Makeing bullet jackets from Guiding metal

[GerryM]

I'm doing the math on the draws and need a tad of help .
There was kaj,s thread on jacket makeing and it was very good.
I plan on makeing my own {or should i say have my die maker make the dies for the process. I have the 2 ton hydraulic press and i'm getting ready with other things to get started.
Some where in one of the threads there was a person who worked for a bullet manufacture . He knew a lot about Drawing dies.
I would like to contact him or have him contact me about die makeing in general.
Any help is truely appreciated Gerry

[algunjunkie]

Here is a site that I found a long time ago, the guy builds his own equipment and makes his bullets. He is not using anything super fancy and has some videos on how he does it.

http://people.aapt.net.au/~nelltash5/bullet%20factory%2002/Bullet%20factory%20pics.htm

[scrapcan]

it might have been jcunclejoe. Others who can likely help are bohica2xo. And Elk Hunter. And of course KTN

[GerryM]

Yes I think thats the one jcunclejoe"" Thanks for the heads up'''
Now to contact him. If i remember corectly he worked for a bullet company'

[GerryM]

Algunjunkie thanks for that link. I have seen that before Great site.
I plan on using a similar system , I have a hydraulic press thats 2 ton.

[scrapcan]

GerryM,

Yes he did work for a bullet company. I have not seen a post form him since around mid summer. He also offered a set of design prints for swage dies.

[GerryM]

Manley we should keep in touch with him. He has a lot of knowledge about bullet makeing,
Jackets etc and is willing to share. Is there an Email contact on the site?
I would like to chat with him . Maybe start a new thread about how to make jackets and share the information with the people on the site.

[scrapcan]

GerryM,

if you do a search or find a post by a particular user you can click on a user name and have the forum send an email.

There is an old thread that has a link to a video and I think pictures of a corbin jacket maker in action, but I don't remember who posted it.

[GerryM]

Thanks to all for the replys
I sent a contact Thru the site, found his address that is still valid .
He has helped a lot so far . Really nice guy.
Gerry

[MIBULLETS]

GerryM, can you post your progress for us inquiring minds?

[scrapcan]

GerryM,

Glad to hear you were in contact with him. I agree a very nice guy.

Please do share with us

[firefly1957]

Is two tons enough to draw a bullet jacket?

[GerryM]

I'll let you know whats happening as soon as i get more of the tech worked out.
specs are very tight to make match quality jackets.
there will be several draws to wind up with the correct sizes and concentricity'
Yes 2 ton on a hydraulic should be more then enough. lubes are the key.
I have a good line on getting the proper draw die lubes. i'll know more after the dies are perfected. right now i'm trying to get a small supply of 95 5 guilding metal.
so far every one wants to sell me 50 to 250 lbs .
The first ones will be tool steel later the dies will have Carbide inserts.

[Smokin7mm]

jcunclejoe used to work for nosler. I spoke with him the other day and he is in the process of moving from Bend Or. to Sweethome OR. He has no home phone yet only a cell. His E-mail address is the same if you obtained it from this site.
Bret

[scrapcan]

GerryM,

What are you hearing as far as lube recommendations?

[GerryM]

Nothing from Joe But I have a web site.
Heres one I plan on trying
DF 7303 Water soluable concentrate Rooster labs
po box 414605 Kansas Mo 64141
ph 816 474-1622

[bohica2xo]

E. Jordan Brookes is your best bet for Ca -210 strip for jackets. good folks to deal with.

If you are serious about making jacket dies, 50 lbs of strip is no big deal. You should already know what temper & thickness you will be using, and that small quantity goes quicker than you think.

Your material supplier controls part of your business. If you get stock that is harder (or softer) than your last run - or .005 thicker you will have trouble. If you are developing dies you really need to run the same batch of feed stock so you are not chasing your tail.

.

[GerryM]

Bohica Thanks for the heads up' I'll try that supplier. I have had contacts with a few.
The prices for a small quantity was excessive.
The stock has to meet specs or it goes back. A few rolling mills are located not that far away. The stock has to be .028 thick and uniform. The math is done. I need stock to play with for a start.

[BT Sniper]

I haven't kept up with the thread here but I found a cool video I had seen a while back.

Check it out.

http://people.aapt.net.au/~nelltash5/bullet%20factory%2002/Bullet%20factory%20pics.htm

[GerryM]

Thanks Bt. It looked good' Thats what i had in mind .
Only with a comercial press.

[GerryM]

I'm stuck for a while. My press is running . I still have to make a table for it.
I still need a sample quantity of that guilding metal 95 5 C210
No one seems to have a small quantity available. I could use about 2 lbs for a start.
Heres what i need if you know anyone who may sell some
95 5 C210 guilding metal .028 thick X 3/4 inch wide by FT

[MIBULLETS]

GerryM, may I ask what particular jacket or jackets you plan to produce? By the size of the "coins" you can cut from that size strip, I assume that it is not a large caliber?

[GerryM]

The coin will be about.600 in diameter.
With calculations made I should be able to make a few different sizes.
Starting with a short 40 caliber. and picking up a short 30 cal finally down to 6mm.
No plans on 22 as of yet but that aslo could be possable.
Changing thickness of stock could make longer jackets in a few of the larger calibers.
My goal is to make Benchrest quality 6mm jacket in different lengths.
also short 30 caliber for light 115 to 125 bullets.

[475AR]

I'm stuck for a while. My press is running . I still have to make a table for it.
I still need a sample quantity of that guilding metal 95 5 C210
No one seems to have a small quantity available. I could use about 2 lbs for a start.
Heres what i need if you know anyone who may sell some
95 5 C210 guilding metal .028 thick X 3/4 inch wide by FT

PM me, I have .032X1" copper strip that I use for basegaurds and gas checks, and will send you some to help this project:D

[GerryM]

Pm sent and Thank YOU Gerry

[dfreeman]

I was looking at one of the videos here of a guy placing small round copper discs into a die to be drawn into cups. Those round copper discs are scrap punchings from a metal perforating press. We sold thousands of pounds of those discs for scrap when I was working at the perforator plant making perforated metal panels. Copper and brass. Wish I knew the dimensions needed for the various cups. My son works for that perforator still. I bet BT could make up some drawing dies.

[GerryM]

Thank you for that post" Not a problem with the dies I bet BT could make them also.
I'm having trouble with finding the proper coil stock.
I can find it but the suppliers want me to buy 250 lbs to start. One supplier was willing to sell me 50 lbs at $16 a lb. Kind of a pricy investment just to get the proper sizes to start with. One other supplier want $10 a lb , if I bought 250 lbs seems as though thers quite a price spread.
What i need is C210 guilding metal, thats what i'll need to get the quality i'm shooting for.
It has to be .028 thick to start with the disc would be about .600 in diameter.
Maybe i could get away with .500 in diameter but that might thow off the calculations on the cupping and draw dies. I need about 2 lbs of stock to start with,
Thank You for your great offer""" Once I get some material it won't be a problem on
getting the proper materials later. Its just a problem starting out.
R and D cost is one factor. At this point I cant really say for sure just what coil stock thickness will also be the one I need for some type of production.
I may have to change the thickness or diameter, possably both.
Thats the main reason for only needing a few pounds, Even though the MATH said one thing production may tell me something else.
Gerry

[dfreeman]

GerryM - I see from reading the posts more carefully that you can make the dies.! Sorry, didn't mean to step on any toes. I have asked my son if he could find any of the metal that you are looking for. I don't get on this page every day but will let you know if he can get a small amount or has any laying around in the shop. Is there any other grade of bras or copper tha you might be able to use?

[GerryM]

I'm locked in to the .028 guilding metal. later after the first trial i may be able to use stock thats thicker. something like .030 or .032. The only catch sso far is thee grade 95 5 C210.
Thank you again. I'll Pm you with my address.

[GerryM]

Actually i'm not makeing the dies I do have a skilled die maker thats willing to help design and make the dies. The press set up and operation will be my work.
After i get the set up working i'll share what i can with anyone interested.
Ive noticed that the bullet makers who sell us quality jacket are quite reluctent to sell us
any real quantity of jackets. Then they limit the sizes of the jackets.
They also are chargeing production cost of the entire bullet , just for the jackets''
Shipping is also breaking my back .

[Utah Shooter]

Very cool thread. I had never put that much thought into doing this but the more I think of it? Why not. I look forward to seeing how this turn out.

[taminsong]

GerryM,

Any updates for us all?

[GerryM]

I do have my press up and running. I just bought a die shoe and am getting things lined up.

My problem is getting C210 guilding metal samples. everyone wants to sell me large quantitys.
From what i'm getting Via emails it a special order item. The price is also thru the roof.
Big spreads on priceing too. I'm going to try to work with some copper for a start.
I will buy a decent size lot of C210 after the dies are perfected. I have to work out coin size. and die sizes. The math is one thing , production is another.

[taminsong]

I pray that you will succeed in this project of yours. It will helps us all someday avoid some pitfalls if we go your way.

Good luck, God bless and give us updates, will ya?

[GerryM]

Yes I will give updates and even some photos. May in a short time if all goes well.

[coyote]

GerryM for all its worth I have been swaging and making bullets for a long time now.
From reading some of your posts I think you might want to consider larger blanks.

I tried finding some guilding metal a long time ago and was unable to in small amounts.

You mentioned a .600 " blank that will make 22 bullets up to 65gr and light weight 6mm.
I use a 1 " blank to draw 6mm 105's and light weight 30 cal.
I use 1 1/4" blanks for 7mm and 30 cal high BC bullets.

This is done with pure copper at .028"

[GerryM]

Pm Sent. Thanks for the heads up
Calculations don't always come out correctly.
Where do you get the copper stock?
i'm still haveing problems with stock supplies.
I certainly don't understand the reasoning of these companies.
You would think they would be anxious for new business.

[Wayne Smith]

I'd think you could get small samples more readily from end users than from suppliers. Have you talked to the guys at Serria or Nosler about picking up samples of your metal?

[GerryM]

No i havent. I did try olin {winchester} They were pretty good about supply.
The problem is that small quantity for development.
I had one company offer to sell e 7 lb $280 that right $40 a lb.
I can't undestand the mentality. I have received some .032 from Scott in Fl
Nice guy

[Wayne Smith]

My limited experience with the guys at Serria Bullets is that they will bend over backwards to help someone.

[coyote]

No i havent. I did try olin {winchester} They were pretty good about supply.
The problem is that small quantity for development.
I had one company offer to sell e 7 lb $280 that right $40 a lb.
I can't undestand the mentality. I have received some .032 from Scott in Fl
Nice guy

I thought winchester sold ammunition cups ,there is a bullet maker I know that buys them there.

If you could get the cups you would save yourself a few steps in the process.

[GerryM]

Yes they will make the cups. You send the prints and they make them to spec.
The idea is to get away from buying from a source that has control over your supply.
Right now im trying to buy some jackets from my supplier. I was told three weeks ago that i would have them in two weeks. Today i was told that they are just strating a run in the size that i need and it will be another week. Yeas another week or two or?
Thats why i have decided to make my own. If I save money fine if not then at least I will have control of my own supply. The big problem with bullet is the militaery orders.
Then china is buying all of the copper they can get a price on. That has driven the market on copper and alloys sky high.

[coyote]

I had contacted berger for jackets last year and figured I would buy some rather than go through the bother of making them.
When I asked for a price they were like 20 cents a piece for the ones I wanted plus duty shipping and export fees, so needless to say I am still drawing my own at about 6 or 7 cents a piece.

[GerryM]

yes I know I have bought many thousands from burger, Sierra has jumped on the band wagon.
Jacket prices are set at production cost of the entire bullet.
They keep going up every year, The excuse is the copper market, but some of us know better. Call it greed