Buffalo Classic

[161]

I found a LEE 459-500-R3 mold and started thinking about a 45-70 BC. Anybody PP for one of those?

[Swampman]

They are awesome rifles.

[Arctic Blues]

Yeah...

I think about em a lot :)
I got enough projects goin on at the moment tho so,

Enjoy and Good Lock!

[giz189]

Yeah, pp is all I have shot in mine. I use BP though.

[161]

Yeah, pp is all I have shot in mine. I use BP though.

I've read they have a short throat and wont chamber long boolits. Is that true with your's? I ordered one yesterday and cast a bunch of LEE 405s and 500s.

[nicholst55]

I've read they have a short throat and wont chamber long boolits. Is that true with your's? I ordered one yesterday and cast a bunch of LEE 405s and 500s.

They do have very short throats, but that's fairly easy to resolve. A few twists with a neck and throat reamer will eliminate that short throat.

[Swampman]

The Graybeard Outdoors Handi Rifle Forum, has a throat reamer you can rent for $20.00 and it's easy to do.

[geargnasher]

The Lee 500-3R has a rebated nose base, it will poke way up into the rifling on any gun with a .452-3"-ish bore, depending on how your mould is cut. The trick is to size them to just over bore diameter (I used a Lee .452" push through for my gun) and patch back up to just over groove diameter (mine come out .460" after the patch dries and I size them base-first in a .459" die). The Lyman 505-grain torpedo-nosed boolit will work well in short throats, too, if the bore-riding part fits the gun. Just use the wet-patching method and let the patch extend 1/16" or so over the front band, it will shrink to fit when it dries and give a nice taper to the patch to fit into the leade. I've had good luck in .45/90 seating the Lee boolit so the patched part where it breaks over the front band seats snug into the leade when chambered. JPW or any soft boolit lube makes great patch lube.

Gear

[nanuk]

do the BC's have the same "Generous" bore/groove diameters that the standard rifles have?

my H&R has .455/.459 or so.... I've yet to find a mould that drops at .455/.456

but I do have hidden somewhere one of those lyman 457121 that I understand was designed to drop at .456 for the whitworth rifle.... I'll need to cast with that one this spring when it warms a bit.

[geargnasher]

Nanuk, get a Lee .452" push-through sizer and hone it out with emery paper, oil, a split dowel rod, and a drill. Or order one the size you need from Buckshot.

Gear

[giz189]

I've read they have a short throat and wont chamber long boolits. Is that true with your's? I ordered one yesterday and cast a bunch of LEE 405s and 500s. Hey 161. That is true. Mine was the first rifle I had ever tried to pp for. I had all sorts of problems from the cartridges not seating (to long) to bulging the brass case so much it looked pregnant. I called Buffalo Arms and talked to Dave Gullo and he suggested a coal of 2.500 length with the 450 dia boolits I was using. Using anything from 440 to about 443 will allow you about any coal you want. I was using 9lb onionskin paper. Good luck with your rifle.

[161]

Mostly posting because I learned how to post pictures. But thes are the LEE 459-500-R3 And LEE 457-405F I been PPing.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_166694f1a118a17834.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3530)

[geargnasher]

I word of advice from the voice of experience: Take some mineral spirits and completely remove all traces of that tumble lube. If the boolit is sticky at all, the patch won't jettison properly at the muzzle and little flags of paper will remain stuck, which has a negative effect boolit aerodynamics and ultimately, accuracy. Use the tumble lube, or really any sort of waxy lube, on the patch after wrapping and drying.

Here's one I had laying on my desk, it's a reject because I didn't position the patch quite far enough forward on the ogive. It's plain notebook paper. I smear Johnson's Paste Wax on them and let it dry, then size .459" before sending them downrange:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_89094f1b5313b6d38.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3543)

Gear

[6.5 mike]

Nanuk, my lee 405 fb drops at 0.455 on the bands if this helps any.

[161]

Yea I haven't sized them yet. Then I clean the LLA off before a patch. Do boolits that have been post sized to .459 shoot better than ones that are patched to .459.
Thanks
161

[geargnasher]

No need to use LLA to size. Just roll the dry boolits on a case lube pad and fire 'em through the sizer. You only need to lube the bearing surfaces anyway, and if you use RCBS II case lube you can just leave the residue on the boolit before patching, it doesn't affect anything.

Gear

[nanuk]

Nanuk, get a Lee .452" push-through sizer and hone it out with emery paper, oil, a split dowel rod, and a drill. Or order one the size you need from Buckshot.

Gear

Gear, that is my plan. I have recently gotten a .452 lee die.

another option may be to use a 308W sizing die cut off if my honing doesn't work well.

[161]

No need to use LLA to size. Just roll the dry boolits on a case lube pad and fire 'em through the sizer. You only need to lube the bearing surfaces anyway, and if you use RCBS II case lube you can just leave the residue on the boolit before patching, it doesn't affect anything.

Gear

Thanks for the tip, I through them in a coffee can with just enough Mineral Spirits to cover them and it came right off.
161

[John Boy]

my H&R has .455/.459 or so....

Bore spec's on my H&R Buffalo Classic - not the early NEF rifles
•Bore – Actual 0.4525 and 0.454 grooves

nanuk, big difference in groove diameters :confused:

[windrider919]

Yea I haven't sized them yet. Then I clean the LLA off before a patch. Do boolits that have been post sized to .459 shoot better than ones that are patched to .459.
Thanks
161

Now there is a question seldom asked but one that should be one of the first items 'tested' on every rifle. Because SOME rifles demand sized PP and others shoot a sized PP so badly that you would miss the barn walls while locked inside. What makes it hard to tell are all the other variables you are juggling at the beginning of load development.

I have a theory that the height of the rifling makes a difference....'shallow' rifling do NOT size the patch...'deeper' rifling DO size.

I know that rifling should be to specification of .004 over bore ( x2 = .008 ) but have you ever noticed that some appears 'shallower' and others 'deeper' when looking down the bore?

.458 Shilen match shallow groove - Best not sized

.221 Fireball shallow - best not sized

Marlin 336 / 35 Remington with Microgroove barrel - best not sized

Remington 308 deep groove - best SIZED

30-30 bolt - deep grooved - best sized

45-70 trapdoor, DEEP grooved - best sized with SMOKELESS, Best NOT sized with BP

Anybody else have similar experience?

[giz189]

Bore spec's on my H&R Buffalo Classic - not the early NEF rifles
•Bore – Actual 0.4525 and 0.454 grooves

nanuk, big difference in groove diameters :confused: John Boy, how does your BC shoot? What do you patch your final diameter at?