38WC loaded hot in a 357mag?

[2ndAmendmentNut]

I have always thought a higher velocity WC load would be the perfect self defense load for all sorts of bad “fruit” and paper targets. I understand that a WC will generate greater friction in the bore and take up more case capacity compared to a SWC or other style bullet/boolit, but if one were to follow proper load techniques of starting low and working up cautiously is there any reason not to push a full WC faster then low velocity 38s? Any powder recommendations? Any firsthand experience loading WCs hot in 357 brass? I am mainly thinking of giving this a try so that my J-frames in 357 still pack a formidable load yet won’t have the wrist breaking snap that full house 357mags generate.

[Gray Fox]

If you want to try something with a wide meplat and normal case capacity, look at the Lee 158 RNFP. I think that the sharp edges of this wide meplat would do more tissue damage than a rounded edge 148 grain wadcutter. I got a 6 cavity mold last month and have cast over 1,000 already. I use the Hornady +P load data for a 158 jacketed in both my stainless J frame Chief's Special and my alloy +P rated 642. They shoot to point of aim and drop easily with a speed loader, something flush seated wadcutters tend not to do. This same boolit over a stout load of 2400 in a .357 case shoots great from my new 16" .357 Rossi carbine and feeds with no problem. I just wish that Lee would make this one as a GC mold, too, as it could be driven quite fast from the carbine. In the interim, I'm looking at Ranch Dog's new 175 GC mold for that purpose. Now if I could just cram that super wide Lee 300 RNFP into a .45 Auto Rim case I'd have a real up close and personal paper puncher in my 4" Mountain Gun. GF

[shooting on a shoestring]

As I type, my SP101 is loaded with hollow pointed 358091s over 14 grains of 2400. They get past 1325 fps. I'm a big fan of full house .357 wadcutters. I don't see why its even a question. I currently have 3 wadcutters and think they are perfect for .357s.

Wadcutters typically have 3 lube grooves (you don't have to use them all) and can carry more lube than a .357 will ever need. They give good neck tension so slow powders light well behind them. They have lots of bearing surface, are short for their weight, and have that beautiful full caliber meplat.

I even shoot them to 100 yards. Some folks claim they fly off in odd directions past 50 or 75 yards, but i haven't had that problem.

Work up your loads to be safe, but sure step on the gas. I have pushed 358091 and 358089 past 1500 fps in my 4 inch GP100. I also cast them 50/50 WWs to pure, or 98% pure and 2% tin. Some of them I drill 3/16 HPs in, and yes they shred milk jugs.

[subsonic]

Test it and see. I know that I will never use the hollow base wadcutters backwards... Can't hit anything with them and they penetrate poorly.

I read somewhere that full wadcutters tumble and veer off course in tissue. Take that FWIW and test it for yourself.

For the trouble and intended use, it seems just as easy to plunk down $20 for a box of something that meets FBI test protocol.:coffee:

[Multigunner]

I've read an old article demonstrating how to remove a .38 wadcutter bullet that had blown through and lodged in the bore when loaded too hot in a regular .38 Special revolver.
Could have been too soft. Whatever the cause one should take care. A un noticed blown through bullet stuck in the bore could end up causing a split barrel.

[Thin Man]

2nd A Nut,

You and I are thinking alike. For a long time I was looking for a full, or nearly full, bore diameter boolit profile for the various 38 revolvers I carry. SWC profiles were close, but not close enough. WC styles were farther away. These had to be seated deep and ate up case capacity so powder charges were reduced to keep pressures safe. Same for the hollow-base patterns. I knew there had to be something better but it took seeing the molds being offered for sale for me to scream... "that's IT!"

Look in CastPics. Start with Modern-Bond, patterns 358582 (150 gr.) and 359627 (160 gr.), then Lyman 358344 (150 gr.). Standard SWC mind-set, yet the nose above the crimp groove is straight and cylindrical. The nose about the crimp groove on both of the M-B patterns is identical, they differ in the length of the body inside the case. These boolits leave respectable case capacity when seated to the crimp groove, do not raise pressure like a WC since the nose is .001-2" smaller than bore diameter, thus can be driven at SWC speeds without showing pressure that a WC would generate. Best of all is the full, or nearly full caliber meplat. Doubt that these could be used in any lever gun, but would be interesting to try (I may get around to that some day).

I currently own both of the Modern-Bond patterns, have passed on the Lyman as it duplicates the lighter M-B. When fired from a S&W model 14 (6") the 150 gr. boolit always produces a tighter group than the 160 gr. profile, waiting for testing in other firearms. As for powder charges, I am still working on load development. Since we are using the equal of a SWC pattern, established loads for SWC boolits make a starting point. Since I bought these molds I have seen several more of the same molds offered for sale, usually on ebay.

As a side thought, these patterns have been offered in 32, 44 and 45 calibers by the various makers over the years. I have a 44-180 that is a hoot in a Charter Bulldog, also a small Taurus.

Take a look at these patterns and see if this is what you are wanting. I have as much, probably more, confidence in this style as anything else on the market. Good luck with your research.

Thin Man

[StrawHat]

I've read an old article demonstrating how to remove a .38 wadcutter bullet that had blown through and lodged in the bore when loaded too hot in a regular .38 Special revolver.
Could have been too soft. Whatever the cause one should take care. A un noticed blown through bullet stuck in the bore could end up causing a split barrel.

I would believe the article was dealing with the hollow based WCs that are usually made of nearly pure lead. Too fast and the base can be left behind.

I use DEWC I cast a bit harder, about 20/1 and while I only push them to 900 fps, they make terrific game loads and hit like a sledge. Faster than that, I don't need but it would be interesting.

[chickenstripe]

You wouldn't have to worry about the base separating on that one....

http://www.pennbullets.com/38/38230tndrhd.html

[para45lda]

Not to be a butthole but just what exactly is the FBI test protocol?

[wildphilhickup]

Try a HBWC loaded backwards. A great HP round!

[Curly James]

Gray Fox is on the money. A Lee RNFP cast a little soft and loaded over a decent charge of 2400 is a great load if you dont want or have a HP boolit. I have been crimping a Hornady gas check on the boolits bevel base and pushing then close to 1300 FPS. Quite accurate and a good load in my 686. The wide meplat on the Lee boolit makes nice round cut holes in an IDPA target, almost like a wadcutter.

[Larry Gibson]

LE agency I worked for had a 4 cavity Lyman 358495 WC mould. I cast up several thousand of them out of WWs and shot them out of 2 Ruger BHs over 6.5 gr Unique in magnum cases. Was right at 1200 fps out of the 4 5/8" NMBH and quite accurate. I also used some loaded over 2400 (don't remember the load but it 105% loading density) and it was deadly on critters at 1390 fps out of the 6 1/2" OMBH and I put down several deer with it. That was the quickest killing "hard" cast bullet I used in the /357 and rivaled the SWCs out of the 41 and 44 magnums.

Larry Gibson

[9.3X62AL]

It has been at least 15 years since I've cast a wadcutter boolit, in any caliber. I have fired a few of Buckshot's castings in the 38 S&W, but that has been it. I bought the SWC/Keith mantra in its entirety, and to date haven't been disappointed with the results.

I have a couple interesting WC designs, both of which have a button end that is undersized and can extend into the revolver's throat a short distance. In 38/357 is Lyman #358432, 160 grainer--and #313492, a 93 grainer to service the 32 revos. Both of these moulds need a warm-up, methinks. It has just been too long since I've fired wadcutters in any number.