SBH Forcing Cone Erosion

[Saint]

Have had my .44 for less than a year now. I put about 200 rounds a month through it mostly with 240 gr. Hornady xtp's sitting on 20 grains of 2400. I noticed when I first bought it that the forcing cones on these guns all seem to have a rather rough finish but recently it seems like the minor imperfections in the forcing cone seem to be growing. I have noticed that whenever I fire jacketed bullets regardless of the powder I will get a pretty significant amount of flame from between the cylinder and the forcing cone. I don't really have a way to cast my own bullets because a steady lead supply is too hard to come by. I have tried some commercial .429 swcbb and even though they help a lot with the flames coming from the forcing cone they also leave me with more lead in the barrel than down range. I have tried both 2400 and Unique in various charge weights and have concluded as have most sbh shooters that this gun just needs a bigger boolit. So on to the questions, is the erosion normal for jacketed ammo? Also, is there a good commercial bullet I can get that may help with this. As much as I love full house .44 mag loads I really love this gun so I don't mind lowering the power if it will save the gun. I have access to pretty much all jacketed .44 bullets as well as laser cast, and Barnes plated bullets. I do have a cabelas relatively close so most anything they carry is an option. Thanks for any suggestions.

[376Steyr]

If you can't cast, I'd suggest trying a Speer or Hornady swaged lead SWC with a maximum charge of Bullseye. Maybe they'll bump up to give a better gas seal and reduce your leading problem. The commercial-cast .429 slugs tend to be rock-hard, with lubes that are questionable in their effectiveness, and are not well suited for guns with oversize cylinder throats.

You state "...this gun just needs a bigger boolit." Have you measured your throat sizes?

[Lefty SRH]

Can you post a few pics of the erosion?

[Saint]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/39124f19570c986ae.jpg
This was the best image I could take with my phone. The throats measure at .430.

[Alan]

That looks ....excessive... for ~2500 rounds of ammo. I would do an online search for local suppliers. Surely a .430-431" isn't THAT hard to come by.

These guys have 240 SWCBB in .430-433:
http://www.dardascastbullets.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=dardas&Product_Code=44240SWCBB500&Category_Code=44SWC
.

[44man]

I notice it is nice and even around the edges, shows good alignment.
It is a little worse then mine, deeper cuts. Mine is just sand blasted and the inside of the cone is still smooth.
I would change powders.
Mine has had a steady diet of 296 since about 1980 and is close to 63,000 heavy loads, years of Hornady .430" bullets for IHMSA and for years, heavy cast up to 330 gr.
Slower powder will bead blast a little but extend the pressure peak down the bore more.
That is not gas leakage past the bullet, it is pressure peaking too early. You have too much fire before the bullet is in the bore.
That could also be an indication of magnum primer use that moves the bullet out of the brass too early and gas squirts past the base.

[Char-Gar]

I have never shot enough jacketed bullets in any sixgun to experience forcing cone errosion. I just shoot cast and keep on shooting for decades.

I would recommend you buy some good hand cast bullets and shoot away. I see no reason to shoot those dreadful little yellow thingies.

I have bought several thousand hand cast bullets for my sixguns of late from Matt's Bullets. Matt is one of our board members. IIRC his web site is mattsbullets.com . His prices are very good and the qauality high.

[runfiverun]

i am with james you have a big gap and the powders burn rate is exploiting that.
i'd swap to a faster or slower owder and see if it changes anything.
the bigger boolit would also help with neck tension getting things up to speed sooner.
a powder like h-110 or going the other way to herco.
ball powder has had a pretty good reputation for flame cutting with some bullet weights.
my 357 max has flame cutting but no erosion like you show, i have gone to a super slow powder for it to try and eliminate some of these issues.

[Larry Gibson]

I'd switch powders also to H110, 296 or Blue Dot for use with the magnum level jacketed bullet loads.

Larry Gibson

[Saint]

A little more detail on the load o have been shooting in it. Hornady XTP 240, 20 grains of 2400. Winchester large pistol primer. Winchester white box once fired brass.

[44man]

A little more detail on the load o have been shooting in it. Hornady XTP 240, 20 grains of 2400. Winchester large pistol primer. Winchester white box once fired brass.
Try 23.5 to 24 gr of 296 and a Fed 150 primer.
The trouble is that gas cuts have started and are over twice as deep as mine. I have seen pictures of the back end of the barrel splitting to the frame. You need to try and slow that down. You can not eliminate the huge fireball from the gap (shoot at dark once).
The good thing is that they will not take away accuracy.
Tighter gaps will also increase pressure squirt like turning the hose nozzle down.
There are things I ignore and until damage is too great, this is one of them.
Larger calibers have less damage compared to high intensity rounds like the .357 max, the .454. the .460 and I have nothing about the .500 S&W yet.
Your .44 might last for many, many years. Don't get overly excited.

[fecmech]

I have never shot enough jacketed bullets in any sixgun to experience forcing cone errosion. I just shoot cast and keep on shooting for decades.

Chargar--I evidently have more talent in that respect than you do;) This SBH has less than a box of jacketed bullets through it over the years. It has had many kegs of 296 through it shooting silhouette and .434 throats (which I was ignorant of until joining Cast Boolits a few years back). Even with that throat (and .433 bullets) it will do 2" off bags at 50 yds.

[44man]

Chargar--I evidently have more talent in that respect than you do;) This SBH has less than a box of jacketed bullets through it over the years. It has had many kegs of 296 through it shooting silhouette and .434 throats (which I was ignorant of until joining Cast Boolits a few years back). Even with that throat (and .433 bullets) it will do 2" off bags at 50 yds.
A wonderful way to put the man at ease! :grin: It is amazing just how much a revolver can take.
Saint will be OK. He has to stop worrying so much. It is like a scratch on bluing of a new gun. It hurts but will be forgotten.
I look at my SBH and say "you old lady, your hole is worn but you still perform." :bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2:

[Saint]

I am not overly concerned about it at the moment. I still have a few boxes of my pet load that I plan to shoot but I am thinking more long term. I will start by changing the powder and go from there. I am going to try to minimize the flame from the forcing cone cylinder gap and see if it slows the erosion.

[odfairfaxsub]

wow thats one worn freaking forcing cone. wow

[Hang Fire]

May have missed it, but what does your barrel/cylinder face gap measure?

I got an email last night to take a look on the Ruger forum. Seems that some guys have been shimming under the cylinder ratchet on the recoil shield to close the B/C gaps without exceeding cartridge rim head space..

[Saint]

That's a good question, how would I measure that? I am guessing a feeler gauge.

[Iron Mike Golf]

You might consider a heavier bullet, too.

Another powder to try might be IMR 4227.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
2400 is not a fast powder. I have used alo of it in 2 different 44s.:Fire::Fire:

[badbob454]

Chargar--I evidently have more talent in that respect than you do;) This SBH has less than a box of jacketed bullets through it over the years. It has had many kegs of 296 through it shooting silhouette and .434 throats (which I was ignorant of until joining Cast Boolits a few years back). Even with that throat (and .433 bullets) it will do 2" off bags at 50 yds.

post 12 .fecmech is that a crack around the forcing cone ? looks like its half- way around the barrel
forcing cone .. check it before shooting it anymore ..

[Hang Fire]

Either feeler gauges or pad the barrel with leather in a vise and check with dial indicator, which how I most often do mine.

[S.R.Custom]

post 12 .fecmech is that a crack around the forcing cone ? looks like its half- way around the barrel
forcing cone .. check it before shooting it anymore ..

No, that's the rough, exposed edge of the thread in the receiver where the barrel screws through. It looks worse than it is due to the accumulation of blast crud.



Another powder to try might be IMR 4227.

Indeed. The 4227 powders are single base, and burn cooler as a result. The result is less erosion. A side benefit is less fouling and/or leading w/ cast bullets.

[44man]

You might consider a heavier bullet, too.

Another powder to try might be IMR 4227.
4227's scare me in the .44. :holysheep
I tried them at first when I shot IHMSA because everyone was using it. I found it super accurate if shot slow and gun kept cold. Not so when the gun got hot from shooting or the sun. Pressures and velocity would climb fast.
It was wonderful in the .357 max but never goes in my .44's again.
296 never changed even when the gun was hot.

[suba]

4227's scare me in the .44. :holysheep
I tried them at first when I shot IHMSA because everyone was using it. I found it super accurate if shot slow and gun kept cold. Not so when the gun got hot from shooting or the sun. Pressures and velocity would climb fast.
It was wonderful in the .357 max but never goes in my .44's again.
296 never changed even when the gun was hot.

From what I understand 4227 is cold stable, but don't all powders increase pressure when the temp rises. I mean take any gun loaded with safe pressure @60* and shoot it in the desert. Big difference.

Me ? I don't shoot competition .....well I used to shoot 50BMG and took second place in a national match even though I worked up the load the day before shooting. I like 4227. In fact I love it. They say if your gun won't shoot with 4227 it won't shoot. I can drive nails with my FA 454 with it. No, I don't overheat my barrel, so don't know if the POI changes, but I don't care. What matters is where the first and second shots go. That's all...

[Swampman]

Would recutting the forcing cone to 11 degrees clean it up?

[44man]

From what I understand 4227 is cold stable, but don't all powders increase pressure when the temp rises. I mean take any gun loaded with safe pressure @60* and shoot it in the desert. Big difference.

Me ? I don't shoot competition .....well I used to shoot 50BMG and took second place in a national match even though I worked up the load the day before shooting. I like 4227. In fact I love it. They say if your gun won't shoot with 4227 it won't shoot. I can drive nails with my FA 454 with it. No, I don't overheat my barrel, so don't know if the POI changes, but I don't care. What matters is where the first and second shots go. That's all...
I think it is caliber specific, works great in some.