Yeong Chin milling machine

[Tokarev]

A local shop is selling their vertical-horizontal milling machine YC-26 made in Taiwan by Yeong Chin. They have Newall C80 DRO on it and include a dozen collets and a vice (not sure what kind).

Is anyone here familiar with this model?
I am a bit confused about low travel numbers: 20y, 10x, 15z. Would it be Ok for general gunsmithing work on the rifle actions, revolvers, etc?
I would imagine it's not enough Y travel for rifle barrel work.

The machine is operational in his shop and he will allow test run.

What do you think?

http://imgc.classistatic.com/cps/kjc/120118/115r1/8901ci4_20.jpeg

[220swiftfn]

Well.......... It's not a Bridgeport........ And even with those you have to check things....... Take indicators with you, you're going to have to check......

Runout/shake on the spindle
Wear on the gibs and ways
Backlash

Keep in mind that if you look long enough, you can find a Bridgeport with DRO for @ $2500 or so (might be higher now, it's been a while since I've looked)


Dan

[uscra112]

I'd be very, very careful. I was in the machine tool business for about a dozen years. From 1977 to 1984 I worked for an importer, where I saw a lot of Taiwanese product come and go.

My 2 cents: Taiwanese foundries were not very good. I saw far too many castings that were warped, had inclusions in them, were soft when they should have been hard, one even had a "cold shut", (like a wrinkled boolit). Some of the machines we handled were "better grade" Taiwanese, too. It says nothing good about the ethics of the MTB's that they actually shipped product to us that had these severe deficiencies.

I can say very kind things about the Koreans, however. Doosan sent us very high quality stuff. It was a fact back then that many high grade Japanese-brand machines were actually made in Korea.

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

Not sure what barrel work you would do on a mill except maybe fluting for blood grooves (:))
or maybe installing iron sights. This is one of the times where you will need to check out the machine as uscra112 says above. It could be a gem, it could be a disaster.
The addition of the horizontal mill capabilities on this one would be attractive to me.
I had a friend with an Enco clone of a BP, it was a very fine machine. Another friend had a brand new Enco that was a clapped out *** right out of the crate!

[Tokarev]

yes, by barrel work I mean fluting and contouring to octagon.

Their asking price is $2300. I've checked and C80 DRO alone is $1850 new from those who still have stock, that would be easily as much as their asking price at my door with freight and customs. Seeing how C80 is a very capable DRO, I would imagine that out of $2300 they are asking, at least $1000 is for DRO alone, perhaps up to $1200.

I am not sure it is possible to find a running dual horizontal/vertical 5HP BPort at $1100-1300. Am I making sense?

[bob208]

the mill could be ok check it out. as far as milling a round barrel to octagon. you have to do it in steps. if you take one side down the full length the warpage will get you.

[arjacobson]

It will probably not be as handy as a BP BUT having the horizontal mill feature would be very nice.. I used to run LARGE horizontals at the white farm tractor plant and would love to have another in my shop.. Been looking for a good Barker or hardinge horizontal for some time now... If it runs good and isn't too much of a hassle to move it around you could pay for it in just a few jobs.. My first bridgeport was paid for in 6 weeks!!

[220swiftfn]

Aha..... it has the horizontal feed.......missed that.......makes things easier, but isn't a necessity....

Agree with Uscra tho, Rong Fu?? Was/is notorious for soft ways....


Dan

[bigdog454]

Just bought a Induma (Italy) base with a J head Bridgeport on it. Power feed X axis table and DRO, tight, very little backlash $1700 on my trailer.
BD

[Tokarev]

What reputation does Kent have? Found this one:

http://imgc.classistatic.com/cps/kjc/120127/916r1/5415dej_20.jpeg

[El Bango]

Well,it ain't a Bridgeport but I used one in a friends job shop and it was a serviceable machine.I own a Bridgeport that was born in 1975,the same year as my oldest son,wit the 42" table I can build a 1/2rd 1/2oct bbl pretty easily.There's no reason you couldn't do the same with the Kent.

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

Don't get caught up on the "it ain't a Bridgeport" line!
Just because they are well known and popular, also means they could
have had a lot of use or abuse. It boils down to see if the machine, whatever it is, is clapped out or not, & if the size fits your needs.
Kents are fine machines as are Rockwells, Southbneds, BP's etc.
The biggest thing in an unknown machine is to make sure you can get tool holders for whatever taper is in the spindle!!!- one good reason for sticking to BP's and its clones

[Casting Timmy]

Buy which ever machine that comes with lots and lots of tooling, unfortunately the machine is the cheap part.

I would check out Grizzly.com for the price on some new machines so you have an idea of what a new machine is versus a used machine. That way you can get a better idea of what you should pay for a machine.

The best advice would be waiting until you find something and also posting "I want to byu ads on craigslist or other web sites", don't jump on the first machine as the machines vary so much in price it's scary. It took me a while, but I finally got my little Atlas in a price that was right.

Hang in there!

[Houndog]

I bought an Induma from a furnature factory tool room when they were going out of business. It is a 10X54 5 Horsepower 3 phase with a 40 taper spindle. I didn't NEEd anything near this big, but for $900 I couldn't resist. I also have an Enco 8X36 that's ok for LIGHT work, but nowhere the quality of the Induma.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Of the two I see above the Kent is by far the better of the two machines. It is a Lagun clone and weighs 3300 lbs.

another thing you look for when you see a machine at a shop is how clean it is. That Kent is clean, and it appears to have NOT been repainted. So if the condition is that good it probably has not been abused and well taken care of.

It would be very hard to wear one of those machines out and with the condition of the paint on that machine I doubt it was been worked that hard.

I have 2 BP's and I love them and they are a joy to use. I have also used Kent machines extensively and they are good machines. I would take that Kent Mill over a $2500 BP any day.

As far as a readout goes if you go on line or to ebay to the machine tool sections you can find DRO's all day long. With new ones as cheap as $750 you are just as well off buying new as used. That $750 model is made by Mitutoyo. it is just a basic DRO which is really all you need. I have travadials on my old BP and they ahve worked well for 20+ years.

Do make sure to get as much tooling with the machine as they will give you. You should get at least a set of collets and a machine vise. Try for a Kurt machine vise, they are the best. A drill chuck and a boring head and you are looking good.

You will pay thru the **** for this stuff unless you get it with the machine, so you need to push hared to get this stuff included.

As far as the other machine goes you'd use the Horizontal feature about once every 15 years. I have a Bridgeport Horizontal attachment for my BP's and I used it last 15 years ago.

One thing to note: there is a significant difference between Tainwanese machines made in the 80's and ones made in the 90's. Any Taiwanese machine is light years ahead of anything made in mainland CHINA even today.

Randy

[JIMinPHX]

A combination vertical/horizontal mill can be a handy thing indeed, if it is still tight & if the axis are all square to each other. That particullar one has a quill on the Z-axis, which is a handy thing that not all of the combo jobs have. From the picture, it looks like the vertical spindle takes a R-8 collet, like a Bridgeport & the other spindle takes a 40-taper. 40-taper tooling is not as cheap or as easy to come by as R-8, but it is out there & you can find just about any type of holder that you might need if you are willing to pay the price. It's not like one of the obsolete proprietary tapers that some older machines have. The X & Y dimensions are the table travel. The Z dimension is the quill &/or the knee travel.

If I was looking to buy that machine, I'd probably offer about $1500, after making sure that it was still tight.

Take a cut on a piece of cold roll steel (not lead loy) & then take another cut at a right angle to the first. Check for a good finish & check to be sure that the cuts are straight, flat & perpendicular. If you like what you see, I'd make an offer.

[Tokarev]

JIMin,

Are you referring to the original post, the Yeong Chin?

[JIMinPHX]

JIMin,

Are you referring to the original post, the Yeong Chin?

Yes, I was talking about the YC.

[Tokarev]

Do make sure to get as much tooling with the machine as they will give you. You should get at least a set of collets and a machine vise.
Looking my eyes out! It's really hard to come by a machine with lots of tools included exactly because everyone knows how valuable tools are!

One thing to note: there is a significant difference between Tainwanese machines made in the 80's and ones made in the 90's. Any Taiwanese machine is light years ahead of anything made in mainland CHINA even today.

Randy
I was told the same thing recently. The machinist I respect a lot tells me that famous Japanese brands are ordering Taiwan made castings now all the time.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Tokarev: If the machine is coming form a shop then just beg and plead and tell them how you are just getting started and need help and maybe they will give you something more than just a bare machine.

You need at minimum a 3/8, 1/2, 5/8 , and 3/4 collets 1/8,3/16,1/4,5/16,7/16,9/16, are also good to have but you won't use any of them that much. If you buy new collets buy "Hardinge" brand, they are the best and they are not that much more expensive than junk.

A Kurt vise, even an old one is the other necessity. You can't do much of anything without a vise. Kurts are the best and the most common and even a very worn one is better than a new Indian made one.

A 1/2 keyed drill chuck on either a 3/4 strait shank or an R8 shank is one piece you will use practically all the time. The boring head is something you will only use occasionally but when you need it, you need it as there is no other way to make a 1.317 dia or other odd sized hole on a manual machine.

If you go to "Reliable Tool Store" on Ebay you can find all sorts of tooling for mills and other machines. As far as a chuck get a Jacobs ball bearing chuck to start then you can add an Albrect Keyless chuck later. Plan on spending about $75 for a good 1/2 Jacobs ball bearing chuck on a shank. You are almost better off buying one new for a few $ more.

You will also see Criterion Boring heads, they usually are mounted on a R8 shank. Get a 2" round one, as it will cover most everything you'll do. The square ones don't have as much travel s the round ones do but are more precise.

If you can get that Kent machine for less than $2500 I'd say do it. If you need to get out of it, it is a much more saleable machine than that combination machine. Combination machines will do more things but they generally don't do anything well. That Kent machine is in good shape.

As far as the Taiwanese versus the Chinese issue.

This is true now, however it won't be true in another few years. The Chinese are experts at copying stuff.

When they learn how to copy quality,,,, We are all in trouble.

Randy

[arjacobson]

check out cdco tools. They sell enco type tooling for very good prices. I have bought many items from them and have been totally happy with each item. Excellent place to deal with for cheaper than enco but same tools..:bigsmyl2:

[Flinchrock]

Don't get caught up on the "it ain't a Bridgeport" line!
Just because they are well known and popular, also means they could
have had a lot of use or abuse. It boils down to see if the machine, whatever it is, is clapped out or not, & if the size fits your needs.
Kents are fine machines as are Rockwells, Southbneds, BP's etc.
The biggest thing in an unknown machine is to make sure you can get tool holders for whatever taper is in the spindle!!!- one good reason for sticking to BP's and its clones

I agree,,,Bridgeports are famous and all,,,but there ain't nothin' magic about them,,they can be just as sloppy as anything else, but it usually takes a lot more years to get there!!
That Kent looks like a solid machine(can't tell much from a picture). And it's not a Vari-Speed head, I hate vari-speeds have to rebuild the sliding pulley assemblys fairly often, as a matter of fact I have a vari-speed down right now! gimme step pulleys any day!
Check around for a Lagun with block ways,,,they make a series 1 Bridgeport look like wannabe's when it comes to solid!!

Sometimes a good operator can somewhat compensate for a clapped out machine. but it's fiddlesome and tiresome!!

That yung chin machine sounds like a ok price,,,but I've never heard of them!

[Tokarev]

What kind of vehicle is required to transport that Kent, for example (3700 lb)?
And what is required to load/unload? Would a forklift work?

[JIMinPHX]

A standard Bridgeport is usually around 2,700 pounds. Most of those mills have a tapped hole in the top of the ram where you can screw in a machinery eye to lift from. Off the top of my head, I think that Bridgeports are usually 5/8"-11. I've seen some machines that were 1/2"-13. If you don't have a machinery eye & a hook to lift with, they you can also grab them with a pair of forks under the ram, with one fork on each side of the center post of the machine. Use wood planks between the forks & the bottom of the ram, both to pad the ram & also to prevent slipping of metal on greased metal.

Which ever way you grab it, it is helpful to first lower the knee all the way, rotate the head so that the heavy end (motor) is facing down, center the x-travel of the table & move the ram to a place where the center of gravity will be the center of your lift grab. This gives you the most compact package with the lowest center of gravity. It makes a big difference.

Forklifts vary greatly in capacity. Most will have a nameplate that lists the lifting capacity. The lifting capacity is usually listed at a 24" load center. You will probably be lifting the mill from about 3 feet out, so you want 1.5 x the weight of the mill in rated forklift capacity @ 24". 5,000 lb. forklifts are fairly common in everyday warehouse use, although I have seen some smaller ones rated as low as 3,000 or even 2,500. Much larger ones are also out there. The largest that I have worked with was a 40,000 lb. Eagle.

I've also moved mills like that with a pallet jack (aka pallet truck or pump jack). The only trick there is getting the mill up high enough to get the pallet jack under it. Those mills are a bit top heavy & tippy, so I recommend lifting with screws or hydraulics rather than leverage from a long bar. Harbor Freight sells a cheap pallet jack for around $250. It can do the job if you use it correctly & you are working on a good smooth solid flat floor. Don't try to lift with the forward tips of the legs on the pallet jack.

You can rent a 2-axle utility trailer from U-Haul for about $35/day. I've moved equipment that size in one of those trailers before. You can also get a suitable truck from any of the truck rental places, but they tend to cost more & you will be working with a higher deck to load/unload from.

[Fly]

I have a Kent I bought new in 1980.It is a very good mill.I still have it & use it daliy.

Fly

[uscra112]

If you try to move it on your own trailer, BUILD A SKID and bolt the machine to it. Skid should be 4 feet long x 4 feet wide at least. Two parallel 2x6s under the bolt-down points on the machine, with 2x6 cross-pieces, BOLTED together. Properly skidded, the machine can be moved by the Egyptian method on a smooth floor. (i.e. 4 foot pieces of 3/4" iron pipe for rollers. Having a couple of crowbars handy will help a lot. ) Have done this a good many times.

Never, never try to pick a Bridgeport-type machine from the bottom without a skid. It will fall over! Proof positive of Murphy's Law.

[uscra112]

BTW the Alliant version of the Bridgeport is an excellent machine. When Textron took over Bridgeport around 1980 they fired all the distributors. (This was so stupid that it beggars description - the dealers were the reason Bridgeport was so successful! ) The dealers all got together and had a copy built for them, so they'd have something to sell. Being as they knew as much or more than Bridgeport did, they got it right. Meanwhile, Bridgeport/Textron very nearly tanked.

[Tokarev]

Thank you everyone for looking out for me! Really appreciated.
Lots of good info in this thread to work with.

[W.R.Buchanan]

tokarev: when you move the mill follow Jim in px's description. Bridgeport step head mills are 2300lbs varispeed models are about 2600 lbs that Kent is probably 3300 +

I always lift them under the ram. Do NOT ever lift under the foot! It will fall over! When they start to go they are gone as there is nothing you can do to stop one once it starts falling. I don't liek using the eyebolt method as I have seen one pull out. 2500lbs on a 1/2 eyebolt is pushing it. best just lift under the ram it is by far the safest way.

There is no excuse for dumping a machine. It is jsut plian stupid, seen it happen dozens of times. They were always idiots.

Always have help, and preferrably experienced help.

When you get it near where you want it and sitting on the floor you can bar one around fairly easily with a standard wrecking bar 3' long. You will notice there is a knotch in the front and rear of the foot of the machine. It is there to bar the machine around.

Randy

[JIMinPHX]

If you try to move it on your own trailer, BUILD A SKID and bolt the machine to it.

This is excellent advice, especially if you are going to move it with a pump jack.

I've seen some people leave the machine permanently mounted to the skid, so that they could move it around the shop as they needed to. You can stick it in a corner for storage & you can put it next to the door if you need to mill the end of something that is very long. That whole business about needing to get a machine perfectly level before using it isn't exactly Gospel.

[ions82]

I have a mill that is very similar to that Yeong Chin. Most stuff from YC that is here in the U.S. is sold under the SuperMax name. The one I have was branded "Dynamic", but it was made by YC. The one pictured looks very similar to a SuperMax YCM-2GS. Mine weighs in at 5,300 pounds, and I'm guessing the SuperMax version is about the same. It's a big machine that is very well made. All of the stuff I've seen from YC has been very well built. I would take that one over a Bridgeport any day of the week. Machining metal is all about rigidity. A 5,000-pound machine with a 40-taper spindle is going to be far more rigid than a standard knee mill. Then again, it doesn't exactly "feel" light while using it. To run a machine like that YC, you'll need to rely on the power feeds. Otherwise, you'll quickly grow tired of cranking the handles.

[Tokarev]

Ions,

Thanks a lot for providing the weight!

[Tokarev]

More and more I am leaning towards buying a combination vertical horizontal mill, as I realized that some work can be done much easier on a horizontal mill than on vertical, such as working on the breech end of the barrels.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I just can't picture a way to mill a cavity in the breech end of a 24" barrel on a vertical.

[xr650]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I just can't picture a way to mill a cavity in the breech end of a 24" barrel on a vertical.

Use a right angle drive.
http://http://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/NNSRIT2?PMAKA=79056941&PMPXNO=2111535&cm_re=ItemDetail-_-ResultListing-_-SearchResults (http://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/NNSRIT2?PMAKA=79056941&PMPXNO=2111535&cm_re=ItemDetail-_-ResultListing-_-SearchResults)

[Ed K]

You should be able to buy a Hardinge combo for the price of the YC. The best if you want a combo.

I moved a Series I BP yesterday by myself and I was very nervous as I'm not an old hand at this. I took her across two states and into my basement. I read all I could, applied a fair dose of common sense and still needed a drink at the end of the day. I too considered the skid on trailer idea but wound up renting an enclosed box truck for protection from the elements and bolted it to the deck. I filled the holes with hardwood dowels and antiqued them with a little dirt!



http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/4324512/hr/599362528/name/n_a

http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/4324512/hr/909331387/name/machines+01+004.jpg

[Tokarev]

Use a right angle drive.
http://http://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/NNSRIT2?PMAKA=79056941&PMPXNO=2111535&cm_re=ItemDetail-_-ResultListing-_-SearchResults (http://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/NNSRIT2?PMAKA=79056941&PMPXNO=2111535&cm_re=ItemDetail-_-ResultListing-_-SearchResults)

As I took shop class at school on a 25x60 lathe, these flimsy little attachments, that cost like another mill, make me a bit weary. 2 extra joints in a slim housing... Compared to a sturdy front wall of a combo mill...


I moved a Series I BP yesterday by myself and I was very nervous as I'm not an old hand at this.

Ed,
Mind me asking what kind of truck did you use and how did you load?
That could be in the attached pictures, but Yahoo is not showing them for some reason.

[Ed K]

Ed,
Mind me asking what kind of truck did you use and how did you load?
That could be in the attached pictures, but Yahoo is not showing them for some reason.

I used a typical 16-foot long, 6.5 foot height box rental truck. There was nothing special about it. I decided to go this way instead of open trailer due to the weather. It did not have any kind of steel tie-downs on the interior - only wood straps running the length of the interior walls which certainly are not robust enough to secure heavy machine tools. I got the mill in place, made sure it was clear of the underlying framework, and using a long bit drilled through the 1" hardwood decking of the truck body using the holes in the BP base as guides. I then inserted carriage bolts from the bottom up through the BP base and secured with nuts and washers. To distribute any pulling load from the heads of the bolts on the underneath of the deck, I used oversized steel washers just under the bolt heads and pre-drilled wood blocking in between the washers and the underside of the deck. It seemed very secure. Then, so the machine could not gain any leverage on the base while the truck was in motion, I used a series of medium-duty ratcheting straps from the top of the machine to the wooden strap tie-downs along the lower sides of the interior making taking advantage of strength in numbers. A professional might laugh at it but I believe it was safe.

Key was the seller had a fork lift as do I at my end. I did not take any pictures of this move and what I posted of the Hardinge was all I had intended. It would have been nice to document the move but renting the truck, traveling two states away, loading/returning/unloading and then repairing(!) and getting the truck returned in the same day was a lot! I actually moved the BP from my garage into the basement the next day (by myself again) so maybe I stretched the truth a little in my initial account - oh well. By the way, the glued-in dowel "repair" was so effective I had absolutely zero concern upon returning the truck that they would ever even see it let alone be concerned. Upon completing it and sweeping out the truck I had to study the floor to find them and I'm the one that did the drilling!

Now the truck was justified in my mind because the BP is "mint", the distance and weather presented legitimate obstacles as well as I was working by myself. Rental fees, mileage and gas ran $260 which isn't cheap but I'd hate to pay what a pair of riggers would have charged me. Someone else mentioned the $35 U-Haul trailer and I recommend it also if your circumstances permit using it. First is price as the flat fee is all you pay, there is no "mileage" and you use your own vehicle to tow. Second is that it is easy to load and unload. Last is that there are steel D-rings and a very rigid steel rail running around the perimeter you may safely use for attachment. I used this trailer last year to move a copy of the Hardinge in the previous post as well as a 1800lb South Bend lathe. No fork truck was required. The trailer has a decent ramp. Using wood, a come-a-long, rollers and such I was able to accomplish both moves with a helper. The move was cheap and importantly safe.

Lastly, I'll speak concerning the Hardinge (applicable to other horizontal/vertical combos as well). The Hardinge is a very capable horizontal machine provided what you plan to do fits within the work envelope (my work does). Given the general bias toward vertical mills on the part of hobbyists and the used market in general from what I can discern, quality and capability comes comparatively cheap on them. As I said previously the Hardinge machines are commonly available from $1000-2500 so I don't see why one would settle for less(Asian?) aside factors I don't understand. The downsides to them in vertical mode are significant: head must be trammed each time you return from horizontal mill mode, heads generally not as powerful as stand-alone verticals, sometimes no quill travel (knee travel substituted), and work envelope is typically tight. Still, for many hobbyists they present a viable option. My verdict is evident: just purchased a dedicated BP vertical mill.

Enjoy your decision-making process. I'm in agreement with most everything posted in this thread. I have to say I know nothing about your YC mill. I will agree you do not have to buy South Bend or Bridgeport to get a good machine. In fact as some have pointed out a number of copies are superior. However, as a hobbyist and buying older machines, parts availability is important to me and is something I do not worry about with these two names.

[Budmen]

To bad none of you are around my area I have the equitment to move anything upto 30,000# and am a crane operator/rigger by trade. I would love to barter some equitment moves for some very general machining and smithing leasons.