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omgb
03-09-2007, 11:51 PM
OK, so here is my brain storm part II. I want to take an NEF rifle and fit one of their rifled slug barels to it. Then using 12 Ga brass hulls, load a cast lead bullet over about 140 grains of 2F. That my friends should be a butt-kicker and name taker on both ends. But, here's the rub: what diameter is an NEF rifled slug barrel? And, is there an existing factory mould that casts a paradox-type slug that will fit that bore? Any one know?

The guys over at Greybeard just ignored my post for over what, 4 months. Hmmm, I guess they don't want to speak with me.:cry:

Nueces
03-10-2007, 12:24 AM
OK, so I can't answer any of your questions, but, in the spirit of this board, I'm going to soak up some bandwidth anyway. Yougoddaproblemwiddat? :-D

I've thought of doing the same thing with another platform, an old black powder Remington RB action. Barrel shank is 1 1/8". I'll be following what you find out, for academic purposes only, because prayerful consideration has led me to admit that ain't no way am I gonna touch off 140 grains behind a 12-bore slug.

PM me if you want my man card. :mrgreen:

Mark, PhD, LtCol, Retired (AFRes), Recoil Wussie

omgb
03-10-2007, 12:32 AM
Col, as an old USAF 25170 SSgt, I would hate to think I had a pair bigger than an officer:mrgreen: but truthfully, it's not as bad as you think. I shoot BP shot loads all of the time. My standard load is 11/4 oz of #5 and 120 grains of 2F. It's stout but not the killer one would think. I had a 303 Jungle Carbine once that would cause even Dick Butkis to cry like a litle girl after ten rounds or so.

I can handle my 45-90 sharps and I have a very light 3" mag single barrel 12 GA that can raise some hair and a welt or two so I'm thinking this might not be so bad. If those little limies can/could do it with 4 and 2 bore guns, I'm thinking a 275 lb 6'3" red blooded he-man American yank can do it too. Of course, I don't intend to tell him what he's in for before he unleashes that shot.[smilie=1:

MT Gianni
03-10-2007, 12:33 AM
The problem would be assuming that the next bbl would be cut the same diameter. Sounds like one of those things ya just gotta to one step at a time. Gianni.

ARKANSAS PACKRAT
03-10-2007, 12:34 AM
R J...........Do we get video when you lighter' off?????? Me I'mwithNueces........back in the bleachers!!!
Nick:drinks:

rhead
03-10-2007, 12:42 AM
The .575 mini bullets will make a pretty good fit in a improved cylinder 20 gauge. Accurate out to 50 yards or so but the slug is sidewaysat impact. A rifled barrel would take care of that but may require paper patching. I dropped the project before investing in the rifled slug barrel because I foolishly asked myself what I was going to use it for.

omgb
03-10-2007, 01:05 AM
OK, minor barrel variations of lets say +/- .002 I can live with, even up to .005 over is workable with BP. A soft 1/20 tin/lead slug will bump up to fit perfectly the minute the BP is touched off. I've seen Trapdoors with a bore of .463 shoot 1/20 bullets cast at .458 shoot fine with BP.

It is going to make one heck of a boom and smoke cloud though. A couple of things trouble me. First, while I like the delux slug gun stock and design, I really have to get the handi rifle if I want to be able to use other barrels. That's a big point because this thing is really gonna be a "fanciful" gun not a practical shooter. I mean, how often am I going to get 100 yard shots on deer in the PRK? In the desert where I hunt those kinds of shots do happen but they are about as common as virgins in a cat house. Second, the barrels the factory offers are only 24" long and I honestly don't think I can burn 140 grains of BP in that short of a tube. I might be able to do it with lets say, 10 grains of RL7 and 125 grains of 2F but, I'm not too sure of what the pressure in a load like would be. Now, maybe I could use 120 grains of T7 and get tht to go but then, that's gonna cost some $$$ and I'm kinda frugle. Also, the twist on those factory barrels is a tad fast for a paradox slug. Specs say 1/35 and a paradox slugh is short and thick with a heavy base. I think maybe 1/60 would be better but then again, I'm not sure.

Nueces
03-10-2007, 01:59 AM
Well, this darn sure won't be the first time I listened to and learned from an old Sgt. (I was one, too, for a while) What the hey, you might convince me to go ahead and try it. I promise pics for those of you with better sense, who are anticipating blood in the water. :drinks:

Mark


Col, as an old USAF 25170 SSgt, I would hate to think I had a pair bigger than an officer:mrgreen: but truthfully, it's not as bad as you think.[smilie=1:

threett1
03-10-2007, 09:49 AM
Actually I think the paradox barrels had a twist of maybe 1/100. Not sure but seems I read somethin like that one time. Also you might want to change out that steel buttplate of a recoil pad NEF puts on their Handis.:mrgreen: Made my 45/70 much more palatable for use. All in all I like your idea and would like you to post pics of you touching it off so I can decide if I want to do somethin like that. Lots of that dangerous game here in Missouri you know.:-D

omgb
03-10-2007, 11:50 AM
You are correct about paradox twist. In fact, most of the paradox barrels I've studied were only rifled the last few inches of the barrel and then, very shallowly. I was thinking of the 1/60 twist as a compromise. The neat ticket is that Brass hulls are already a full 23/4" in length. That leaves plenty of room for a slug and a house full of powder. It occurs to me that if one wanted to, one could encase the entire slug withing the 23/4" of hull and then use the rounds in that cute little Norinco lever action shotgun. The trick would be getting a rifled barrel fitted to it.

At any rate, it looks as if I will have to buy the Handi Rifle with a synthetic stock in lets say 3006 and then but the slug hunter barrel and another forearm and have them fitted to the action. If I just bought the shotgun they will not fit any other type of barrel to the action.

Hackleback
03-10-2007, 03:37 PM
I have had an eye on this same project. I am looking for the ultra slug hunter- the one that is built on the 10 ga frame with a 10 ga bbl blank used to make a heavy 12 "bore" barrel. I would like to cast full bore slugs and shoot then out of brass cases most likely using BP. I had my hands on the rifle last fall and let it slip through my fingers. They are still made so getting one is not a problem. Brass cases are not a broblem either. one can buy the Magtech thin walled cases through Midway or have heavy walled cases made by Rocky Mtn. Cartridge @ $5.00 each (lathe turned). I have been told that the NE singleshots are quite accurate (and strong) slug guns.

Single Shot Exchange mag. had an article on a 12 bore Encore. max loads were 7 drams of black and a Dixie slug! Recoil was substantual!!!

NickSS
03-11-2007, 06:40 AM
I read several articles in Single Shot Exchange and in fact have the same project in mind. I hope to get a barrel for my rifle by fall (saving money) and I already have Magtech brass hulls. I have shot them out of my smoothbore double just for kicks and they work fine. I figure that I will try a round ball and determine the diameter after I measure the barrel. I will load an over powder wad, grease wad and a cusion wad then put the ball on top. I may lube the ball with LLA if I get leading. As for powder charge I think I will start with like 100 gr of FFG and work up. I do not want my teeth to rattle to badly.

Hackleback
03-11-2007, 08:43 AM
The one component that I am having trouble finding is the full bore slugs. All of the slug moulds that I have seen are to be used with cup wads. I do not think that Lee will make a mould that big .729 or so.

There are others that are messing around with this idea, check out the 12 ga from he!! thread that can be found here and over a Accurate Reloading. I do not plan on going that radical.

wiljen
03-11-2007, 10:24 AM
Try here:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197214

I suspect this is largely the same project and these guys have done most of the design/figuring already.

Good luck.

Wiljen

omgb
03-11-2007, 10:32 AM
NEI has the mould or Veral Smith could cut you one for a few bucks more. Either way, about $130 get you a mould that fits.

26Charlie
03-11-2007, 02:08 PM
I have the NEF heavy rifle and the NEI mould (their #400, .740-725). And a box of brass shotshells. My hold up is two fold - first, I don't want it to be a scoped gun, so I bought a set of the open sights NEF put on their 10 ga smoothbore "deer" gun. Haven't put them on yet. Second, the brass shotshells are too thin to hold the bullet without some "neck" resizing, so I'll need some kind of sizing arrangement. I don't see this as a big obstacle, because the bullet is a friction fit in a plastic shotshell, so I could use plastic.
This project got shelved three years ago before my move to Maine and has not yet got back to the front burner. I will follow your results with interest.

Buckshot
03-12-2007, 01:02 AM
...............After using the MagTech 32ga 2.5" brass shotshells to create 11.4x42R brass for my Brazilian Comblain .....................

http://www.fototime.com/7C6776752B29618/standard.jpg

...............I became somewhat interested in using it for a cartridge loaded with BP in a breakopen action. The case would make a nifty one for .54 caliber and such is easy to find with a 48" twist. The other would be to use the same outfits' 24ga shells like I do for the Snider .................

http://www.fototime.com/D41D95B7168B29D/standard.jpg

................And have a kind of a modified old world 577/2.5" without having to cut them back. Makes the ole 45-70 look kinda puny. No sweat getting 115grs of 2Fg BP in the Snider, and with some room to spare :-). Never tried seeing how much an untrimmed 24ga would hold.

When I get my milling machine maybe last of this year or first of the next, if the Lord tarries, a project is to make a sporting Snider action and using a cut back 32ga seems a likely candidate for a cartirdge to use in it.

I too will be watching to see what becomes of this project :-)

.................Buckshot

lar45
03-12-2007, 01:14 AM
Look for load info here: They are useing 50 BMG cases with a rim as well as regular plastic 12ga and the Magtech cases. The Magtech are supposedly not as strong as the plastic hulls. Balloon head or something.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=7916
The NEF is supposed to be very strong. If you look a couple of pages in, there is a company selling big 12 bore slugs.
and here:
http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4711043/m/848109883/p/1

There was somebody doing one on the Ultra 20ga, but I haven't heard much.

I picked up one of the replica 1887 lever 12 ga shotguns and will be putting a rifled 12 bore barrel on.
I have an ER Shaw rifled 12 ga blank and a Savage bolt action take off barrell.
The Shaw is .720 x .729" for land and groove.
The Savage is .725 x .730"

here is a pic of some 12 bore bullets that someone here sent to me.(bad memory, don't remember)
I really like the looks of the SWC.
http://www.lsstuff.com/temp/bw-01.jpg

PPpastordon
03-12-2007, 02:46 AM
Well, I sure find this interesting. I had this thought until my shoulder gave out on recoil.
It has been a while since I did this and notes are all in storage. However, memory occasionally turns up correct. IIRC; my NEF bore was about .729 and grove around .735. It seems the interior diameter of the brass shells was larger than this, but I do not recall what it was. Plastic cases were plenty strong enough for anything I ever wanted to fire.

Hackleback
03-12-2007, 10:36 PM
It seems the interior diameter of the brass shells was larger than this, but I do not recall what it was. Plastic cases were plenty strong enough for anything I ever wanted to fire.


That is why some are using the turned brass cases from Rockt Mtn Ctg. The thicker walls have dimentions much like a paper or plastic hull. Does one need to use a brass hull, no, but they shure look nice with a big hunk of lead sticking out the top!:-D

Hackleback
03-12-2007, 10:41 PM
As far as purchasing hard cast, full bore slugs, Dixie Slugs was selling components but I think they are more initrested in selling ammo than components. I thought I saw some posts from someone at Dixie on this site a while ago??

http://www.dixieslugs.com/

If someone has a 12 ga full bore mould, I would like to get some samples.

shooter575
03-13-2007, 12:02 AM
Some of the Austrian imports during the C/W were .72 rifled.They uses a 800 gr + minne.I read on line someone was shooting one.I think they were using slugs though? Dont know of any one making .72 minne moulds. I have a couple rifled .69 m/l with a 750 gr minne and 70 gr ff it dont kick much.Less that a 3" mag

lar45
03-13-2007, 02:06 AM
I have a Lyman 1oz 12 ga hollow base mold, but the slugs drop at .7"
I have read that Buckshot has modified some on his lathe and cut bands to .730"?
With the hollow base mold, you could make a solid plug that was flush with the base for a solid slug. I don't know how much heavier it would be.
I have a Dixie .730 round ball mold.
www.mountainmolds.com used to make a 20 or 12 ga mold. I think he stopped doing them, but you could always ask.