Annealing .30 carbine brass?

[gishooter]

Hi everyone,
I've never annealed any brass before. Looks like I need to for a lot of LC .30 carbine brass I got. It was unfired pull down. Looks great but I'm getting a lot of split cases with just one firing. No issues with split cases with commercial brass in these two carbines. So I'm thinking the cases need to be annealed.
Could I dip the mouth of the cases into a lead pot for a few seconds to anneal them? Dip them no more than say 3/8 inch into the molten lead?
Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Very frustrated with having all this nice looking brass and afraid I'll lose so much on the first firing![smilie=b:

[georgewxxx]

I have a feeling after you dip one round in the lead you'll give up that idea. Lead tends to plug up inside and coat the outside some. best way for a short case like .30 carbine is stand them up base down, of course, in water that half or third way up the side and use a propane torch to anneal them. Assuming they're not splitting any lower the midsection of the case.

[gishooter]

Yes, lack of speed and lead sticking are two of my concerns. Some of the cases do split 1/2 way down. How long do I heat the cases with the propane torch?

[shotman]

I think you have other problems. LC is soft anyway and new cases spliting? I have reloaded LC brass as many as 10 times and dont think I ever had a case split

[Recluse]

Yes, lack of speed and lead sticking are two of my concerns. Some of the cases do split 1/2 way down. How long do I heat the cases with the propane torch?

The technique I've used for years is the following:

I turn off the lights in my shop. The windows with the shades pulled down give off enough ambient light for me to see and be safe.

I hold each case between my thumb and first two fingers and roll it back and forth while running the propane torch flame over it.

The instant I see it begin to change color, I drop it in the pan of water, grab a new case and repeat.

I generally anneal down to the shoulder on necked cases, and at least one-third of the way down on walled cases. This has served me very well for a long time.

:coffee:

[fatelk]

I've done it exactly the way Recluse does for many years. Works great.

[Bullet Caster]

After much research on this forum, I've found Recluse's method to anneal brass to be quite effective. I had some old military brass that I'd fired (.30-06) and I know the cases were made in the 1940's and needed to be annealed before reloading them. I used a propane torch and held the brass between my thumb and forefinger and rolled them in the flame until it started to burn my fingers, then quenched in a bucket of water. So far, so good. BC

[leadman]

Hornady sells a paste that changes color when the correct temperature is reached. Do not heat the case until it turns red in good light like some say to do.
If you do not buy the paste do as Recluse does.

I would also do just a couple of cases then load these. The reason I write this is it is possible to get the brass too soft and then it may collapse, or the edge of the case mouth may fold if it catches in the die. I know this from experience with the Nagant revolver brass which is very similar in shape to the 30 carbine. The carbine brass is thicker but it would not hurt to test a couple cases first.

[gishooter]

Thanks for all the advice. I've been planning on building or buying a annealing set up eventually but there have always been other priorities on the shopping list. Plus I've never had a problem like this before.
I've used plenty of LC and other military arsenal brass in other calibers ( .30-06, 5.56, 7.62X51, and .45ACP.) Only problem that I recall was some of the FA headstamp .45ACP with 1942 dates seemed to only last a couple loadings before splitting. I eventually culled all the FA headstamped stuff. This is a lot of LC WWII production (1,000)that was broken down for components. Got it from Jeff Bartlett@GI brass.
shotman, why do you think there is another problem?

[Mk42gunner]

First of all, it may be a bad batch of brass; the U.S. Gov't doesn't downgrade ggod ammo. This may be different with ammo that no longer have any weapons in the system, i.e. .30 Carbine ammo.

I haven't tried the dipping in lead method of annealing brass, but the way I understand it to work is:

1. Use cases that still have a fired primer in them.
2. Dip in light oil so the lead doesn't stick.
3. Hold the case with your bare fingers in the lead until the head gets warm/ uncomfortable (this is the part I don't like, bare fingers very close to melted lead). I guess you could watch the color also.
4. Watch a clock while doing step 3, then you can use pliers to hold the rest of the cases.
5. After you pull the oiled case out of the lead, give it a tap on something and the lead is supposed to fly off tyhe case.

I think I will try the lead method next time I need to anneal cases; that or buy (shudder) some tempilac. I haven't had very good luck relying on watching the colors change; although Recluse's way of having a consistant environment makes sence.

Robert

[barkerwc4362]

I also purchased some pulled down LC .30 carbine brass. It had a WWII head stamp. It is obviously to hard and brittle and that is why it was condemned, thus pulled for components. Luckily, I have lots of .30 carbine brass and this bad brass was used once and discarded. I am not sure annealing it will do any good.

Bill

[shotman]

reply
call jeff > LC from ww II the brass is too old > didnt know jeff would mess with that.. Cant fix it It had a lot of zinc and was very brittle.
next If you want about 300 30 carbine that are good PM me

[Skrenos]

Two easy ways to anneal cases:

The first was stated by Bullet Caster. Hold the head in your fingers and heat the mouth/shoulder until the heat creeps up the case and burns your fingers. You will automatically drop the case into the bucket of water as a reflex.

The second way is to put all your cases head down in a large pan and then fill the pan with water to a point that covers the part of the case you do not want annealed. You can then torch the mouths/shoulders. The heat will only creep down the case to the water line. Then the heat will be dispersed into the water. The hottest the water can get is 212F at sea level and that temp is not hot enough to anneal a case head.

[zomby woof]

I have some old LC brass. I've noticed it does feel different when bring trimmed.

[MajorJim]

Some good info here:

http://www.lasc.us/rangingshot19-4.htm

Hornady makes (or used to make) an annealing kit (templaque with a drill attachment that accepts shell holders).

If you are looking for automated versions of an annealer, here you go:

http://www.bench-source.com/id81.html

http://www.kenlightmfg.com/products.html

http://www.giraudtool.com/annealer1.htm

[gishooter]

Well, just got back from the range to try out a small batch (50 rounds) that I annealed the cases with the propane torch prior to loading. Guess what? NO splits! Now I wonder how many loadings I'll be able to get out of them.[smilie=w:

[saint_iverson]

Any temperatures you guys are shooting for specifically? I've heard of using an oven to anneal, more consistant across the batch. But since no temperatures have been stated I cannot tell.

Also, with the oil method, what about if the oil smokes profusely off of the case or catches fire?

[Johnk454]

Any temperatures you guys are shooting for specifically? I've heard of using an oven to anneal, more consistant across the batch. But since no temperatures have been stated I cannot tell.

Also, with the oil method, what about if the oil smokes profusely off of the case or catches fire?

Oven?! PLEASE DON'T!

Never, ever, EVER heat up the base, head or whatever you might call the end with the primer. The entire case will be soft and might fail under pressure and relieving all that high pressure gas out through the bolt...

That said, heating the neck area to about 650deg F while making absolutely sure the rest of the case never goes over 400deg F is a good target. Easy to achieve the 650deg without coming anywhere near the 400deg mark. Tempilaq is your friend.

[o6Patient]

What I have done is pretty much covered by other folks here.
I did built a tray for this out of a shallow stainless bowl. I drilled
a hole in the center and created a shaft with a small machine
bolt. I used a split bushing on the head of the bolt inside the
bowl for the case heads to set in. I put a variable speed drill
in a vice withe shaft tightened in and balanced, when you
add the water it will tell you just how balanced you are.
Set the dill going at a slow speed. I torch the case neck
down to the shoulder, heat will creep down from there to
about where you want it annealed. It usually takes a couple 3
rotations until you get the right heat on them- I look for a
consistent mahogany discoloration and tip them into the water.
do not heat until they glow..the brass will be over annealed at this
point but with that said I have boo booed some a little and tipped
them into the water never noticing any real adverse effects
they will tool harden back in a couple firings. If you do really
get carried away with a couple, until you get your sea legs,
you can just set them aside for your dummy rounds etc.
This is how I've always done it but I'm sure there are better
methods..I'm sort of old school but trying to catch up a little.
Good luck, it's not that hard once you've ruined a few.:kidding:

P.S. the water doesn't have to be all that deep as long as it is
covering the case head and above a little.

[Fluxed]

You can also make or buy a shellholder for use in an electric screwdriver to keep the brass moving while its heated. The part looks like a socket with a hex drive shank - in fact a socket might work just fine for you. Put a little dab of putty in the bottom to lightly stick the case to. Dim the room lights and hold the driver in a steady position with the neck/mouth of the case in the flame. When you see the color change to a dull orange red, flip the screwdriver over and drop the case in a pan of water. After you do a few you will get the hang of it and can start counting the time. Usually 5-6 seconds will do the trick. You can tell when it right when you have a faint blueish color about 1/4 to 1/3 down the cooled off case.

[Miata Mike]

Do you still have this brass? I bought some WWII loads and 25% are splitting....


reply
call jeff > LC from ww II the brass is too old > didnt know jeff would mess with that.. Cant fix it It had a lot of zinc and was very brittle.
next If you want about 300 30 carbine that are good PM me

[Patrick L]

Sorry I'm sort of late to this thread. It is fairly common for GI surplus LC carbine ammo to split, it is a combination of age and possibly some brittleness. I wouldn't have thought annealing was possible due to the straight, short case (splits run the whole length sometimes). However, it appears some with more experience than me have done it successfully. I always thought of annealing as something you do to the neck of a long bottleneck case. Good show!

[trooperdan]

Any temperatures you guys are shooting for specifically? I've heard of using an oven to anneal, more consistant across the batch. But since no temperatures have been stated I cannot tell.

Also, with the oil method, what about if the oil smokes profusely off of the case or catches fire?

Don't use an oven! That will also anneal the head and that is what you want very much to avoid!