inch barrel using 24gr of 3031 is something few other rounds can do.

[felix]

Agree, Will. Actually, the 6.8 with 12 twist would be ideal with the 130 condoms. It's barely a step-up. ... felix

[perotter]

I shot and killed (I don't harvest them) 6 bucks in 6 years from a single box of .30-06 Winchester siver tips and still have three rounds left. The box originally cost $9.87. All the rest of my shooting is done with cast bullets. It never occured to me to consider the cost of ammunition before this. We owe it to the critters to kill them in the most efficient, painless manner possible, and not play around with underpowered, marginal cartridges that leave wounded animals to suffer.

That's about what my uncle who started my learning about the facts of deer hunting said. He said, "The maximum number of rounds rounds you need per deer is 3. If you need more than that, you aren't shooting enough the rest of the year. And you really should only need one."

[BBF]

It's pretty hard to beat the old 30-30 or the 35 I am also thinking whitetail deer here. Depending on game, one could do well with a host of other cartridges on the cheap, including 8mm Mauser, 7mm Mauser and 6.5 Swede. All have modest case capacity and more than adequate power out to 150 yards.

Edd
The problem with the small caliber with hard cast bullets is the lack of expansion for hunting. Particularly pointy bullets will just pencil thru the critter.
You need as much of a Meplat as you can get.:)

35 cal with an FN bullet would be my starting point.

[BBF]

Using something like a 44 Rem Mag or the 45-70 with a heavy FN bullet pushed with Trail Boss or several other shotgun type powders has got to be cheap hunting ammo if you don't encounter long range situations.

[parisite]

At one cartridge per deer I think the price difference would be rather insignificant.........don't you?

[Larry Gibson]

At one cartridge per deer I think the price difference would be rather insignificant.........don't you?

While outwardly that makes a lot of sense when we consider the practice necessary with that rifle/cartridge so we may kill a deer with one shot the cost per deer goes up.....quite a bit in some cases.

Larry Gibson

[Wolfer]

While outwardly that makes a lot of sense when we consider the practice necessary with that rifle/cartridge so we may kill a deer with one shot the cost per deer goes up.....quite a bit in some cases.

Larry Gibson

How true! Several times in my life I've been hunting or shooting with someone and they will get ready to shoot but get in a position that no one could hit from.
Everyone has positions that they shoot best from and the only way you can know what they are is by shooting. This must be done from field positions in every kind of scenerio that you can think of. To be good in the field you must automatically go into a position that works for you without thinking about it. Many people shoot from a bench and assume they can shoot that good in the field then they don't understand why they miss.

I believe it's safe to say that most of us miss on occasion but with enough field type practice it easer to know if you can make the shot or just hold your fire.

Another advantage of regular practice is speed. What I mean is when a critter gives you a shot how long does it take to air mail him a chunk of kick butt. I'm an avid coyote hunter and I can tell you they don't stand still for long.

[atr]

initially I was going to go with the 30-30,,,but changed my mind and will go with the .257 Roberts.

[TCLouis]

I think the only way to have one hunting cartridge per deer is to have at least 50-100 practice cartridges per deer the rest of the year unless one is an accomplished shooter.

[Wolfer]

I'm not an accomplished shooter yet but I'm working on it

[TXGunNut]

While outwardly that makes a lot of sense when we consider the practice necessary with that rifle/cartridge so we may kill a deer with one shot the cost per deer goes up.....quite a bit in some cases.

Larry Gibson

One way I reduce cost (and fatigue) is to practice field positions with a .22lr for most practice sessions. More trigger time is a good thing when it comes to making a shot in the field count.
Aside from that I'd consider the 30-30 the best answer to the question. I've never had to buy 30-30 brass because I didn't reload this cartridge for years (factory RP too cheap & good stuff) and I can pick up all I'll ever need at a public range. Doesn't take as much powder or lead as some of my other cartridges so it would get the nod there as well. Efficient in the field as well with a well-placed shot. At reasonable ranges it has more than enough energy to cleanly kill any critter I get to hunt.

[Larry Gibson]

By the way rereading Larry's post...I think I just said the same thing with more verbosity.

Appear's to me we did say the same thing. Even though we went to 2 different schools together:) we do agree an awful lot....I know that will surprise many.........:drinks:

Larry Gibson

[perotter]

To be good in the field you must automatically go into a position that works for you without thinking about it. Many people shoot from a bench and assume they can shoot that good in the field then they don't understand why they miss.

I believe it's safe to say that most of us miss on occasion but with enough field type practice it easer to know if you can make the shot or just hold your fire.

Another advantage of regular practice is speed. What I mean is when a critter gives you a shot how long does it take to air mail him a chunk of kick butt. I'm an avid coyote hunter and I can tell you they don't stand still for long.

I 100% agree with this. The only time I shoot from a bench is when I'm 1st sighting in a rifle or testing a new load and don't consider it practice.

All of my practice shooting is snap shooting.

[dk17hmr]

My first thought was 6.8 SPC, since it is my caliber of choice for everything but big bull elk hunting. 28gr of powder and a 110gr bullet has never let me down.

Since case capacity is roughly the same 30 Herrett with a 170gr cast would be my choice for an efficint cast boolit deer hunitng round.

Although a 300 whisper wouldnt be far behind.

[GMW]

I hope you don't mind if I add my thoughts to this discussion. Over the years I have shot and killed many deer with the popular calibers; 270Win, 308Win, 30-06, 45-70 and 260 Rem. My quickest and cleanest one shot kills were made with my custom .60 cal rifled flintlock, using a pure lead self cast round ball. My furthest shot was 72 yards. I always reload after I take my first shot, but I never had to take the second shot. Place a 295 grain .585 rb behind the shoulder and you will have a very soon to be dead deer. My Shilo Sharps and my 45-70 guide gun has given me the same results. Jacketed bullets tear up too much meat. I have shot deer at close ranges with partition and ballistic tip bullets, only to have the deer run and expire some 50 yards away. Please believe me, those modern jacketed bullets with all the measured ballistics don't give me the super clean one shot kills! I keep my lead projectiles big, soft and slow for my hunting.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

The 22lr is the most efficient. Poachers everywhere depend on it for feeding their families.
Followed by the 22 Hornet and 223 Remington. Legality, that is another question for another time...

Rich

[Lawyerman]

My kids have killed several tons of game with a Marlin .357 shooting 180 gr. cast- literally.

At last count the rifle had accounted for 7 mule deer bucks, 11 whitetail does and around 30 feral hogs. Those critters were all killed with cast bullets and we never recovered a single one-hole in one side and out the other- even on 300lb hogs.

I fail to see how a .243- widely used for the same type of hunting, that MAY expand to .30 cal is somehow a more efficient killer than a bullet that goes in at .35 and comes out at .35.

Now, our hunting is close, shots are limited to under 100 yards 99% of the time but the kids shoot the little rifle very well as they are not afraid of it's kick etc....

It's a real killer.

[rststeve]

Win 375/ or 38/55 big hole easy one shot kill Lyman 375248 hollow piont does the job. Hollow point by Eric olin www.hollowpointmold.com can't be beat

[Blammer]

35 whelen. :)

cheap as it gets and will wack a deer with pleanty of authority.

[MT Gianni]

50 cal rb flinter with homemade BP and scrounged lead.

[1Shirt]

Well, it is just my opinion, that if you are talking open sighted 30-30 or 357 than 100 yds would by max. If scoped, and with proper ammo, 150 in a 30-30, is no problem with either cast or jacketed. I consider the 357 to be a max 100 yd deer ctg in a rifle, and by choice would prefer it to be appreciably less in the hands of most shooters. With either one, shot placement from steady hands it the key to good clean kills.
1Shirt!