Lee R.E.A.L boolits

[Just Call Me...G]

Howdy All,

Just recently drove 4 hours to visit with my best friend and help him move over the weekend and as a 'thank you' he gave me a T/C Renegade .54.
I am totally new to B/P shooting and am pretty dang excited.

This particular rifle is in need of some TLC and is my new project gun.
My buddy gave me some ffg, wads and ball as well as a spare copy of Lyman's B/P manual.

Beyond the learning curve and the TLC, I also want to start casting for this bad boy.
I placed an order from Midway for some kit and also ordered a Lee R.E.A.L. mould (.54/380gr). I have been doing some research and just want to give this projectile a whirl, may decide on the 300gr R.E.A.L. as well as a Minie mould later on. My buddy is looking around as he has a Lyman mould for .54 ball that he will pass along shortly.

I wanted to see if any of you would be kind enough to submit a pic or two of your R.E.A.L. boolits...in particular anyone who is pan lubing these.
I intend on using a home made beeswax/olive oil lube and have found that a picture truly is worth a thousand words.

Your assistance in this matter is greatly appreciated.


Keep The High Ground,


G

[idahoron]

I don't have any pictures of the finished bullets. This picture is a Lyman plains bullet on the left. The REAL is on the right. The real is a FAR better bullet than the lyman.
I got fair groups with them in my 50.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/2250new_bullets1.jpg


http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/2250325_gr_lee_REAL_50_yard_1st_group_2.jpg
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/22505-25-07_Lee_real_2_5.jpg
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/22505-25-07_Lee_real_1_5.jpg
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/2250325_gr_lee_REAL_100_yard_2.jpg

Since these are a tapered design. I didn't have much luck pan lubing. I ended up heating up the lube and the bullets and dunking them. After they were done they were covered all over with White label lube for BPCR. I got my best results with an over powder wad.
I quite messing with mine after I went to paper patching bullets. If I would have stayed with lubed conicals I would have used the REAL. I hope you have good luck. Ron

[docone31]

I keep my BP lube in a little jar. When I got to the range, I roll them around, and then push the stuff in the lands. I then load.
I have found, if I crumple a patch and put it first under the R.E.A.L. I get slightly better ignition.
I like them. I also found, If I bring a rawhide hammer to the range, I can give the R.E.A.L. a couple of smacks and it loads well.
Good luck with them. Follow the load directions for laoding charge.
I like them.

[Boerrancher]

In over 30 years of shooting ML's, I have never fired a conical. I have been tempted to get a REAL for my 50cals but they just shoot the PRB too well for me to change. The best advice I can give is use real black and not the substitutes. I think the substitutes can be a bit dangerous and will break down over time unlike the Holy Black. The Lyman book you got with it is a good place to start. What I learned I gleaned from an old time Black Powder shooter and the Lyman black powder hand book.

Best wishes,

Joe

[Just Call Me...G]

Hi Ron, Doc and Joe,

Thanks kindly for the info.
I have read and re-read all of the postings for this boolit here and have read a bunch of other articles that came up with a Google search.
I will be shooting plenty of the PRBs once my buddy sends me that Lyman mould, but I also wanted a little diversity.
Part of the reason I am going with the R.E.A.L. boolit is because of the recommendations I have gleaned from C/B.

Prior to inheriting the T/C Renegade I had been casting boolits for my CF guns only.
This is a whole new experience for me and I plan to use whatever information I can, do my own field work and eventually would like to hunt with the Renegade as well as using it for casual shooting.

I read the Lyman book in a day and it has now become a fixed part of my coffee table.
My friend has been shooting BP since he was a youngster and we are in our mid-40s, his advice on powder is try it all.
I am leaning more on GOEX, but for research purposes will try a pound of everything (maybe 2).

Now I have to line up some pure lead (only used WWs in the past) and I still need to strip down the rifle, clean and lube thoroughly as it has some surface rust. I am also looking at maybe re-bluing it.

The mould won't come for a week or so, I have some time and hoping that the weather will turn a bit...it's been rainy/snowy and have had some hellacious winds lately. Would like a calmish day to see what the Renegade can do on paper.

Thank you, gentlemen for your assistance and counsel.
I appreciate this site and all of the individuals on here that make it an informative and friendly place to learn, exchange ideas and receive solid advice.


G

[mooman76]

If you get some of the stick on WWs they are pretty soft and will work. The regular WWs will work ok on RBs too.

[stubshaft]

I have two .54 Renegades and used to shoot a lot of Lyman GP boolits. They are accurate and drop hogs in a heartbeat. A couple of years ago one of my friends gave me a .54 REAL mold and I set about casting some of them. I couldn't believe that they gave me slightly better accuracy in both of my guns. Since that time I have sold the GP mold and cast the Lee only.

[jonas302]

Mr Lee recommends tumble lube in LLA it seems to function for me although I have not got around to testing other lubes its quick easy and worth a try

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_197734e81449dad6c8.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=2235)
5 rounds at 50 yards


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_197734e8144f7359f1.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=2236)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_197734e8144f7359f1.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=2236)

[Just Call Me...G]

Jonas,

Great pics!
Yes, I had given LLA some consideration...I noticed that right here on M/L there seems to be some rather opposing and emphatic camps as to the effectiveness of LLA.

I am a pretty open-to-whatever, learn-as-you-go kinda guy and am not opposed to doing field trials with LLA and the Renegade.
If, like so many here have said it will turn my barrel into a tar covered mess...well, I guess I'll be cleaning it and lesson learned.

If this combo works and I can have a less messy experience...I am all for that.
I have used LLA and white mica in the past, I have also worked up a home made lube for my CF boolits, working up an M/L lube would be just another mini-project.

Stubshaft and Moonman...thank you, fellas, I appreciate your input.


G

[frontier gander]

I use the .510 wads that track of the wolf.com sells. 1000 of them for under $13 shipped! I find it extremely important to getting great accuracy at 75 to 100 yards. Most of my sidelocks want 90gr pyrodex RS with them as well. Both the 250 and 320 REAL prefer this charge. Lubing them is also extremely important, i found it best to melt the lube and throw some wads into it and then use a fork to scrape them out of the little tin pan i use. They do best with the lubed wads.

unlubed wads pictured here just blew apart and my accuracy was so-so.
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm53/thepowerbeltforum/Misc%20Bullets/DSCN2728.jpg

100 yard target with my custom .50 1:48 twist Tenn.mountain rifle with 90gr Pyrodex RS, lubed wad and 250 REAL. The 3 low shots... I must file down my front sight a bit to move the impact upward.
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm53/thepowerbeltforum/Misc%20Bullets/IMGA0002.jpg
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm53/thepowerbeltforum/Cabelas%20Hawken/DSCN3196.jpg

[Rick Hodges]

I have had good luck with the REAL 380 gr. bullet in my .54 TC Scout lubed with TC bore butter or plain Crisco. (the Crisco is messier) I loaded it over 80 or 90 gr.of Goex 3F (fff). Was fairly accurate (3" @ 100 yd.) and devastating when it hit a deer in the boiler room.

[Just Call Me...G]

Frontier,
Those sure are some great pics!

Rick that is some solid data that I can use for my .54...can't wait to get her up-and-running...feeling the need to go huntin' as soon as she is dialed in and I am a bit less green.

Going to call my best friend up and see if he can line up a B/P hog hunt in Kalifornistan
(where he currently resides).

Thank you, gents.


Keep The High Ground,


G

[idahoron]

G once you get that thing up and shooting you might want to Hot Rod it a bit. Here is a picture of one of my "Hot Rod Renegades". It has a Lyman 57 SML peep. A Lyman 17 AML globe front sight with a Lee Shavers BPCR long range insert. It is sighted in out to 300 yards. I can bust milk jugs out that far. Ron

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/Flatlander2.jpg

[Just Call Me...G]

Hi Ron,

That Renegade is sporting a Green Mountain barrel, looks like.
Yes, I have been looking at mods already as all of my firearms have been changed to suit my shooting style and also for pragmatic use.

Been spending a bit of time in October Country, Dixie, Midway, MidSouth Shooters and Natchez.
Are there any other sites I should check out for kit?

That set up you have there is just dandy...what is the cap (sleeve?) on the buttstock?
Thanks for sharing, Ron.

Kind Regards,


G

[mooman76]

Track of the wolf and Cains outdoors are a couple more.

[idahoron]

G, the black thing on the stock is a recoil pad. I didn't want to cut the stock for a pad. Since then I have had a Limb Saver recoil pad installed on my Hawken. That thing needed a recoil pad BAD! If I were to do another one it would be a limb saver. They WORK! Ron

[Old Ironsights]

I really liked the 200gr REAL in my Ruger Old Army...

My .50s like the Traditional Minnie better than the REALs though.

[Just Call Me...G]

Howdy Gents,

Thanks for the tip mooman...went to both sites mentioned, good stuff!
They have been bookmarked.

Ron (and anybody else that wants to jump in), I have started working over the surface rust on the Renegade and also noticed that I have some rust in the barrel as well. I started working on this and I feel that I will be working on the barrel for awhile before I can ascertain what the innards look like.

I have some questions, as I have not seen this kind of rusting in awhile...do you have any recommendations for solvent to help this process along?
I am using Hoppes and CLP intermittently with a copper brush.

I have mineral spirits, acetone, denatured alcohol, heavy duty Engine Brite, diesel and gasoline at my disposal. Of course I also have hot, soapy water too :-)

Should I give some consideration to applying a liberal coating of naval jelly?

Once this whole process is over and I can see the lands and groove, I should be able to determine where I stand. That being said, I have done a few searches for a replacement OEM barrels in .54 with a 1 in 48 twist and the pickins are s-l-i-m.

I shot an e-mail over to T/C and from what I have heard since the S&W merger, should hear back from them towards the end of the year (j/k). We shall see, I am looking forward to a response. I have also gleaned that the Hawken and Renegade barrel are one in the same...can anyone confirm this?

If I decide to swap out the barrel with a Green Mountain which one do I get?
(I kinda dig the stainless, "in the white" look)
Please recommend model and twist rate, keeping in mind that I would like to have the versatility of shooting both PRB and conicals.

Any help that you guys can pass on to the greenhorn would be much appreciated.
A little off-topic (I know) but how can I shoot the R.E.A.L.s if my barrel is not up to spec?


Keep The High Ground,


G

[idahoron]

Navel Jelly. I used it on a inline I bought once, It works well. After you do that use JB's bore paste and finish smoothing it down. The 50 cal Hawken is a 15/16 barrel. The renegade is a 1" across the flats. The 54 cal hawken is a 1" across the flats. I am not sure about all calibers but I also thought the Hawken Barrel was 28" and the Renegade was 26". If you want you could keep this barrel after you clean it up good and make it your round ball gun. Then you could get a fast twist for Sabots and conicals. Here is a link to Green Mountain. Note, the stainless barrels are in limited supply. Your not going to get a 50 cal stainless unless you get the carbine. here is a link.

http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/catalog.aspx?catid=1inchlongrangehunter

Your gun should shoot REAL's good I think. I have had good luck with them with an over powder wad. Ron

[docone31]

I have used Clover as lube on rusted barrels. 5 shots and the barrel got smooth.
I like to pick up the old nasty ones. They clean up real nice, and most are good shooters.
The ones I got, most were put away wet.
The bores cleaned up well.

[Just Call Me...G]

Ron and doc,

Thanks fellas, I appreciate the info.
Dropped an e-mail to GM and asked when they might have the Renegade .54 cal. 1:28 in stainless available, either full size or carbine...they currently have only the blue full size.

Ron, I like your set-up with the Lyman 57/17 sights...had been looking pretty hard at those.
I also fancy the stainless.

I have got some naval jelly and will work on that barrel this weekend. Don't have any JB's, will have to see if I can find some locally or maybe Clover as Doc recommended.

Doc...which grit of Clover do you recommend?
Start with coarse and work down or just go with the 320?

Gents, thanks for all of the help...you guys rock!
Dependent on how current barrel cleans up, replace or not.
If I drop the hammer on the GM barrel will absolutely keep the other for PRB shooting.


G