pressure question in 45 Colt

[superior]

I recently loaded up some Lee 452-300rf's for my Rossi M92. The load is 19.5 grains Alliant 2400 and they shoot great in the carbine. My question is: is that same load safe for my New model Ruger Blackhawk? I've read up quite a bit on the subject with many of the articles conflicting. Some place the safe working pressure at 32000 cup while others claim closer to 40k. I really don't see the need to use these loads in the revolver, but I wanted to know if they would be safe in it, just in case. My normal revolver load with that boolit is 12.5 grains HS-6, and that will shoot through anything on the ranch lengthwise. I would really appreciate some feedback from those of you with alot of RBH experience.
Kind regards, Superior

[tek4260]

I have no idea of the pressure you would be running with the load listed off the top of my head, but I will say that the Blackhawk will handle as much or more than the Rossi. I am talking about the regular Blackhawk, not the smaller framed flat top/New Vaquero.

[Paul105]

Here's some data from one of John Linebaugh's articles:

http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm



Starting Loads Maximum Loads
Bullet Powder Grs. Vel. CUP Powder Grs. Vel. CUP
310 cast H-110 21.5 1109 24,400 H-110 23.5gr 1,316 32,000
310 cast H 4227 21 1016 24.900 H 4227 22.5gr 1,164 30,000
310 cast #2400 17 1013 24.400 #2400 19.0gr 1,172 29,400
310 cast HS-6 12.5 994 25.000 HS-6 13.5gr 1,043 29,800


THIS DATA CAN ALSO BE USED WITH 300 GR SIERRA, HORNADY XTP & SPEER BULLETS.
JACKETED BULLETS WILL RUN MUCH SLOWER VELOCITIES DUE TO FRICTION.
DO NOT INCREASE POWDER CHARGES TO GAIN THIS VELOCITY BACK

------------------------------- End of Linebaugh Info -----------------------------

That Lee bullet has two crimp groves -- pressure will be higher (how much I don't know) when you load to the upper crimp grove (shortest OAL).

The length and crimp grove location on the Lee is very close to the Hornady 300gr XTP (w/two crimp groves). Hornady's max for the 300gr XTP crimped in the upper crimp grove (listed OAL 1.580") is 18.0gr of 2400. This is from the 5th Edition Hornady manual.

FWIW,

Paul

[superior]

I have no idea of the pressure you would be running with the load listed off the top of my head, but I will say that the Blackhawk will handle as much or more than the Rossi. I am talking about the regular Blackhawk, not the smaller framed flat top/New Vaquero.

Thanks for the replies. The Rossi with it's vertical locking lugs will handle the same pressure as the Winchester '86, if not more. The Blackhawk is limited by the thickness of the cylinder and is not as strong.

[Wireman134]

Guns and Ammo did a torture test on the Puma / Rossi in 454 and could not get it to shake loose after 10,000 rounds of full house ammo, stating that all that happened was it got smoother and more accurate at the end. Tolerances and head space were measured carefully throughout the test with no ill effect. Just make sure your chamber isn't to big to cause case separation. That load is around 30K CUP and the 454 goes to 65K psi. Blackhawks can handle 34Kpsi. for three lifetimes according to Linbaugh. Do you load the Lee boolit short in the 92? I'd consider loading it long for the Blackhawk. I've run the XTP short loaded with 19gr. of 2400 but decided to use H110 for my top loads for the lower pressure benefits. Also make sure your throats are .452" to ease the strain on the cylinder.

[superior]

Guns and Ammo did a torture test on the Puma / Rossi in 454 and could not get it to shake loose after 10,000 rounds of full house ammo, stating that all that happened was it got smoother and more accurate at the end. Tolerances and head space were measured carefully throughout the test with no ill effect. Just make sure your chamber isn't to big to cause case separation. That load is around 30K CUP and the 454 goes to 65K psi. Blackhawks can handle 34Kpsi. for three lifetimes according to Linbaugh. Do you load the Lee boolit short in the 92? I'd consider loading it long for the Blackhawk. I've run the XTP short loaded with 19gr. of 2400 but decided to use H110 for my top loads for the lower pressure benefits. Also make sure your throats are .452" to ease the strain on the cylinder.

I load them short for the Rossi. I was hesitant to touch one off in the Ruger. I think I'll save the ones I made for the rifle. A slower powder in the Ruger should be more forgiving, considering differences in crimp tension etc.. Overall, it sounds like I'd be safe using the 2400 hot loads, but unless I hear from someone who shoots them regularly, why take a chance? Thanks all.

[Wireman134]

Sorry, I haven't loaded my 452-306PBRF Lee boolit that hot with my lots of 2400. I will be loading them long when I do, as I have 5lbs. + of H2400 that is reserved for the .45 Colt and my BH. 17.2grs. has worked well for my uses.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Heaviest boolit I have fired in any of my RBH 45 Colts is the Lee RFN 265 grainer. Worked up to 19 grains of 2400 and decided there was no need for me to get any hotter. That load also shoots nicely in the 2 Rossi 45 Colt lever carbines.
I think 19.5 grains of 2400 with a 300 grainer is something I would feel happy with in a .454 BFR. I know the RBH is one stout revolver but I care not to be the shooter who finds one that maybe had a flawed cylinder and vented the overpressure towards the clouds. Just me.. I saw the results of a S&W that decided one day to fly apart with max+ loads. Shooter (my dad) was not injured thankfully but his S&W was wrecked. Top of cylinder went up snapping the top strap at the rear and peeled it forward and up. Never found the cylinder top.
Mike in Peru

[jwp475]

here's some data from one of john linebaugh's articles:

http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm



starting loads maximum loads
bullet powder grs. Vel. Cup powder grs. Vel. Cup
310 cast h-110 21.5 1109 24,400 h-110 23.5gr 1,316 32,000
310 cast h 4227 21 1016 24.900 h 4227 22.5gr 1,164 30,000
310 cast #2400 17 1013 24.400 #2400 19.0gr 1,172 29,400
310 cast hs-6 12.5 994 25.000 hs-6 13.5gr 1,043 29,800


this data can also be used with 300 gr sierra, hornady xtp & speer bullets.
Jacketed bullets will run much slower velocities due to friction.
Do not increase powder charges to gain this velocity back

------------------------------- end of linebaugh info -----------------------------

that lee bullet has two crimp groves -- pressure will be higher (how much i don't know) when you load to the upper crimp grove (shortest oal).

The length and crimp grove location on the lee is very close to the hornady 300gr xtp (w/two crimp groves). Hornady's max for the 300gr xtp crimped in the upper crimp grove (listed oal 1.580") is 18.0gr of 2400. This is from the 5th edition hornady manual.

Fwiw,

paul



+1.......

[Lloyd Smale]

your not going to blow up either gun with that load. Its probably all youd want to go in a ruger single action for the long haul though. I shot a vaquero loose when i was young and dumb shooting 320s ahead of 27 grains of 110 but that load is quite a bit stouter then your load and a couple thousand of them were shot over that summer. the 92 will eat even that load for lunch. It will take full power 454 loads which are far stouter then that. One thing ill say though is after i went through this stupid stage and had that ruger rebuilt by clements i started shooting lighter loads through my 45s. A 300 at 1100 fps will kill ANYTHING and kill it just as dead and just a quick as running them at 1300fps. Its not only eaiser on the gun but easier on the shooter as well. A good rule of thumb for a LARGE framed ruger 45 is about any 44 mag powder charge listed for a given weight of bullet will be safe in a 45colt too. the cylinders are a bit thinner on the 45s but the case is bigger so pressures are less. Just keep in mind that this advice is for a BIG framed ruger not the new smaller ones. One other thing ill touch on that was allready mentioned. I shoot alot of 2400 and aa9 at mag levels in 44s and 45s but when a guy really wants to push the envelope 110 is a much better powder to do it with.

[44man]

All of you that use H110 which IS a good powder, should try 296 in the BH, SBH and SRH.
Now don't get into the same powder stuff, I know. But I never duplicated the accuracy until I used the RH. The RH just loves H110. It hates 296!
Today with Hodgdon handling both, I don't know if they get a large bulk batch and split it between H110 and 296 canisters but I suspect not from accuracy tests. I think each still gets a separate batch.
It is something I have never been able to work around. I could never shoot the groups I do unless I had both powders to test one against the other. Even all the 29's I had preferred 296.
It comes down to what your gun likes best. This has never proven to be a lot to lot thing either, I used many lots of both.
The only difference I find from lot to lot is tweaking the powder measure for the same weight.

[shotman]

If the BH was like the one I had the hot loads would split the cases. 45 colt brass is thin. May be ok with starline. I got a box of the 45 colt Leverevolition by Hornady that is some thicker brass. Its mild in a 460 S&W but would say its a hand full in a BH

[44man]

If the BH was like the one I had the hot loads would split the cases. 45 colt brass is thin. May be ok with starline. I got a box of the 45 colt Leverevolition by Hornady that is some thicker brass. Its mild in a 460 S&W but would say its a hand full in a BH
Not so, .45 brass is no different today then .44 brass. It is very strong. The brass will take .454 and .460 pressures even if the gun will not. The brass is the same thickness.