.308 or .338 Lapua

[newcastter]

So I am looking into getting a new rifle and I want something that can reach out to up to 1000yds and pack a knock your *** over punch.

[Ben]

Is this a trick question ? That would be the 338 Lapua ! !

http://www.lapua.com/en/story-of--338-lapua-magnum.html

[Lefty SRH]

Yep .338 Lapua.

[waksupi]

[smilie=1: Check the brass prices!

[Doc Highwall]

Not only brass prices but bullets and powder.

I will stick with the 308.

[rockrat]

How about a rifle in 338 Edge. IIRC, it is the 300 win mag necked up to 338. Cheap brass

[rjathon]

The .340 Weatherby is an ideal case capacity for .338.

Ballistic Coefficient is much more important than muzzle velocity at
long range. 300 grain bullets lobbed in are devastating.

Russ

[John 242]

What are you trying to accomplish?
What is your planned use for the rifle?
How often are you going to shoot past 500m and what are you intending to shoot at?
Plan to shoot the rifle every week, month, year?

Just curious, but I think knowing what you intend to do with the rifle is a important consideration before choosing a cartridge.

.308 is cheap and available. Ammo for a .338 Lapua is far from cheap.

[bob208]

if you want more punch then a .308 or .30-06. why not a 8mm with europen loads they are hotter then the u.s. loads.

[newcastter]

I did some price shopping and found the Lapua was $115 a box I will probably stick with the .308 I will definatly look into some of the other calibers that have been suggested.
I have been watching tha military channel alot lately and they had been talking about those 2 particular calipers alot in regards to long range devestating rounds
After seeing the size of the .338 rnd I dont think I want to shoot that size round out of a bolt action.
I want a really accurate long range rifle that sends out a nice size piece of lead
Planned use is fun maybe hunt if it wont cut the animal in half
I wouldn't shoot past 500m very often
I would shoot it as often as I could once or twice a month

[KohlerK91]

I think the 338 lapua round is a tacti "cool" rifle cartridge. Anyone that has one has more dollars than sense.

Factory ammo over 5 bucks a shot. No wonder the other ammo companies are making now.


308 is an awsome round that is everywhere and you could prob shoot 5-10 as much as lapua for the same price.

Not too many pepole can shoot the 338 lapua to it FULL potential anyway. 1600yrds

[DCM]

There are a lot of calibers besides the 338 that are more likely to keep you, your wallet, your shoulder and your brain happy. Even for long range hunting.

[swheeler]

How about a rifle in 338 Edge. IIRC, it is the 300 win mag necked up to 338. Cheap brass

I think it is actually the 300RUM necked up to 338

[frankenfab]

I have a .338/378 Weatheryby MkV Accumark. The cartridge is basically the same ballistics as the .338 Lapua, with a belt. I ignore the belt and neck size the fired cases for the best accuracy.

It's a gun that I really couldn't afford but always dreamed of. After my Dad died, I took some of the money he left me, and ordered my rifle, and went on a hunt at a ranch in Colorado.

We never got to hunt together, my Dad and I. He always said deer hunting was dangerous, and we would get shot, but then when he got older, during the period when we weren't seeing eye to eye very well, he bought a Remington 700 and started deer hunting.

My "Gator" as I call it, is overkill/excess/ whatever adjective you would like to apply. The .308 is certainly King in many categories, But I love my rifle, and I feel like I own a Ferrari when I shoot the thing. And, since I bought that rifle, I no longer have more money than sense!:kidding:

Here's a video of me shooting a Fallow deer at 240 yards through both shoulders.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKS6s_LyqMI


:popcorn:

[daschnoz]

I would go with the 308. Get 175gr Sierra Match Kings and Varget. Get the pill above 2600fps at the muzzle and you'll be supersonic out to 800yds.

Yes, I like the 308.

[rjathon]

Actually if massive power isn't important then I would highly recommend the 6.5x55 Swede. The B.C. of the 140-142 gr vld bullets is quite high and they will easily stay supersonic to 1000 yds, hitting with more thump than a .308 and significantly less recoil.

I sporterized an M 96 once and it would keep rds. on a pie plate at a measured 1000 yards. Not bad for an outfit over 100 years old.

If even less recoil is desired a fast twist 6BR shooting 105gr VLDs will stay supersonic to 1000 yds.

Either of the above with a muzzle break will let you see impact through your scope.

I had a friend who rigged up a 25 '06 with 108 gr JLK bullets zooming out of his long barrel at 3400 fps that out performed his 300 mag other than impact energy.

Long range is much more fun with low recoil and relatively cheap reloading.

Russ

[Multigunner]

A friend built a thousand yard match rifle on a Whitworth Mauser action he picked up dirt cheap when the gentleman who had ordered it passed away before taking delivery.
He chose the .25-06. In reading up on the .25-06 I found it had several times set records for the smallest one thousand yard groups back when it first came out.

The .40+ calibers have been getting some development as sniper cartridges for use past 1000 yards. Don't remember much about these I think the one I saw demonstrated on a TV program was a .416 or something in that class.

Back in WW1 the British liked to use heavy game caliber sporting rifles of .350 and up when engaging enemy snipers who were well dug in behind brick or stone walls or behind steel loophole shields.
The extra punch made a lot of difference in those circumstances.

[John 242]

Multigunner-
.416 Barrett?
Pretty cool...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.416_Barrett

[newcastter]

I actually saw a gun the military was using that was interchangable from a .338 to a .308 by changing the barrel and bolt, this is kinda what stemmed the question, after that I made the decision my next gun would be one of the two or something similiar.
I have a 7mm Rem Mag so when I saw the .338 Lapua rnd my shoulder cringed.

[John 242]

A buddy of mine asked what rifle he should buy for long range rifle shooting. I recommended a .308 bolt gun because they’re cheap, economical to shoot and readily available. Instead, he bought a Barrett in .338 Lapua.

He quickly found it very expensive to feed. He bought the necessary equipment to begin handloading, started shooting at 1000-yard rifle matches and never looked back. The thing is, his wife’s family is quite wealthy and he can indulge in expensive hobbies. He still shoots the gun, but not as often as he used to. He is currently serving as a Drill Sergeant and doesn’t have a lot of spare time.

I think my advice was pretty valid, but he had the money and the desire to master the more powerful rifle and wouldn't have been satisfied.

[newcastter]

A buddy of mine asked what rifle he should buy for long range rifle shooting. I recommended a .308 bolt gun because they’re cheap, economical to shoot and readily available. Instead, he bought a Barrett in .338 Lapua.

He quickly found it very expensive to feed. He bought the necessary equipment to begin handloading, started shooting at 1000-yard rifle matches and never looked back. The thing is, his wife’s family is quite wealthy and he can indulge in expensive hobbies. He still shoots the gun, but not as often as he used to. He is currently serving as a Drill Sergeant and doesn’t have a lot of spare time.

I think my advice was pretty valid, but he had the money and the desire to master the more powerful rifle and wouldn't have been satisfied.

Oh trust me I am def going for the .308 now to start on searching for the right one.
I cast,swage and reload all to save money to be able to shoot more I am not about to pay $5 a rnd for any gun!!!

[Doc Highwall]

Take a look at the Savage single shot Palma gun in 308 Winchester. With the slower twist it will shoot the cast bullets better, and still let you shoot the 155-156 grain bullets used in Palma shooting.

[oscarflytyer]

+1 on the 6.5 x 55, or a 260 Rem, depending on what your goal is. The SD on the .264 bullets are phenomenal

The 300 Win Mag would be another option.

Neither is going to stomp YOU as bad as I understand the 338 Lapua will (never shot one...). 300 will provide a small edge beyond the 308 in long range energy/ballistics. And IIRC the 6.5/260 will match or exceed 308 LR ballistics, but probably not energy...

As always, just depends on what you really want to accomplish... FWIW - Chris Kyle shot primarily a 300 WM. And I am kinda biased to both the 300 and 6.5!

[DCM]

I have had my butt kicked by the 6.5/284 enough times to know that the mathematical advantage of shooting a cartridge with the recoil equivalent of the 375H&H is not worth while!

The 6.5/284 is a heck of a cartridge that helps the accuracy of the shooter tremendously!

[Matthew 25]

I love a 6.5x55 also, and am intrigued by the 6.5/284 for sure.
But who can argue with a 308? A Rem 700 varmint or police with a Jewel trigger and 1/2 way decent scope will get you to sub 1" groups in short order.
You might be able to game it up and do better with another gun or caliber, but you will never go wrong with the 700 in 308.

But...if I was going to shoot cast over 500 yards it would be through a 45-70.

[dk17hmr]

I like the idea of a Lapua but everything about it is expensive. A 308 is cheap to shoot but its a little on the light side for 1000 + shooting. It will do it very well but you almost have to run 155gr at max velocities to get anything more than 1000 out of it.

I love my 300wsm running 200gr smk's at 2835fps, its fairly cheap to feed and does everything I want it to. It drops to subsonic at 1500 yards and should in theory act alot like a 300 whisper at that range.

The thing about long range guns is weight and a brake arent a negative. Seing your hits is always a postive.

[Splatter]

If you intend on long range hunting, you'd be hard pressed to beat the .300WinMag, but the .338RUM or Edge will do it, at a (large) fraction of the cost of the Lapua (which BTW is not pronounced La-pooh-ah, it's Lop-Wah or Lawp-Wah).
If paper is all you are thinking about, a fast twist .223 and Heavy VLDs will stay supersonic past 1000m.
Or the 6mm BR or variants (dasher, etc).
I love my 6.5-'06 (same ballistics as the 6.5-284) but if you shoot lots, you'll be chewing-up barrels. Best accuracy is gone by 1000 rounds and by 1500, it won't shoot into 1MOA. My 6.5 is about to get it's 3rd barrel. I'm really starting to think about a .260 or maybe a 6.5x57AI to gain a bit more life at the expense of the flat shooting.

[ilcop22]

Of the two the OP listed, .308. The .338 Lapua is a novelty round for people with too much money. Unless you're in the military and engaging targets at great distances, there's no need to spend the cash. Though if you're hunting, I'd suggest the .30-06 - my favorite cartridge. :smile:

[NickSS]

I have done a lot of long range shooting when I was younger and have some idea of what works and what does not at longer ranges. A 308 is a wonderful cartridge and it is easy to shoot it well. Balistically it starts to run out of gas past 800 yards or so. At 1000 yards it is generally subsonic and not as accurate as desired. Out to 800 meters or so it is great though. A lot of 1000 yard shooters liked either the 7mm Rem Mag or 300 win mag for the extra velocity and both rounds are pretty good at that range winning lots of matches at Camp Perry during the last bunch of years. I personally used a 30-06 for 1000 yard matches as I could get my bullets there super sonic and the ammo cost me less. I however, was never a top competitor but a middle of the pack shooter. Now in the snipers world the really long range shooters are going for the 50 BMG, 416 Barret and 338 Lapua but they want a round that not only is good for long range kills but can also destroy hard targets as well as people at ranges in excess of 1000 yards. You do not see those rounds in target shooting competition. If you are mostly going to shoot at 500 meters to 1000 meters and if for hunting you are limiting yourself to deer sized animals a 308 will serve you well and if you want more power go to any one of the 7 or 30 cal magnums.

[kenyerian]

I vote for the 25-06. Flatter shooting than 308. recoli is very managable and after mastering it than move up . A great gun for Antelope.

[Ed in North Texas]

If you really want a magnum (I've always wanted a .375 H&H, just never had even a tiny bit of need for one), I'd like to suggest rounds much closer to the .338 Lapua (than the .308 Win), yet far cheaper to buy components and loaded rounds

1. .300 Win Mag.

2. 8mm Remington Mag

3. .338 Win Mag

The last two can come within 200 fps with equivalent (.338 Win) or 5 grains less (8mm @ 220 grains vs 225 grains) weight bullets. All are far easier on the wallet, the .300 and 8mm much easier on the wallet in brass and bullet costs (obviously boolits are not a consideration in the cost, or velocity analysis).

As others have pointed out, you have more choices than just .308 or .338 Lapua.

Ed

[scb]

http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr236/scb2008/100_1245.jpg
338 Edge and 308 Win.

With this new Accurate mould:
http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr236/scb2008/341310a.jpg

and $5.00/ lb WC872 powder, I think I'll be able to shoot the Edge pretty cheaply.
And yea they're made from 300 ultra mag brass (not 338) .

[IIJSavoy]

Here's food for thought...

The US military chose to stick with the .300 Win Mag for the new xm2010 build, replaces the M24 in 7.62/.308... Found the .338LM more difficult to teach plus cost. Still keeping the Cal.50 as well.

[bowfin]

My vote would be either the .300 Winchester Magnun or the 6.5-.284, unless money is no object.

Talk of having a 1,000 yard rifle would mean having a 1,000 yard range, which in a lot of places is harder to come by than either the rifle or ammunition.

[CMPShooter]

Actually, the 30-06 might make more sense at 1,000 yds. than the .308:
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2011/04/cartridges-sibling-rivalry-308-vs-30-06.html
Some knowledgeable info on long range shooting with the .308 including recommended bullets for 1,000 yds.:
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2011/07/cartridges-308-heavy-bullet-conundrum.html

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

I really like the 338 Edge. According to the reloading data I have seen that I trust, it is less than 100fps behind the Lapua from equal length barrels.

I have an early accu-trigger 112BVSS that was once a 7 Rem Mag. It got rechambered to 7STW about a month after I bought it. I stick about half an ice cream scoop of 870 in the case, in front of the 162gr Sierra HPBT match bullets. It stays super to about 1400yds. I have trouble seeing that far even thru a scope.

Rich

[GabbyM]

30-06 or an Ackley Improved.

30-06 AI is a lot more gun than a 308 Win and not much more money to shoot. Just a few grains more powder. Compared to the over bore magnums it’s efficient. With some of the new powders you could reach the 3,000 fps range with 178 grain bullets without stretching much.

[rjathon]

I used to live in MT and did a lot of 1000 yd shooting. I started with a 50 bmg and it did great. I then went to 300 Win Mag in a single shot that let me load VLD bullets at the proper length and it did almost as well. It had a 28" barrel and a muzzle break and was much easier to deal with that the 33lb 50 cal.

With a good range finder, computer, and then actually firing and recording scope settings anything that stays supersonic to 1000 yds will get the job done. The biggest problem is dealing with wind drift.

The .308 Win with VLD bullets loaded with the bullets where they belong can do it but may be too long to work in a short magazine. A 6.5x55 with heavy VLDs does it easily and does it with low recoil and reasonable wind drift. The 6 BR with 105 VLDs worked ok.

The amazing cartridge that was flatter shooting than the 300 Win Mag and worked great was the 25'06 with a JLK 108 gr VLD. It only required a 1 in 10 twist, had low recoil, and with a long barrel 3400 fps was attainable. Besides busting rocks at long range it was a phenomenal deer bullet. With a high chest shot it turned the chest cavity to slush.

One last note shooting to 800 yds is a very long way yet much, much easier than 1000. There a lowly 250 savage with the 108 JLK works fine with low recoil and better barrel life. It makes a sweet long range fun gun.

Russ

[rockrat]

Go with the 338 edge, get a set of BT snipers 338 swage dies and make your own 300gr bullets, IIRC, out of 30 carbine brass!!

[BT Sniper]

The edge is easy. Neck up a 300 RUM or neck down a 375RUM, stoke it with a healthy dose of H-1000 and a 300 grain Sierra MK @ 2825 FPS and your good to go for LONG range shooting IMOP.

You should check out LongRangeHunting.com This very same question comes up there a lot. I'm sure there are severial great calibers but IMOP the edge is a better option then the 338 Lapua on a cost stand point and ballisticly they are nearly identical.

I have an edge built on a simple Savage 110 action. I run it as single shot. I enjoy shooting it more then a 300WM running on RL-22. Edge is a big push rather then the sharp kick of the 300wm IMOP.

Took my first Elk at 530 yrds with it. DRT! have a blast shooting milk jugs out to 1k and I get typical groups like this quite often at 100yrds

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1060168-2.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/338cannon.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/meand09bull.jpg

Shot him across this canyon
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/viewfromshot.jpg

Can actually see him in the above picture :)
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/bulldown-1.jpg

But enough about my elk hunting and the edge. Get them both and go shooting! :)

BT

[Just Duke]

http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr236/scb2008/100_1245.jpg
338 Edge and 308 Win.

With this new Accurate mould:
http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr236/scb2008/341310a.jpg

and $5.00/ lb WC872 powder, I think I'll be able to shoot the Edge pretty cheaply.
And yea they're made from 300 ultra mag brass (not 338) .

Where do you those moulds?

[scb]

Where do you those moulds?

Where do you (get?) those moulds?

http://www.accuratemolds.com/

http://www.accuratemolds.com/catalog.php?page=2

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=34-310A-D.png

[W.R.Buchanan]

I was going to say .308 just cuz you could afford to shoot it enough to actually be able to hit something at 1000 yards. The .338 Lapua is just too expensive.

BUT,,, that .338 Edge looks pretty appealing especially with the Accurate cast boolit mould. I doubt that BT Sniper has over $6-700 in that rifle without the scope especially if the gun was .338 win mag to begin with. Thus only needing a rechamber. Kind of a poormans Lapua.

You will need a $1000 + scope in order to see well enough to hit anything at the distances you could cover with this gun.

If you shot mostly cast with the surplus powder, and only used hi-dollar bullets when it really mattered you could shoot just as cheaply as My .308 with recycled bullets and IMR4895. Also you would not be wearing out the barrel as with Jbullets. The barrel in a .338 Lapua rifle is good for about 1000-maybe 1500 rounds and then it's toast. CAst boolits would extend this number to indefinate.

The cast boolit will still go 1000 yards, they just take longer to get there. With the one zero on the gun there would just be holdovers and windage to calculate, and I'm sure you'll have a PDA in the mix by this time anyway so this is non issue. You just recalc with the new BC of the boolit and FPS and it tells you the holdovers for all ranges. You don't even change the scope.

I have been studying the Magpul "Art of the Precision Rifle" course that my Bro in law gave me. And once you are educated and have the right equipment 1000 yards is pretty easy. In the second disc IE: 2 of 5 They were hitting targets at 1225 yards with a .308 consistantly and later a hit on one at 1750 ish still with a .308. 3 of 4 students had .308's, one had a .300Win Mag. Nobody was at a disadvantage. You could see the bullet traces thru the mirage and the shots looked like big giant curveballs from a major league pitcher. Pretty cool stuff!!!

I highly recommend you looking into getting a copy of the Magpul course. The guy who does the course is Todd Hobnett and I saw him on a sniper show on the Military Channel last night he was training military sniper instructors. It is 10 hours long and on 5 CD's. You add this course to the right equipment and nobody is safe.

This guy talks alot and talks super technical alot more, and he doesn't stutter or hum haw one bit. IE he knows exactly what he is talking about !!! I don't impress easily when it comes to technical babbling, and I assure you when somebody knows his stuff, it shows up in his plain explainations of every answer to every question, without hesitation to consider his words. This guy is such an instructor. His school is in West Texas. He is "that good"

I would not volunteer to be shot at by these guys!

Randy

[rockrat]

To throw another wrench in to your decision making brain cells, the 6.5-06. Just a little more than the 6.5 Swede.

[runnin lead]

Someone previously mentioned a Palma Rifle.The longer barrel of the palma rifle makes a diference in staying sonic at 1,000 yds. What ever you choose keep a l o n g barrel in mind.
Something to think about.

[Skrenos]

Check out http://www.youtube.com/user/mag30th

Dont discount surplus guns and the cartridges equivalent to .308 power... I mean, this thread IS in the "Military Rifles" section.

[tuckerdog]

muzzleblast recoil and cost of the lapua are high. unless you are able to shoot it a whole bunch getting 1000yd accy would be difficult. 300 winmag would suit your needs quite well without the overkill. if you just want a big boomer not many people have go for it.

[Just Duke]

Where do you (get?) those moulds?

http://www.accuratemolds.com/

http://www.accuratemolds.com/catalog.php?page=2

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=34-310A-D.png

Thanks you. :bigsmyl2:

[excess650]

The OP ALREADY HAS a 7mm Rem Mag, so the 308 would be a step backwards, IMO. Shoot as is or rechamber to 7mmSTW.

Already mentioned, the 300WinMag would be a good choice as would a 30/338 308 Norma Mag. I've seen some pretty amazing groups shot by a Rem 700 Sendero in 300 WhbyMag.

The more the thump from the front, the more that is going to be felt on the rear. Muzzle brakes are a big help, but so is lots of weight.

Personally, I dislike heavy hunting rifles. My heaviest is a 700BDL 7mm RemMag with Leupold 3.5-10x, but then again I'm not trying to shoot across canyons like is often done in the west or even northern Pa. I think my 700VS .308 too heavy to carry around.

Ridgway Rifle Club in NW Pa has a 500m silhouette range AND they shoot the long range benchrest varmint game. Rails at 850-1000 yards have crows, groundhogs, bobcats and coyotes respectively. A couple of us have knocked the coyotes off the rails with cast boolits from 30-06s.

[Just Duke]

and $5.00/ lb WC872 powder

Where would one find this powder?

[scb]

Where would one find this powder?

From a purchase 7-8 years ago. (sorry)

Still not too bad today tho.
http://www.gibrass.com/gunpowder.html

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/27944fa1c1766cf3c.jpg

[Just Duke]

From a purchase 7-8 years ago. (sorry)

Still not too bad today tho.
http://www.gibrass.com/gunpowder.html

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/27944fa1c1766cf3c.jpg


I believe he passed and his wife runs that now if my memory is correct. Real nice lady too.