A New 45 ACP

[ColColt]

I'm fixing to get a new 45 Auto, like I need another one. I shot one like this a coupe years back at the range as they have a sundry of pistols/revolvers for rent and this was one I wanted to try. Dirty as it was being a range rental, it didn't fail in any way despite the three different kinds of ammo I had with me. I may be wrong but I don't think I'd have the problems with it as I've had with some other 1911's recently and needed one I could take to the range and not worry about stove pipes, bolt over base malfunctions or mag spring issues. These are in a class of their own. What sayest thou about the HK USP Compact 45?

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x220/ColColt/Misc%20Stuff/pop_wm_3366342.jpg

[35remington]

The apple never falls too far from the tree, no matter who makes it.

Examine any new autoloader that you buy for the issues that plague 1911's. Such as making the pistol too small, too much ammo in a given length magazine, underspringing, reduced breechface travel past the magazine well, etc.

The bell tolls for them, too, but probably not to the degree of BS you can buy for 1911's and 1911 accessories that screw the pistol up rather than make it run correctly.

The fortunate event is the aftermarket list of things you can do to these pistols is small, so there's less hokum and bad "improvements."

Always compare a compact variant to a full size pistol of the same model, examining just what you have to give up for that compactness. Some of those things make it less likely it will run.

Didn't say it will or won't.....I said less likely. If you know what the shortcomings and compromises are from the start, you can better address them if any issues do happen.

[ColColt]

From what all I've read this brand of pistol doesn't have the inherent problems with a shorter barrel like the 1911. I can only vouch for how well that one did I rented and how well it performed although being filthy like most range rentals. The case is not closed on this one-I'm still chewing on it. It would be nice to take a pistol to the range and not have any hangups for a change.

I'm taking two 1911's(both commander sized) to the range in the morning with new springs for the mags and we'll see if they do better than last time. You'd think that after 100 years they'd get it right.

[35remington]

It's not that after 100 years we didn't get it right.

Rather, we had a whole 100 years to get it wrong, and we did. Its pinnacle of reliability probably was when Colt was the sole maker, the pistol was produced to specifications, and it was fed with the original magazines. It's been downhill fast from there.

Fewer "inherent" problems with this pictured pistol than the 1911? Probably. It hasn't had anyone mess with it, or think that they knew "better" than the original designer, as have so many with the 1911.

The reliability we now have with the 1911 is a consequence of that.

It can be very, very reliable, but usually only after you fix "improvements" that are nothing at all like "improvements." Or obtain one that's been messed with the least, and stuck closest to the original intent of the designer. That shouldn't be too terribly surprising.

[Ed K]

One thing to consider is that HK is a little like Colt in not really wanting to deal with civilian sales. Part availability is difficult, magazines are expensive, etc. Still I must add my one and only HK auto was the highest quality auto I've ever owned.

[NickSS]

I own several 1911s and two of them are officers models with 3.5 inch barrels the rest are full sized pistols. I have found that Magazines are the big issue with them and depending upon what ammo you are using the right magazine makes a big difference in them running. You have to find the right mags for your guns. Also it is not a good idea to leave and auto mag loaded for long periods of time and rotating mags that you carry is important for reliability. Some guns are more prone to issues than others but all of them have issues from time to time. I have been shooting 1911s for over 45 years and when I carry one for seld defense I load it with hard ball and forget about all the new types of bullets as in my experience hard ball is the most reliable in that platform.

[ColColt]

This morning I took the Commander out for another trial run at the range. I took three mags, the CM USGI with Wolff#11 S prings, 7 round CM mag with same springs and hybrid follower and an update for one of the original 8 round mags that came with the Commander which is a CM with a Tripp 7 round update kit withi spring and their follower.

I had zero malfunctions with neither of those magazines and three different types of boolits, the 230 gr FMJ, 230 gr GDHP and 200 gr SWC a la HG#68. None of the mags gave a problem with these rounds and I was grinning like a mule eating briars after I left.

35remington-You were right about the issues being resolved by replacing the springs and the addition of the EGW small radius FP stop. I noticed the pistol didn't seem to torque right like it use to and I could stay on target better in rapid fire. Kudos for helping me out with that problem and I still must knock on wood as I've learned not to count the chickens before they hatch. I'll try this again.

Another interesting part of today was before I went into the shooting area, I noticed an HG USP Compact in 45 in the showcase(along with others) and decided to rent it. It felt good, shot good and I gave it the same treatment as the Commander-all three varieties of boolits went through it with nary a hitch. That surprised me due to the filthy magazine. The pistol itself looked like they may have cleaned it at some point but the magazine was atrocious.

All in all, a most satisfying day and in fact quite a bit of difference from last time. Ed K-I see no problem with parts. the HK Pro forum has links to any part needed. Yep, the mags ain't cheap but that's the price you pay. SIG's aren't exactly cheap either and I think I'd lean more toward HK than SIG. They've went down in quality, IMO, from the P220 I had back in 1993.

[Char-Gar]

I have never owned or shot an HK pistol, but the local Border Patrol carry them in 40 cal and think highly of them.

I have owned various 1911s and a Sig P220 in 45 ACP. The Sig's function was flawless as well.

[pdawg_shooter]

I own several 1911s and two of them are officers models with 3.5 inch barrels the rest are full sized pistols. I have found that Magazines are the big issue with them and depending upon what ammo you are using the right magazine makes a big difference in them running. You have to find the right mags for your guns. Also it is not a good idea to leave and auto mag loaded for long periods of time and rotating mags that you carry is important for reliability. Some guns are more prone to issues than others but all of them have issues from time to time. I have been shooting 1911s for over 45 years and when I carry one for seld defense I load it with hard ball and forget about all the new types of bullets as in my experience hard ball is the most reliable in that platform.

I have 4 military 1911 mags that have been loaded since the 60s. Only time they are NOT loaded is when I am reloading them at the range or cleaning them prior to reloading them and putting them away. Still work like the day I bought them. The "aftermarket" mags? Eh, not so much.

[Hang Fire]

It's not that after 100 years we didn't get it right.

Rather, we had a whole 100 years to get it wrong, and we did. Its pinnacle of reliability probably was when Colt was the sole maker, the pistol was produced to specifications, and it was fed with the original magazines. It's been downhill fast from there.

Fewer "inherent" problems with this pictured pistol than the 1911? Probably. It hasn't had anyone mess with it, or think that they knew "better" than the original designer, as have so many with the 1911.

The reliability we now have with the 1911 is a consequence of that.

It can be very, very reliable, but usually only after you fix "improvements" that are nothing at all like "improvements." Or obtain one that's been messed with the least, and stuck closest to the original intent of the designer. That shouldn't be too terribly surprising.

I agree, the so called 1911 pistol smiths who change and fine tune it grotesquely ad nauseam are so tiresome. It is hard to improve upon perfection which performs flawlessly as purpose designed.

[crabo]

I shot one of those in 40 S&W, and liked it quite a bit. I'm a 1911 person, but it shot well enough that it impressed me, more than my Glock 23, which I no longer have, and a 9mm M&P. It felt good in my hand.

[Tom W.]

And they are made just 50 miles from me..... I'm trying to find a way to obtain gainful employment there..:bigsmyl2:

[ColColt]

And they are made just 50 miles from me..... I'm trying to find a way to obtain gainful employment there..:bigsmyl2:

All USP Compact 45s are completely made and assembled in Germany...unless you mean the Glock.

[wildphilhickup]

HK P9S, 45 ACP. My first HK pistol. And it is Sehr Gut!

[bryonbush]

ive fired about 800 rounds through my buddies HK USP 40 one day at the range and iver had a problem at all. the trigger is much like a beretta 92.there is something about them that takes some getting used to. the mag release is a at the trigger guard and that will serriously mess with your mind till you get used to it not being by your thumb, but if your used to a 1911 the safety will be nothing new. i think you will really enjoy it if you buy it. they also hold their re sale value like no other gun out there.

[35remington]

ColColt, here's hoping your upgrades have fixed the problem for good. At least you're headed in the right direction for starters.

NickSS, short 1911's are extremely twitchy about magazine spring strength, as you have found. I wonder if the extreme size reduction has been worth it in terms of endlessly worrying if the magazine has been left loaded "too long?" My answer is obviously "NO."

I leave my seven shot magazines with Wolff springs loaded all the time for my full size and Commanders. Never had to worry about rotating them either. Some I've just plain forgotten how long they've been loaded.

Still work. Maybe because I have enough room for a spring of proper strength that isn't overworked and I don't shoot a pistol that tends to outrun the magazine.

[ColColt]

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that all will be well now. Interesting that I have rad on other forums how others claim they've never had a problem with this or that magazine and have never felt the need to go to extra power springs because what they had worked. Just a short excerpt from such a one...

"these extra power springs are not necessary. But we also have two Colt /Check-Mate standard length 7 round GI type follower, as well as three of the 8 round with the flex follower magazines and all of them work just fine.

None of these magazines to my knowledge have any special extra power ($$) magazine springs in them. I keep reading the threads and posts about magazine issues and we just don't seem to have them. I almost think my magazines must be defective because they work."


Well, apparently this doesn't hold water for me, my mags and pistols. One thing I am curious about is what affect does keeping a magazine fully loaded over time have on the feed lips? It would seem after a certain amount of time, while the springs may still function, it could possible spread the lips to some degree. That's a lot of pressure on the lips.

[Tom W.]

HK's are also made in Columbus, Ga.

http://hk-usa.com/index.asp

[2wheelDuke]

The H&K USP 45 Compact is a great little pistol. I was issued one in the academy because the department was running short on full sized USP's.

I only have 2 issues with the USP compact. 1 is that the magazine capacity is on the low side at 8 rounds (single stack.) The other is that it's not very compact. It's hardly any smaller than a full size USP. That wasn't an issue for me because I was wearing it on a duty belt. A related gripe is that the magazines from the full size USP do not fit. If you have a Glock 21 as your service gun, you can carry a 30 for backup and your 21 mags will fit.

It's not much of an issue, but I'm not really fond of H&K's proprietary accessory rail. Sure there's adapters to put regular M1913 lights on them, but then you need a wrench for the adapter.

I'm not sure if the recoil spring/guide rod assembly is the same on the USP Compacts anymore or not. "Mine" had a polymer buffer on the spring, as opposed to the double spring on the USP full size and my compact Glock I have now.

Open carry isn't legal here, so I wouldn't have one for an off-duty carry gun. I picked up a Glock 30 which is a good bit smaller than the USP Compact. It's a 3rd Gen G30 so it's also got a standard rail that I can use to mount a tactical light and remove it without tools.

[35remington]

If the magazines are poorly heat treated and are not really spring steel after this process, then yes, they'll spread.

If they're good, they won't. The GI magazine is the only type that has been the reason for the "40 years loaded and still work fine" statements, because the other types did not exist then.

It's not unreasonable to state that extra power springs "aren't needed"..........until they are. If springs are less than they were formerly by cramming in an extra shot, then problems are more likely. Not guaranteed, but more likely.

Causes of problems are diagnosable and treatable. Just because someone has not experienced any issues does not mean it is universally true that all others will have the same experience.

One time I was at the range and a fellow shooting next to me remarked after seeing my Ruger P97 that it was "a work no matter what" pistol.

My response was it was a "jam no matter what" pistol on the second to last or last shot on every fourth magazine or so. And proceeded to demonstrate for him.

This with the original flush fit 8 shot magazines, which have a Devel follower, a weak spring, and a crimp intended to hold the last round in place in the magazine lips. The crimp's in the wrong place, BTW.

I got sick of this, found a few P90 seven shot magazines in the last few years and recently sent out an appeal for more, which a guy on this forum was kind enough to respond to. The eighth shot absolutely messed things up with this pistol in a flush fit magazine. You couldn't run fast enough to give me a 8 shot P97 or 345 magazine, no way, no how.

So it doesn't just happen to a 1911. Screw things up enough and you can mess up any autoloader.

[ColColt]

HK's are also made in Columbus, Ga.

http://hk-usa.com/index.asp

Yes, but the USP model is made in Germany. At least that's what I was told at the HKPro forum.

2wheelDuke-I have no problem with magazines holding 7 or eight shots. My G30 will hold ten and the G19 even more but I wouldn't feel under gunned with my 8 shot 4506 or 7 shot 1911's. to me, and I haven't seen up close, a USP Compact and full size USP together but have seen photos and the full size model looks substantially larger than the Compact-even more so that the difference between a 4506 and the 4566. The current Compact still has the polymer buffer with the recoil spring but you're only dealing with one spring and not two like in the full size model. I've never liked a two spring setup for recoil springs and that's mostly why I sold my 457.The springs were hard to come by and Wolff doesn't make them. You can only get them from S&W. Also, you can use the 10 round
mags in the Compact just like you can use the larger G21 mags in the G30 but both will stick out a bit.

I think the problems I was having with the two 1911's I have was mostly confined to springs as it was rather odd that after changing the factory springs in three different mags and a follower and spring change in another, I had no more jams so, spring changing worked for me. As I mentioned before, I like to think the change in FP stops helped as well.